Illegal Drugs!

[b&wpac4]

We are not talking about alcohol in this thread...the OP asked about heroin, cocaine, and pot.

Let's try to stay on topic.

One drug that is legal being compared to other drugs that are illegal is on topic. It's not like beach balls were brought up or something.

 

[Everlasting33]

One drug that is legal being compared to other drugs that are illegal is on topic. It's not like beach balls were brought up or something.

Right...yup, I am aware of that. But, he specifically asked about heroin, cocaine, and pot...not alcohol.

It's very easy to get off topic and I am trying my best to stay on course.

 

[Ben-AG]

A lot of people mention how it isn't right to charge a "non-violent drug user" and how said people aren't worse, possibly even better as Protocol11 puts it, who support the laws which outlaw those particular drugs.

Now, we all know of the horrendous fighting going on over such drugs. There were 5,376 documented murders in 2008, just in MEXICO! In 2007, 2,477 people were killed, as documented. This, apparently though, is only a small fraction of the horrendous acts that occur in "Latin American countries." -
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/world/americas/09mexico.html

"Mr. Medina-Mora said the overall level of violence in Mexico remained moderate compared with that in other Latin American countries."

"Mexico’s overall homicide rate last year, 11 deaths per 100,000 people, was a small fraction of the rates in Colombia, Guatemala, El Salvador and Brazil, he said."

Why is this all happening? I think, we must ask, more importantly, how?

"Officials complain ... that the billions of dollars in drug profits have corrupted many institutions in Mexico."

You, the "non-violent drug user," are fueling such dreadful destruction. Destruction that is far worse than you can imagine and goes beyond your own selfish existence. Now, I know your arguments against this case are going to contain arguments along the line of: "None of the drug-war violence would be happening if it was not illegal." Does that make it moral?

Regardless that you don't think its right that cannibus is illegal, it is, and it is not right to break such law when it is fueling such atrocities. If you don't think it's right, petition; protest; try to get laws passed peacefully so that it won't be fought over in appaling ways. I have no problem with that. But, understand what you are fueling in the present and how many "rapes and murders" you have funded. I agree that such atrocities would probably not happen if it was legal and we had actual companies doing the growing, but that does not take away from our current situation. Whether you like it or not, you are killing people with your hobby. Is that moral?

You make a very compelling statement; I never thought of it that way before.

It's something of a vicious cycle then... the users get charged and imprisoned, which makes using more dangerous, which means more people get hurt, which means more users get charged, etc. etc. etc.

The way you put it though, it's almost like buying diamonds which have been mined through near-slave labor and horrible work conditions... and yet people keep on buying diamonds, even though this stuff is well publicized by human rights groups....

Yes, it is. While there is nothing wrong with diamonds, and multitudes of people would be furious if they were outlawed, buying these "blood diamonds" and fueling brutality is nefarious.

I still think that the best way to reduce a lot of this violence would be to make most drugs legal, although keep the manufacturing and selling of a lot of them illegal if you do not have a license to do so. Some, like crystal meth, should remain completely illegal, this due mostly to the... ah... explosive... nature of the process that makes it a serious risk to the health and safety of other people. Otherwise it is just prohibition all over again, and there's a reason that didn't work.

I agree with your observations. The question lies in, I think, does cannibus pose a risk to the health and safety of other people besides the user that would make its legalization just? That, quite possibly, is another debate altogether.

 

[ke1985]

I am glad these drugs are illegal...i think they are worse for our society.

 

[Jade Margery]

I agree with your observations. The question lies in, I think, does cannibus pose a risk to the health and safety of other people besides the user that would make its legalization just? That, quite possibly, is another debate altogether.

I can only speak personally, but I've found hanging out with people who are smoking pot much pleasanter than people who are smoking cigarettes. I don't smoke or enjoy the smell of either one, but pot seems to produce a lot less smoke and often I can be in the same room and not even smell it. Other than second hand smoke, I suppose there is a risk for car accidents for people who drive high, but high people seem to be much better functioning than drunk people and drink is not illegal. It makes sense that smoking and driving would be as illegal as drinking and driving. Other than that, I cannot see any direct damage done to other people.

I know much less about other drugs, since I don't know anyone who does them on a regular basis. (Some friends have dabbled, but nothing stuck.)

 

[MostRadicalManEver]

so do i, imagine how much more crime there would be if they were legal, our houses would probably be robbed every day with all the new heroin addicts, the people in mexico would probably all murder each other with all their extra business and everyone would be taking drugs every day and not doing any work or paying tax and society would crumble. it would be like living in hell, shuddering thought.

Think about it! If drugs were legal they would cost about as much as aspirin eliminating the profit crooks presently make. They would possibly be sold like alcohol is now. You don’t see alcohol companies shooting it out on the streets like they did when alcohol was illegal do you? You don’t hear about alcoholics breaking into houses to support their habit do you?

If drugs were legalized what makes you think more people would take them? Would YOU start taking them just because they were legal? Inhaling gas fumes is legal. Do you have this urge to inhale gas fumes to get high because it is legal?

[FONT=&quot]Don’t let the television do your thinking for you![/FONT]

 

[TeddyKGB]

I am glad these drugs are illegal...i think they are worse for our society.

Please turn in your libertarian card at the nearest convenient dumpster.

 

[TeddyKGB]

yes, i think lots of people would start taking breaking the law and take drugs like cannabis if it was legal.

Which laws would legal cannabis-users start breaking?

you mentioned aspirin, that has benefits, some people say that cannabis has benefits too imagine if it became legal and people started using it because they thought it would help them, junkies would be everywhere robbing your home mugging you. there is to much bad information about drugs and to much ignorance thats why cannabis must stay illeagal it doesnt help you it is wrong. and id be worried if we made it legal, because what happens when someone thinks it is okay to take it but then gets arrested for it, it would be a mess.

No one has suggested that a campaign of government-sponsored pro-cannabis advertisement ought to accompany legalization. I have a good sense that non-users don't generally consider marijuana undesirable merely because it is illegal; the mass smoke-out predicted by fearmongers isn't going to happen.

 

[Cabal]

yes, i think lots of people would start taking breaking the law and take drugs like cannabis if it was legal. you mentioned aspirin, that has benefits, some people say that cannabis has benefits too imagine if it became legal and people started using it because they thought it would help them

Yes, like sufferers of chronic diseases like MS who are often in pain, they'll just shiv you as soon as a drug that makes you placid is legalised.

junkies would be everywhere robbing your home mugging you.

No, they wouldn't. Cannabis makes you placid. The last thing you feel like doing is breaking into someone's house. Also cannabis isn't nearly as virulently habit-forming as harder drugs, so the crime argument really doesn't apply.

there is to much bad information about drugs and to much ignorance

Yes, I'm getting that quite strongly right now.....

and id be worried if we made it legal, because what happens when someone thinks it is okay to take it but then gets arrested for it, it would be a mess.

*sigh*

WHY WOULD YOU BE ARRESTED FOR DOING SOMETHING THAT IS LEGAL

 

[Protocol11]

i dont understand though. if drugs were legal how would we send people who take drugs to prison?

We wouldn't. Kinda the point.

we cant have people breaking the law and being able to get away with it. i dont think some of you think things through proper

If it was legal, they wouldn't be breaking the law, would they.

And I don't think things though proper? My irony meter just blew up and killed the dog. Thanks.

there not innocent though if they take drugs.

They're more innocent than the people wanting to govern their lives and hurt them if they don't do as they're told.

i wont be going to prison because i dont break the law. and i haven't had any loss of my freedom so dont no what your talking about,

You live in the largest, most advanced surviellance society in the world. If you can;t see the fact that you're losing your rights, privacy and freedoms left and right, you're most likely blind.

drugs was made illeagal because its wrong to take them so the people who take them r bad people.

You sound like you're 5 years old. So, if you take aspirin, a drug, are you a bad person?

they damage your body and people run other people over and attack them and there family so its better to lock them up then to have them doing bad things.

If someone commits a real crime, then punish them. Many drug users never do the things you mention and live their lives as otherwise peaceful, law abiding citizens. Yet you support ruining their lives over a simple plant or mind altering substance.

You can;t use health issues as justification. There are things legal that are far worse to your body than mind-altering drugs. Besides, if someone has the right to stuff their face until they weigh 500 pounds, I have the right to stick whatever I choose in my own body, and no one will stop me.

Now, we all know of the horrendous fighting going on over such drugs. There were 5,376 documented murders in 2008, just in MEXICO! In 2007, 2,477 people were killed, as documented. This, apparently though, is only a small fraction of the horrendous acts that occur in "Latin American countries." -
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/wo.../09mexico.html

Yes, and the people who created the drug war are responsible for this violence and the creation of these cartels. The people who continue it are also responsible for the ongoing violence, on both sides of the law.

You, the "non-violent drug user," are fueling such dreadful destruction. Destruction that is far worse than you can imagine and goes beyond your own selfish existence. Now, I know your arguments against this case are going to contain arguments along the line of: "None of the drug-war violence would be happening if it was not illegal." Does that make it moral?

How can you criticize me for something you and those who support the drug war are equally, if not more responsible for? Or do you think there's no blood on your hands?

I'ld love to be able to grow my own, but given the what the government will do to me if I do, I'm forced to get my smoke from other sources. Though I do try to buy American when possible.

Regardless that you don't think its right that cannibus is illegal, it is, and it is not right to break such law when it is fueling such atrocities.

Nor is it right to support such laws when they're the cause of such atrocities.

If you don't think it's right, petition; protest; try to get laws passed peacefully so that it won't be fought over in appaling ways.

I'm all for that. But the government is only going to give up this war when it realizes it can't stop people from smoking, that the people will overgrow the government.

I have no problem with that. But, understand what you are fueling in the present and how many "rapes and murders" you have funded.

You've funded them too. Or did you not read the article in which a big time drug honcho thanked the US for outlawing drugs and allowing him to become a billionare.

I agree that such atrocities would probably not happen if it was legal and we had actual companies doing the growing, but that does not take away from our current situation. Whether you like it or not, you are killing people with your hobby. Is that moral?

The people responsible and who support the drug war have just as much blood on their hands as drug users, if not more. See, with grass, you buy mexican, canadian, or american. I try to buy american when I can to lessen the amount of money that goes to cartels. But I'm not going to let the fact that the government is responsible for the cartels existence stop me from exercizing my rights and fighting this war in my own way.

If everyone stopped smoking because some of the weed fuels drug violence, then the government would win.

if your a good person and get a good education then you wont take drugs which kill you and other people in mexico.

People like you are the reason people are getting killed in drug producing nations. It's a lot more than just Mexico.

once we catch everyone who takes drugs then the market will disapear.

Never gonna happen.

we cant just forget about it we have to be strong and send these bad people who take drugs to prison. i cant believe people can even think it could be a good idea.

How about we send you to prison? How about we drug users start treating this war like the war is really is, and start doing to the drug war supporters what has been done to so many users over the past 40 years.

I say if you support the drug war or carry out it's policies, you're a target. If we all started doing that, I think more people would reconsider wanting to ruin someone's life for exercizing their own rights.

Legalizing highly addictive drugs will do more harm than good for our society.

The more harmful one, we can regulate. Regulate who gets them, why and how much. Regulate so that the dangers are largely mitigated. Or wouyld you rather just have junkies shooting up in the streets like they do now?

so do i, imagine how much more crime there would be if they were legal, our houses would probably be robbed every day with all the new heroin addicts, the people in mexico would probably all murder each other with all their extra business and everyone would be taking drugs every day and not doing any work or paying tax and society would crumble. it would be like living in hell, shuddering thought.

Wow, how does it feel to be so completely brainwashed?

yes, i think lots of people would start taking breaking the law and take drugs like cannabis if it was legal. you mentioned aspirin, that has benefits, some people say that cannabis has benefits too imagine if it became legal and people started using it because they thought it would help them, junkies would be everywhere robbing your home mugging you. there is to much bad information about drugs and to much ignorance thats why cannabis must stay illeagal it doesnt help you it is wrong. and id be worried if we made it legal, because what happens when someone thinks it is okay to take it but then gets arrested for it, it would be a mess.

You really don't understand the differences between illegal and legal, do you? Somone just needs to give you a hash browny without your knowing it. Maybe then you'ld have some intelligence. Seriosuly, are you like 12 or something?

 

[b&wpac4]

there not legal though, but if we changed it to make them legal then it will be unfair on the people who thought they were okay to take when they get arrested for it.

That doesn't make logical sense. We had Prohibition in the US. People were arrested for having alcohol. When Prohibition was lifted, would you say that a person who was arrested for having alcohol when it was illegal was treated unfairly just because later it was made legal? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[b&wpac4]

i dont understand your post what does selling sex has to do with drugs. you shouldnt be arrested for having alcohol because it isnt really a proper drug, although you shouldnt drink too much.

Prohibition is not prostitution....

 

[Andreusz]

^ Whew, b&wpac, thanks for clarifying that. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how sex got into ER's post #44.

 

[Andreusz]

i dont understand your post what does selling sex has to do with drugs. you shouldnt be arrested for having alcohol because it isnt really a proper drug, although you shouldnt drink too much.

If you think alcohol isn't a drug, then I'm afraid you have A LOT to learn about the universe.

 

[b&wpac4]

If you think alcohol isn't a drug, then I'm afraid you have A LOT to learn about the universe.

What's sad is that I really wish I could be utterly convinced this poster was just a complete parody poster, trying to mock, but, for some reason, I keep coming back to the idea that they are very serious.

 

[Cabal]

there not legal though, but if we changed it to make them legal then it will be unfair on the people who thought they were okay to take when they get arrested for it.

*sigh*

If something is legal, you CAN'T be arrested for it.

 

[b&wpac4]

its not a real drug like heroin because its not illeagal

Are prescription drugs real drugs as they are not illegal to have if you have a doctor's prescription?

 

[Cabal]

its not a real drug like heroin because its not illeagal

*SIGH*

A drug is not defined as such because of whether or not it's illegal. A drug is a chemical that alters the normal functioning of the body's chemistry, usually in such a way that alters perception.

You realise that if cannabis were the drug of choice of the masses instead of alcohol, there'd actually be a lot LESS violence in society?

 

[Cabal]

i no, but isnt the danger if we make drugs legal then people will suddenly take it not realising that that they will get arrested for it IF they get caught. some might get away with it but some will get caught and arrested.

Ok, seriously, this needs rephrasing.

If drugs are made legal - NO ONE WILL BE ARRESTED FOR USING THEM.

 

[b&wpac4]

if the police catch them they will. there is a police man who lives near me and weve discussed drugs before and people taking drugs as a needle was found at a nearby park at neigbourhood watch meetings and he will arrest them. if we make them legal people will get the wrong idea and think they are okay to take, but if they get caught by the police who have zero tolerance around my area they will get arrested.

Please look up the words "legal" and "illegal" in your nearest dictionary. You cannot be arrested for committing legal acts.