if you would please answer

[JustAnotherSkeptic]

I watched a debate recently in which the reason for god existing is that the world existed so somthing had to create it, being that god is the creater and there for exists.

So then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

 

[Van]

Great question, but it seems folks are reluctant to answer. If you have ever looked at the picture provided by two opposing mirrors, you see an apparently endless series of the same reflection. Lets start with the Universe. Was it always there or did it have a beginning? I accept it had a beginning, because I accept my understanding of the "big bang theory." That is our first mirror. But who or what caused the big bang to bang? We can leave aside the question of who created the "singularity" for the time being, and handle that with another set of mirrors. So we can say it just decided to autonomously explode based on some internal timing mechanism, or some external force, God or "non-god" caused it to go boom. The problem with it just happened due to its pre-existing configuration, is that according to physics as we understand the behavior, it could not boom. So this points to the "greater" possibility that God or non-god caused it to bang. Some transcendent force.

So now we hold up the second mirror, what created the "force". To answer that question, we must leave science and rational thought and physical evidence and embark on a voyage of pure speculation, meta-physics if you will. And the first port of call, for me at least, is to say God (or non-god) has always existed, and He is the "uncaused cause." If you want to peer further into the image of the mirrors, you can go on to an endless series of ports, and each time ask, who created that image. And sadly, if you care to, you can stay on that voyage for infinity. But a dullard like me gets off at the nearest port to the reality I know "God or non-god has always existed" and let others sail into the sunset.

Does that answer your question?

 

[razeontherock]

To answer that question, we must leave rational thought and physical evidence and embark on a voyage of pure speculation, meta-physics if you will. And the first port of call, for me at least, is to say God (or non-god) has always existed,

I think this does a good job of clarifying the issue here, that the OP does no justice to defining the very loose and non-descript term of "God."

Let's do that: everything we see was already here when we got here, and it took a lot of power to put it here. The big bang took a LOT of power, E=mc squared and all. Next up:

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

Romans 1:3-4

So I say we have plenty of evidence and rational thought serves us well, and refine the statement "we must leave rational thought and physical evidence and embark on a voyage of pure speculation," in the above post.

Other than that I'm good. In another thread the point was made that we really don't know much about the nature of Universes. Could we consider the future plans in the creative mind of G-d, before creation occurred, to = "the Universe?"

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

The straight-up answer is no one knows, it is not revealed to us. If something created God, then what created the something that created God...

 

[drich0150]

I watched a debate recently in which the reason for god existing is that the world existed so something had to create it, being that god is the Creator and there for exists.

Just because you watched a debate, and a specific answer was given it doesn't mean that answer or argument is the correct or only one.

So then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

What was before the Bang? If all existence was derived from the discharge of a singularity, what cause the singularity? What was before that? And then that? And so on...

Is what you believe any less plausible just because you cannot explain beyond your current understanding of it?

Where your attention should be, is not in the specifics of a particular belief, but to the degree of faith it takes for one to believe any of the current accounts of "origins."

 

[Joveia]

So then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

This post is rather abstract, but I think there's an important difference between an uncaused God and an uncaused universe/multiverse: they would be infinite in a different way.

If the multiverse has always existed then the multiverse has existed for an infinite length of time - unless it's timeless. It's probably not timeless, because then why would an inanimate timeless object be 'set up' to create a temporal universe (a radically different type of thing)? That wouldn't make sense.

This makes the multiverse an infinite by successive addition. So then the multiverse is like someone who started doing 1 + 1 + 1 +1 and so on forever an infinite time ago, and has now reached infinity. This is a bit of a counter-intuitive idea; it may make sense, but it is different from what applies to God (see below).

God would be an infinite by nature rather than successive addition. What this means is that unlike the multiverse, God wouldn't be an infinite composed of infinitely many parts. God would, instead, encompass a kind of reality that encompasses everything in a way that doesn't contain within itself parts/distinctions/discrete objects. This would, by definition, be infinite. But not like the multiverse infinite of successive addition.

So, assuming that this distinction between an uncaused God and an uncaused multiverse makes sense, you do have a basis for saying that they could be quite different.

I personally don't think that the multiverse infinite (by successive addition) makes sense, essentially because you just can't count up to infinity, it seems to me. A qualitative infinite makes more sense. So maybe you can rule out an infinite multiverse for that reason.

 

[98cwitr]

No one created God. God is from everlasting to everlasting (Psalm 90), and if you are indeed infinite, then you are neither nor can you be created or destroyed.

If you want to wrap your head around it in humanistic terms, study the Law of Conservation of Matter...but learn to spell first, would ya?

 

[Emmy]

Dear Just Another Skeptic. At first there was only darkness without form, and God`s Spirit was hovering above it. Then God put order into the Chaos and formed it into what we have now. God also made man in His image, we are the only beings who can think and reason. God is Love, pure benevolence. The Bible will tell you more and in detail what happened since. God put order into the Universe, and earth is where we have been banished to, to learn to love and become worthy of living with our Heavenly Father, for all eternity. Without God, our Creator, there still would be a great empty Chasm. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Capuano231]

This is easy as thinking of the question... You just have to think a little bit.

Okay, first when God created the universe He created time too. So, before
He created it, there was no time. So if there is no time, how can something have a beginning?

 

[oi_antz]

Our current existence is contaminated with sin, that is not to say that every sense of existence described by Van above is consumed by sin, but sin exists to contextualise holiness.

Our current existence (e=mc2) is the only 'mirror' we can see while conscious. Beyond our existence we know very little of life, only Heaven and Hell defined by The Bible, and thereafter we have a whole world of "know-a-little's" speculating anyone's ideas.

If you think about sin being the problem in our world that causes all detestable (unholy) acts, then the idea that sin was a product of God is contrary to the idea that God is holy.

We must acknowledge a part of the story that matters: God has an enemy and the enemy is at war with God's supremacy on earth. The more humans he can turn against God, the less worship The Lord receives and therefore the more conviction is suffered by sin.

Since we know God to be everything good and His enemy to be evil, how would you presume our God has a potential to create that which He is opposed to? Wouldn't that be suicide? The incident must have happened due to a malfunction in His enemy's will therefore making the creation corruptible.

Thus, our own God has a potential to make something of utter perfection but capable of being not only imperfect, but opposed to it's creator, of it's own accord and nature. It is likewise stated He can heal us of our sin and we would grow for eternity rather than die (spiritually, as is God). I have a feeling there is quite some weight on the disputed ownership of earth, the enemy exploits human greed while God grants our free will. There's a lot more history to go down yet.

I don't know if this will help you understand the situation a little better, I hope it does! I pray to God mercy on every soul before this 'mirror' is cleaned as is prophesied, meanwhile there's a real exciting story to watch!

 

[oi_antz]

Who then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

Careful not to get stuck in an infinite loop - you really don't want that!

 

[salida]

God is the Creator-he wasn't created but always was. Naturalist sometimes ask this-who created God because they sometimes can't understand the supernatural. God isn't under the bondage of time.

The physical universe is not eternal because of the Law of Thermodynamics. I believe that heaven which is eternal is outside the physical universe that you see. Also, why did God create the stars-one of the reasons is for navigation for men and there is the north star.

 

[Digit]

I watched a debate recently in which the reason for god existing is that the world existed so somthing had to create it, being that god is the creater and there for exists.

So then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

I'm surprised this didn't come up in the debate really, as it usually does. The idea, and this is actually supported by the Biblical words describing God as an 'uncreated' being, is that no one created the Creator. The Creator is Timeless - ie has no start and no end, only things within time can have a 'creation' event.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I watched a debate recently in which the reason for god existing is that the world existed so somthing had to create it, being that god is the creater and there for exists.

So then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

Yes... except it would be better to say the same could be said for the mutli-verse as science has kinda put a starting point on the universe. But yes, any argument about God forever existing could also be applied to the multi-verse. This is why I don't use such arguments.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Careful not to get stuck in an infinite loop - you really don't want that!

Well if you get stuck in infinite recursion (and this is more of a recursion than a loop), sooner or later you are going to blow up the stack.


*requires understanding of computer science to understand*

 

[philadiddle]

I watched a debate recently in which the reason for god existing is that the world existed so somthing had to create it, being that god is the creater and there for exists.

So then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

We have reason to believe that the universe had a beginning (big bang cosmology). That is why we say that something must have started it. What reason do we have to think that God had a beginning? If we have no reason to think that God had a beginning, then why is it valid to ask who created God?

 

[oi_antz]

We have reason to believe that the universe had a beginning (big bang cosmology). That is why we say that something must have started it. What reason do we have to think that God had a beginning? If we have no reason to think that God had a beginning, then why is it valid to ask who created God?

This is the most difficult concept to grasp since we are binary creatures in a universe bound by binary theory and relating the concept to life vs death in a binary fashion causes us to like one and not the other. I think we all like life but not death. This further prompts us to like good and evil. When we really push for the solution to the question "who is God", we put Him on the positive side and begin to worship Him with unary philosophy, and we begin to see the opposite of Him as being our enemy. This is why holiness is associated with God and evil is associated with His enemy.

We are told that death entered the world through sin, so before the sin happened our universe must have been perfect in unary theory having only life and not death. I think when this happened, God had to figure out how to solve the problem. Jesus is the solution to the puzzle, that by being born of The Holy Spirit and justified by grace, the human's spiritual rebirth is the transformation of our soul from being opposed to God to being opposed to sin and therefore rather than dying as is the inherited natural order of the universe, we can live forever as is the natural order of eternity. So I think eternity is the manifested perfection of infinite growth, ie "God". Many people approach it from the opposite angle and try to consider the universe is God, it never really works out to be true.

 

[Key]

I watched a debate recently in which the reason for god existing is that the world existed so somthing had to create it, being that god is the creater and there for exists.

So then who created the creator? For if he always existed couldnt the same be said for the universe?

I just love Time Paradox Issues. But the simple answer is: No, the same could not be said for the universe.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I just love Time Paradox Issues. But the simple answer is: No, the same could not be said for the universe.

But the same could be said for the multiverse, and this is an issue for those who want proof of God.

 

[98cwitr]

YouTube - Imagining the Tenth Dimension - Rob Bryanton [FULL CLIP].flv