I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore

[the last child]

No one has to give me "accreditation." I don't insist that I am on a higher plane of knowledge. I am on my plane of knowledge and awareness. I can't pretend to hold any beliefs that are inconsistent with my own experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition. To do otherwise would plunge me into a constant state of cognitive dissonance, which is where I'd be if I remained within "Christianity." My experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition - and specifically my study of the Jesus of the Gospels, the only Jesus we have - tell me that "Christianity" is pretty much an unsalvageable 180-degree perversion of what Jesus was talking about and that the only sane response for me is to abandon that ship and work out my own salvation with fear and trembling. To me this quite obvious - screamingly obvious - but if your experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition tell you something else … or you choose to rely instead on the pronouncements of supposed authority figures whom you deem to have sufficient "accreditation" … or even if you choose to live in a state of cognitive dissonance for reasons that are sufficient to you, this is irrelevant to me. I am not "judging" you. I am sharing what my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition tell me.

So that’s all just a fancy way of saying, “ I don’t really have any besides myself.” Well thank you for at least answering me. I was starting to wonder if you could even see my posts lol

 

[bekkilyn]

What is wrong with Christianity is the same that is wrong with people in general. Doesn't mean we all become hermits and shun fellowship and worship with others.

 

[Swan7]

Look, I’ve been where you are and I’m what they call a Millennial. I’ve learned a LOT growing up. I don’t claim being a Christian all my life like I used to anymore because I had no idea what Christianity was about.
My parents were not “fully” Christian either so guess where I learned it from.

What I’m saying is we all come from different paths of life, some harder than others, until we find Life, the Truth and the Only Way there is to that Life.
I didn’t come fully to Christ until August 14, 2014. Only from then on do I call myself a Christian because I make a conscious decision to follow Christ everyday.

What you have described in your OP is already described in the Bible - God’s Word. Has God given up? No, not at all. So why should you? Will you follow the world because you are fed up of false Christianity or will you allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in this messed up life we live? Let me tell you I would have ended my life a long time ago if it weren’t for God.

Be uplifted and be encouraged by the Word of God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I wasn't suggesting he leave Christianity...just the organized church.

Yes but this was coupled with abandoning the voice of the Holy Spirit within and just going with conscience. This means choosing to no longer take orders from the Boss and doing you own thing because others have got it wrong.

 

[the last child]

Those you have cited postured themselves as leaders and attempted to start movements on the basis of their peculiar understandings. I have no interest in being anyone's leader or starting any movement. I am simply going my own way. I am under no illusion that the Titanic of "Christianity" is going to change its path. On the judgment day, I will simply say "Well, I did my best to distance myself from that which seemed to me to be a complete perversion of what You were actually talking about and to follow the path that I believed You were actually talking about."

So NO, my decision does not "scare" me, and I do indeed "deny the resemblance."

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14, NIV.

Does that scare YOU? Or is "Christianity" the narrow road and small gate in your opinion?

Fair enough, so besides the resemblance that you deny, you have no interest in leadership or starting a new institution of Christianity, even though u feel like the present one should be torn down and rebuilt. As for dragging me into the equation, that’s par for the course of defensive postures but I’ll bite. I am not afraid. I am not the one ranting. And if I was ranting, I don’t think I would be talking to you, bc you are already ranting about the same thing. Just saying.

 

[AvisG]

You do realize that yours is just ONE VIEW, as opposed to 2 billion other Christians, and especially, God.

You're that confident that you're right ... and that everyone else is wrong ?

But you haven't visited 300,000 churches ... nor any reasonable sample of them ...

Christian to Christian, your post smacks of pride and judgementalism ... and that was not what Jesus was about ...

Just for grins, what exactly are you expecting in the church ... that you aren't seeing ?

I'm made very clear that my view is just my view. A number of others in this small sample have already agreed, so I guess you'll have to deduct them from the 2,000,000 you have lumped together. Are those 2,000,000 on the narrow path leading to the small gate, in your opinion?

I cannot follow a path other than the one that my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition dictate - simple as that. I will have no choice but to accept God's judgment on the path I have followed.

I don't need to visit 300,000 churches to reach a conclusion about "Christianity." If you think I do, then you have completely misunderstood what I believe I have pretty clearly stated.

I don't provide meaningful responses "just for grins" or humor people who say things like "just for grins."

 

[AvisG]

Fair enough, so besides the resemblance that you deny, you have no interest in leadership or starting a new institution of Christianity, even though u feel like the present one should be torn down and rebuilt. As for dragging me into the equation, that’s par for the course of defensive postures but I’ll bite. I am not afraid. I am not the one ranting. And if I was ranting, I don’t think I would be talking to you, bc you are already ranting about the same thing. Just saying.

Now don't cry, you'll make me cry too. My interest in "rebuilding" Christianity is no more and no less than "rebuilding" it within my own life - flushing "Christianity" and every vestige of it from my system and moving forward on the basis of what I believe Jesus was actually talking about. If you think "Christianity" is just fine as-is, or in need of only minor tweaking, or worth remaining a part of with all of its faults and flaws, this is entirely up to you. I will say for last time: I do not believe that "Christianity" is Christianity AT ALL.

 

[AvisG]

Yes but this was coupled with abandoning the voice of the Holy Spirit within and just going with conscience. This means choosing to no longer take orders from the Boss and doing you own thing because others have got it wrong.

You're not responding to me, but I will say: As I made clear on another thread - and as I recall, you agreed - I believe that for a Christian conscience and intuition are virtually indistinguishable from the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I at least am certainly NOT talking about "abandoning the voice of the Holy Spirit." Quite the contrary.

 

[Hammster]

You didn't cite any Scripture for your admonition to me for supposedly not citing any Scripture. Is that a problem?

The "No Scripture Game," like the "Proof Texting Game," is one I simply decline to play. If it fascinates you - please, keep playing it!

Okay.


Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
— 2 Peter 1:2-9

 

[Lost4words]

But today's churches are just like them ...

Not the same though

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Not the same though

On a literal level, they're not the same, but as to whether or not the 7 Churches 'metaphorically fit' various churches today, or they fit those belonging to centuries past ever since the Church was founded in the 1st century, has been a prophetic issue up for discussion for quite some time now ... (although I don't wish to enter that discussion here, of course! )

 

[Carl Emerson]

You're not responding to me, but I will say: As I made clear on another thread - and as I recall, you agreed - I believe that for a Christian conscience and intuition are virtually indistinguishable from the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I at least am certainly NOT talking about "abandoning the voice of the Holy Spirit." Quite the contrary.

Sorry Avis - I must have replied to the wrong post...

 

[Aldebaran]

Are you joking or did you MISS THE ENTIRE POINT??? My "local church" in the sense that you are talking about has amply demonstrated that it is NO DIFFERENT - and it has done this in multiple localities over many years. You're not talking to some neophyte observer here, but to a well-traveled veteran of "Christianity."

If you are a believer in Christ for your salvation and want to follow Him, then you are a Christian. Don't be ashamed to call yourself that because you don't like what others have done in His name. Be the description of Christianity you wish others would portray.

 

[Redwingfan9]

I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

A couple things here. First, we can't say that profit motive is a bad thing based on scripture. Jesus upholds freedom of contract after all. You used McDonald's as some example of greed but we all know what McDonald's is. It's a real estate company that sells hamburgers. We all know what we're getting when we go there and they make no bones about the fact that their business is for profit.

Therein lies the problem with the modern evangelical church, largely baptist in nature. It has becomes the pharissees and saducees, making up laws and turning the church into a place of profit. When Jesus overturned the money changers tables he wasn't railing against banks, he was railing against people who made money off the church. It was the high priest and his friends who were millionaires because they sold worship items and exchanged money at a handsome profit during those days. It was the use of the temple like that which outraged Jesus.

There is little doubt he is equally outraged at the snake oil salesmen to be found all over so-called christian tv and throughout the megachurches of this country. Their use of the church to make themselves rich bellies any number of heresies, largely used to scare people in order to get them to buy books or donate. (Pre-mil dispensationalism being an example) No wonder the state of the church is so poor.

 

[topher694]

When everyone else is the problem, the problem isn't everyone else.

 

[charsan]

Therein lies the problem with the modern evangelical church

This is the issue. The OP has come off sounding like he knows all about the Reformed Churches, Liturgical Churches, and other Church that he knows absolutely nothing about. I wish people (including myself) would think before they make an thread of what they are really talking about

 

[A Realist]

This means choosing to no longer take orders from the Boss and doing you own thing because others have got it wrong.

In your opinion.

 

[topher694]

This is the issue. The OP has come off sounding like he knows all about the Reformed Churches, Liturgical Churches, and other Church that he knows absolutely nothing about. I wish people (including myself) would think before they make an thread of what they are really talking about

Yep. The real reason for posting was to draw Christians into an argument so he could put them down and feel better about himself. Absolutely nothing new or special about that type of behavior.

 

[the last child]

Yep. The real reason for posting was to draw Christians into an argument so he could put them down and feel better about himself. Absolutely nothing new or special about that type of behavior.

lol I finally figured out what OP meant. Well, in all fairness no one tells you anything. And I didn’t want to sound like a dorky “noob” (as the kids would call me) by posting an interrupting broadcast to someone’s thread asking for clarification.

 

[the last child]

lol I finally figured out what OP meant. Well, in all fairness no one tells you anything. And I didn’t want to sound like a dorky “noob” (as the kids would call me) by posting an interrupting broadcast to someone’s thread asking for clarification.