I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore

[AvisG]

I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

 

[JohnAshton]

Fully understandable. I go to church to fellowship with friends and fellow believers, but I do not believe 'the church' itself does God's work. I like Community of Christ's effort to do 'missioning' but there more liberal chapels are doing SJW efforts than missioning. The Episcopal in town are all pastoral and no outreach whatsoever. And so on so with other denominations and sects.

 

[Hammster]

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

How is your local church different?

 

[AvisG]

How is your local church different?

Are you joking or did you MISS THE ENTIRE POINT??? My "local church" in the sense that you are talking about has amply demonstrated that it is NO DIFFERENT - and it has done this in multiple localities over many years. You're not talking to some neophyte observer here, but to a well-traveled veteran of "Christianity."

 

[brinny]

Have you prayed for your brothers and sisters in Christ, and for those with whom you may, as you describe, be "disgusted" with?

The Bible is very clear on our need to pray, especially for each other, for as it is written, the devil goes about seeking whom he may devour, and that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities in the spiritual realm.

ALL of what you described is written right in God's Word. Why would it shock or surprise any of us when we see what is described in God's Word, played out right before our very eyes?

And when we see it, what are we to do?

Hopefully it prompts us to pray even more fervently.

Amen?

In the meantime, WE are admonished to "fight the good fight", and to "run the race", and as we do so, to "pray without ceasing".

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." ~Jam 5:16

 

[bekkilyn]

So what are you going to do about it? What is your action plan?

 

[AvisG]

Have you prayed for your brothers and sisters in Christ, and for those with whom you may, as you describe, be "disgusted" with?

The Bible is very clear on our need to pray, especially for each other, for as it is written, the devil goes about seeking whom he may devour, and that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities in the spiritual realm.

I appreciate your sentiments, but what I'm talking about is SO PERVASIVE, so all-consuming, that it cannot reasonably be attributed to "the devil" or "principalities" unless the Holy Spirit is completely and utterly toothless and ineffectual. For "Christianity" to have been perverted, almost across the board, into the very opposite of what even a not-very-perceptive reader of the NT can see Jesus was talking about is a mystery too big to simply attribute to demonic forces. I don't claim to have the explanation for this mystery, but to me it cuts to the very heart of what Christianity claims to be. Like many, I do think that a huge and unfortunate turning point occurred when Constantine officially blessed Christianity as a state-approved religion. If Christianity ever had a chance of becoming what Jesus envisioned, that killed it.

 

[AvisG]

So what are you going to do about it? What is your action plan?

My action plan? To try to live my life as a follower of Jesus and to distance myself as far as humanly possible from the religion that calls itself "Christianity."

 

[Dave G.]

The idea is we come humbly before God in prayer and supplication. Please only stay mad for so long and take it before God. Emotionalism doesn't impress Him, pride doesn't impress Him any more than commercial Christianity. We pour our hearts out before the Lord don't we ?

Sometimes we are best off in small groups who/where the remnant can be found. I believe there is such a remnant being pulled out by Jesus Christ Himself, who know Him personally. But on the flip side, it costs a ton of money to run a tv ministry world wide. Where would you get that money from ? Because Jesus did say the gospel had to go world wide before his return, He did not say what that would look like in 2019 .

 

[public hermit]

Welcome back! I concur with so much that you have said. But, I'm not mad and I'm not surprised. You have already hit on the problem: human nature corrupts everything it touches, even the church. Christian history has proven as much. Honestly, I would be surprised if it were any other way. But, of course, that is exactly what we need: surprising, radically different Christians. What we need is Christians like you who point it out and then live radically different lives than what is purported to be Christianity.

Great post! Please, don't lose that passion. We don't need any more contented cynics, like me.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Have you prayed for your brothers and sisters in Christ, and for those with whom you may, as you describe, be "disgusted" with?

The Bible is very clear on our need to pray, especially for each other, for as it is written, the devil goes about seeking whom he may devour, and that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities in the spiritual realm.

I appreciate your sentiments, but what I'm talking about is SO PERVASIVE, so all-consuming, that it cannot reasonably be attributed to "the devil" or "principalities" unless the Holy Spirit is completely and utterly toothless and ineffectual. For "Christianity" to have been perverted, almost across the board, into the very opposite of what even a not-very-perceptive reader of the NT can see Jesus was talking about is a mystery too big to simply attribute to demonic forces. I don't claim to have the explanation for this mystery, but to me it cuts to the very heart of what Christianity claims to be. Like many, I do think that a huge and unfortunate turning point occurred when Constantine officially blessed Christianity as a state-approved religion. If Christianity ever had a chance of becoming what Jesus envisioned, that killed it.

You cut off some of my post that you quoted from.

I appreciate your sentiments

What i posted are not "sentiments", but are what is in God's Word, for us, His believers to abide by and heed, for it is HIM we are cleaving to, not "man" or man's many foibles or mis-directions, etc.

WE are to be "salt" and "light" and we are to be in prayer for our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and for ourselves, because the devil does not discriminate nor give a drivel about what we SAY we are. The ONLY thing that gets him on the "run" is GOD Himself. THAT is why we pray, and when we pray, we pray MOSTLY for OURSELVES, just as David did, when he asked God to "examine his heart to see if there was any sin in it, including the "hidden" sins that many of us are blind to, like "pride", etc.

 

[timewerx]

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

It only becomes God's work if the money acquired isn't used for indulgences.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Where does Jesus say "Be mad at your neighbor"? If you think others that call themselves Christians are acting unChristlike then the answer would be to act Christlike as an example to them of how it ought to be done. I do not see how being angry with them accomplishes anything positive. If one believes that Jesus is the resurrected Christ one is a Christian. If not, one is not. Once that is established then one can move further with the work of being a Christian and begin living life with that in mind. If one or a group of Christians loses sight of the mission Christ has given him, her or them being angry with that person or group does nothing to improve the situation. I understand that often becoming angry is often out of our control but remaining angry is not.

 

[timewerx]

Where does Jesus say "Be mad at your neighbor"?

"Now where's my whip of cords...."

Jesus would say!

If you love someone, there are times you need to be mad at them!


.

 

[brinny]

grasping the after wind said: ↑
Where does Jesus say "Be mad at your neighbor"?

"Now where's my whip of cords...."

Jesus would say!

If you love someone, there are times you need to be mad at them!


.

Jesus took the whip to "who"? And why did He do that?

What were they doing?

Would you say that Jesus demonstrated wrath?

 

[A Realist]

Just do what I did. Back away from it. Get out of organized Christianity. Live your life according to the dictates of your conscience.

I say "your conscience" instead of "the spirit", because if everyone were living their lives according to the dictates of the same "spirit", then the Church wouldn't be facing the issues it has today.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

Why not devote your energies to improving upon the work done by others?

 

[grasping the after wind]

"Now where's my whip of cords...."

Jesus would say!

If you love someone, there are times you need to be mad at them!


.

I don't think that is what he would say at all. I think he would say if you love someone there are times you need to correct them. We are not told to act out of anger but out of love. Only the righteous have a right to be angry at the unrighteous. Jesus being righteous has that right. I being unrighteous and guilty of my own iniquities, do not have such a right. This is not to say I am immune to becoming angry over the faults of others just that when I become angry over that I am unjustified in doing so. Just as a righteous person ought not become angry at someone that is as righteous as themselves, so to an unrighteous person has no standing to become angry at someone no more unrighteous than themselves. Therefore unless I am acting wholly in accordance with the Lord's commands I am not entitled to any righteous indignation about how others are missing the mark.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

NETWORK is a brilliant, prophetic, deliciously bitter pill that every adult over 30 should take at least once. We ARE living in Network today.

Your self-proclaimed "rant", with Robert Jeffress as the villain of the piece? A more lightweight "villain" has never been found.

 

[Hammster]

Are you joking or did you MISS THE ENTIRE POINT??? My "local church" in the sense that you are talking about has amply demonstrated that it is NO DIFFERENT - and it has done this in multiple localities over many years. You're not talking to some neophyte observer here, but to a well-traveled veteran of "Christianity."

How does a local church do this over multiple locations? I’m confused.