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Is it because you are opposed to people explaining to you that you sin and need redemption? I mean, even liberal churches teach this.No, it doesn't offend me.
I feel better not going to church. I just don't feel into it, there was nothing edifying to me about going and listening to a tale of sin, guilt, and redemption that had little to do with my life, and I really felt little or no connection to God at church. The further I get away from church, the more I realize how psychically draining the experience really was. I guess from a Lutheran perspective, I'm a Christian due to my baptism and my feelings don't change that... and that's fine with me.
Is it because you are opposed to people explaining to you that you sin and need redemption? I mean, even liberal churches teach this.
I am able to empathize and know exactly what you are saying. There was never any involvement in religion all though I was baptized at 19 because of my mothers insistence. The preaching prior to the baptism was listened to and the decision was made that there was nothing wrong in accepting that a man Jesus died for my sins and rose again.I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe. Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life. I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in.
I suppose I've arrived at this place realizing I have a lot of disgust. Politically, I don't fit in with either left or right. I believe strongly in civil liberties, I'm anti-authoritarian and don't believe in telling people what is the best way to live, because I believe those sorts of questions are best answered by the individual. I'm very unhappy with how Christians have handled the LGBT issue- it goes against my live and let live attitude, and my sensitivity towards my fellow human beings.
Most of all, I believe in compassion- that is my measure of somebody's morality, and I'm not sure this is really a Christian value at the end of the day. Compassion is more important than all the creeds in the world, and I'd mark somebody as closer to the Kingdom who had it, than somebody of faith who did not. I don't see many Christians willing to go the extra mile to understand somebody different from them. I see a lot of worship of religious tradition and orthodoxy over caring about real human beings.
We really don't know God, he's an incomprehensible mystery. The classical western theology is absurd, even ridiculous, and can't be taken seriously by intelligent people. Believing in an all-powerful benevolent God is simply absurd. This is properly the "Hidden God" spoken of by Luther. The God that brings anxiety rather than comfort, or more often, delusional projections (the angry God of many authoritarians). God is hidden and not seen. So, how can you love the God you don't see when you don't love the brother you do see? (the whole point of James passage is relevant, denouncing religiosity for its own sake) So the way I see it, Christians, as followers of Jesus, should be a humanistic religion more like Confucianism or Taoism, with God and his will left a mystery, and focused on the human predicament.
You're not the only person with Asperger's. Our church has at least 4 people that are on the spectrum. The two adults are leaders, and the teens are moving in that direction. I have some tendencies in that direction myself.I don't particularly like hearing it. It's like going up to somebody that's been mugged and reminding them of what a horrible human being they are because they walked on the grass or drove 5 mph over the speed limit. It comes across as the actions of a bully.
It could also be I have Asperger's. I don't resonate with the same things most other people do.
I don't particularly like hearing it. It's like going up to somebody that's been mugged and reminding them of what a horrible human being they are because they walked on the grass or drove 5 mph over the speed limit. It comes across as the actions of a bully.
If you feel like you already have most sins under control, perhaps a church that stresses social justice might be more up your line. In fact the more I think about it, the more I suspect this is a good suggestion for you.
I am basically Lutheran in my views on this matter. "Sin control" is pointless, like playing "whack a mole", hit one sin and another pops up. That can leave you with a sense of despair in the end, a terrible place to be.
And I don't believe in a God that keeps score.
I think I would have liked a more social justice oriented church. I have read alot about liberation theology, and it makes sense to me. But its hard to find one where I live, where that is something that is important.
So go join the ELCA. With various denominations to choose from I think you'll inevitably find one that fits. Also consider specific churches. I've gone to several different PCA churches over the years and they're all very different.Liberation theology is not just Catholic, at least not anymore. In fact the grandfather of that theology, Jurgen Moltmann, was Protestant (I think he was a member of the EKD in the Reformed tradition). It became associated with Catholicism because in Latin America a lot of intellectuals were looking for a theology that made sense of the inequality found there. But the original impetus was responding to the suffering and horrors of Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.
There are some Lutheran theologians that are involved in liberation theology and I would say it has an influence in the ELCA. But, the local Lutheran synod doesn't seem very influenced by it, beyond how it has shaped common Lutheran liturgical materials.
So go join the ELCA. With various denominations to choose from I think you'll inevitably find one that fits. Also consider specific churches. I've gone to several different PCA churches over the years and they're all very different.
Where in Florida is the diocese of Sydney? The "red" or "blue" part of the state? That probably affects things. Also, how exactly they did the church react in a way you didn't like? I ask because I think it would help know what your biggest hang-ups are.I have attended an ELCA church in the past but the congregation is mostly made of elderly people and the pastor is not interested in liberation theology. In fact he said it was Marxism. He also is fairly conservative about a great many things. He grew up in the LCMS, so maybe that has influenced him a lot. It's still a lot better than going to a lot of churches around here, but its just the same basic message being softpedalled.
Your experience in the PCA is fairly typical, in my experience mainline denominations are not monolithic. There's a great deal of variance in preaching and teaching, and what region of the country you live in has a lot to do with what message you will hear from the pulpit.
It sounds like GraceandPeace, for instance, is going to a good Episcopal church that fits well with the general mood of the national church, but down here Episcopalians are mostly aligned with the Diocese of Sydney, which are more like conservative Presbyterians or Southern Baptists in many ways. I was pretty disappointed after how they handled a gay couple wanting to baptize their son (they were from New York state and moved to Florida), and that turned me off from wanting to attend.
Where in Florida is the diocese of Sydney? The "red" or "blue" part of the state? That probably affects things. Also, how exactly they did the church react in a way you didn't like? I ask because I think it would help know what your biggest hang-ups are.
Could you give some specifics with the rhetoric and whatnot? I have a good idea of what you don't like in a church, but I think it would be helpful for us all to have as many details as possible.The Diocese of Sydney is in Australia. Some conservative Anglican/Episcopalian provinces maintain closer ties with churches outside their provincial boundaries than they do with the national church, I don't care for the practice- it's not so much uncanonical as just distasteful.
The Diocese of Central Florida is also aligned with Trinity Divinity School, I believe it's up north in Ohio (?)... at any rate it's a very conservative institution that has limited influence in the Episcopal church. The theology has more in common with conservative Presbyterians and Baptists than mainstream Episopalians.
I listened to cringeworthy sermons at the cathedral. Steeped in Reformational rhetoric that felt as out-of-date as King James English. Just not interesting to me, or helpful. And the rituals of historic Christianity is more a sideshow to an evangelical focus I associate more with Baptist churches in the South. Don't even get me started on the charismatic congregations I visited, I really found them problematic.
Yes, but liberation theology was also very much anticipated by the famous American Lutheran pastor Walter Rauschenbusch and the "social gospel." Also, it is very much championed by Afro-American theologians such as James Cone at Union Theological Seminary and also Dr. Martin Luther King.Liberation theology is not just Catholic, at least not anymore. In fact the grandfather of that theology, Jurgen Moltmann, was Protestant (I think he was a member of the EKD in the Reformed tradition). It became associated with Catholicism because in Latin America a lot of intellectuals were looking for a theology that made sense of the inequality found there. But the original impetus was responding to the suffering and horrors of Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.
There are some Lutheran theologians that are involved in liberation theology and I would say it has an influence in the ELCA. But, the local Lutheran synod doesn't seem very influenced by it, beyond how it has shaped common Lutheran liturgical materials.
Could you give some specifics with the rhetoric and whatnot? I have a good idea of what you don't like in a church, but I think it would be helpful for us all to have as many details as possible.
Catholic-bashing is annoying, I agree. Churches should not be in the business of bashing each other. That sounds like something redneck hicks in backwoods places would do, but I guess it's not limited to them.Well, the preaching was often presented in a way to show Protestant doctrines in contrast to Catholic ones. Not overtly but anybody with a brain could see it. I just found it not very useful. The problems and questions people face or ask now days are not necessarily the same as the 18th century. A lot of the priests at the cathedral had their training at the local conservative Reformed seminary.
Probably the best preaching was from a priest who was from New York originally - had been everywhere, and spent a lot of time working in an Anglo-Catholic parish. But he retired. He was a conservative sort and we had talked and he knew where I was coming from at least, and he had life experiences to his credit. The rest of the priests had too much of an insular background to really be somebody I could consider speaking with authority.
I think the congregation was the sort of type that were just Episcopalian out of habit, socially conservative, that sort of thing. Maybe it was relevant to them to hear the same stuff decade after decade.
Most of the best Episcopalian preachers I have heard have been women. Which is too bad because down here several of the churches don't allow women to preach.
And, in case you don't know, at most larger Episcopalian churches, preaching duties are rotated between the priests. So you do not always get consistent messages, especially because its not uncommon in Episcopalian churches for clergy to come from completely different theological perspectives or ways of doing church. It just depends on what the vestry or bishop wants, sometimes they just don't care.
Catholic-bashing is annoying, I agree. Churches should not be in the business of bashing each other. That sounds like something redneck hicks in backwoods places would do, but I guess it's not limited to them.
I didn't even know you were "allowed", socially, to be a conservative episcopalian. I use quotations because I assume it would be nominally permitted but quietly discoursged.
Churches are not college campuses and can't afford "diversity" on purpose.
For my family, the pastor pretty much IS the church (shouldn't be that way, but that's how it is). How are you supposed to determine if the doctrine is sound (or just to your liking) if the pastor changes each time?
I do have a church that I go to and my family is Christian. The church I go to is not one I like though as much now. There is almost no community and people just go to go I think.
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