If You Were President

[Hoshiyya]

We are free to disagree with Onieu's vision, but so far he, along with I think two others, has given the most on-topic response, vis-a-vis offering his intimations of a comprehensive social concept/ideal (whether set in millennial or non/pre-millennial terms).

Such Spenglerian inquiries are certainly not for everyone. Some lead, some follow without thinking about where it's heading. Some let the priest do all the thinking. Some have an inner, wordless "knowing" whereby their inspiration leads them without need for intellectual grasp of, or ability to put into words (yet) what it's all about - and we just have to respect that.

 

[Onieu]

I am very familiar with what the Torah says. God's creating laws to be just in something that was already cultural is not the same as endorsement.

Look what Leviticus says:

1.Your slaves can be taken from the nations
2.Your slaves cannot be taken from Israelites

if it was a cultural thing, it would have permitted 1. and 2.

Too bad you had to comment on MY dream vision rather than the OP. the whole point was to share your own view, not to criticize and shoot down other people's idealistic visions.

 

[xDenax]

Yes I think its perfectly fine to control almost every aspect of a person's life. Does that make me a horrible person?

I can't say a person is all bad but they can certainly have dangerous outlooks on life and you certainly do. To want to control every aspect of human beings is not normal or healthy. You are on a very high horse and it may be unpleasant should you fall flat on your face.

She calls 'em as she sees 'em, fer sure! Maybe it's a good thing I never got to the part of my own plan where I establish world domination by capturing all the oil fields and Gibraltar as well!

Mz. Dena, you know if you keep feedin' 'em, they'll just keep comin' back ...

Dan ...

Yes, you are right, you are right!

 

[Onieu]

I can't say a person is all bad but they can certainly have dangerous outlooks on life and you certainly do. To want to control every aspect of human beings is not normal or healthy. You are on a very high horse and it may be unpleasant should you fall flat on your face.



Yes, you are right, you are right!

Okay well its not about me wanting to control anyone its about my understanding that we are all under the moral obligation to obey God's laws, and what I presented is in large part His laws. the vast majority of what i said i believe it is required by Messiah and God. otherwise i wouldn't require it of other people.

 

[xDenax]

and what I presented is in large part His laws.

No, you didn't. Anyway, I can't feed you anymore or I will be partly responsible for your posts.

 

[Onieu]

No, you didn't. Anyway, I can't feed you anymore or I will be partly responsible for your posts.

Obviously when i said what i said it was in the context of "in my belief". Obviously just because I believe doesn't make it so. I would appreciate you being less condescending. thanks. Yes i would like to not discuss with you. If you keep addressing me, i will at least attempt to defend myself. But otherwise, I dont really have a desire to discuss with you based on how you have been treating me. Im sure you have better things to do with your time anyways.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Personally, I'm wondering if perhaps Solomonic Israel was the best approximation, the purest form of, of "X."


One thing that interests me greatly is the fact that we don't see modern technology in heaven - it's always the same level of tech as is basically found in monarchic Israel, which many just take for granted without truly meditating over. But to me, this is FASCINATING.

The "heavenly tech level" was more advanced than at least parts of the antediluvian civilizations were able to approximate (I assume), and also more advanced than many "primitive cultures" of indigenous peoples, but (in a sense) less advanced than our modern post-Industrial civ's.

Don't people find things like this curious?
To me, this is greater, more mysterious, more interesting and numinous than I am able to communicate in words.

 

[visionary]

Personally, I'm wondering if perhaps Solomonic Israel was the best approximation, the purest form of, of "X."


One thing that interests me greatly is the fact that we don't see modern technology in heaven - it's always the same level of tech as is basically found in monarchic Israel, which many just take for granted without truly meditating over. But to me, this is FASCINATING.

The "heavenly tech level" was more advanced than at least parts of the antediluvian civilizations were able to approximate, but (in a sense) less advanced than our modern civ's.

Don't people find things like this curious?
To me, this is greater, more mysterious, more interesting and numinous than I am able to communicate in words.

Modern technology... in heaven.. interesting but I would advance that idea to organic rather than inorganic mechanisms... Human bodies get metallosis from the inorganic.. It could be a like with like??

 

[Hoshiyya]

Thanks for your reply, Visionary !

Based on the scriptural records of visions of the heavens, (especially the Major Prophets and the Revelation) it appears to me that the "heavenly tech level" was more advanced than some, but less advanced (in a sense) than others, namely our modern ones.

If an Eskimo saw heaven, would it resemble more the Eskimo culture, or would it still resemble monarchic Israel ?
Or if a modern Westerner was granted such a vision, would it be modern, or still ancient - or whichever example you wish.

Edit:
Copying error Fixed.

 

[visionary]

Thanks for your reply, Visionary !

Based on the scriptural records of visions of the heavens, (especially the Major Prophets and the Revelation) it appears to me that the "heavenly tech level" was more advanced than some, but less advanced (in a sense) than others, namely our modern ones.

If an Eskimo saw heaven, would it resemble more the Eskimo culture, or would it still resemble monarchic Israel ?
Or if a modern Westerner was granted such a vision, would it be modern, or still ancient - or whichever example you wish.

Edit:
Copying error Fixed.

If my "broken pieces" thread is any indication... I would day well advanced even beyond our imaginations.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Heaven is "advanced" yes, but technologically so?

From what I read in the Scriptures, they don't use cars, as an example. Neither is it as primitive as some of the cultures in the world.

They burn incense in heaven, they don't use aerosol spray cans, although the latter (in terrestrial terms) are more modern, advanced. They have trumpets in heaven, as per the Revelation, instead of subwoofers or whatever machines may be used to make sound more efficiently than trumpets.

In heaven, of course, they don't need jetpacks to fly, you might say, but they don't need wings to fly either - still they have wings.
There appears (imo) to be an aesthetic choice there, regarding giving angels wings, trumpets and so forth, rather than a practical one. This aesthetic is amazingly fascinating to me.

 

[Onieu]

Heaven is "advanced" yes, but technologically so?

From what I read in the Scriptures, they don't use cars, as an example. Neither is it as primitive as some of the cultures in the world.

They burn incense in heaven, they don't use aerosol spray cans, although the latter (in terrestrial terms) are more modern, advanced. They have trumpets in heaven, as per the Revelation, instead of subwoofers or whatever machines may be used to make sound more efficiently than trumpets.

In heaven, of course, they don't need jetpacks to fly, you might say, but they don't need wings to fly either - still they have wings.
There appears (imo) to be an aesthetic choice there, regarding giving angels wings, trumpets and so forth, rather than a practical one. This aesthetic is amazingly fascinating to me.

Its probably like riding a bicycle lol

 

[Hoshiyya]

Its probably like riding a bicycle lol

You don't need bicycles when you're hurdling through the air above the forest at breakneck speed ....

On topic:
Catholicism and Islam, and I think ultimately all the major religions, offer a "full package" vis-a-vis: architecture, visual art and decoration, clothing, musical expression, etc; so why shouldn't יהוה do the same for his people ?
Even Communism has it's own artistic expression (Social Realism.)

Indeed, I suggest that the Bible does offer such a full package, being in all likelihood more flexible (universally applicable) than those offered by Catholicism and Islam, but equally comprehensive. I would further suggest the Heavens offer us the pattern, the design, to which the world shall be conformed - "As Above So Below."
(As an example, maybe the tech level in heaven is what will be on earth in the millennium ?)

However I am still eager to hear other's views on this.

Sometimes we have wordless intimations of things, and our inability to properly express them causes other's, who aren't looking to comprehend, to misunderstand us.

 

[visionary]

Heaven is "advanced" yes, but technologically so?

From what I read in the Scriptures, they don't use cars, as an example. Neither is it as primitive as some of the cultures in the world.

They burn incense in heaven, they don't use aerosol spray cans, although the latter (in terrestrial terms) are more modern, advanced. They have trumpets in heaven, as per the Revelation, instead of subwoofers or whatever machines may be used to make sound more efficiently than trumpets.

In heaven, of course, they don't need jetpacks to fly, you might say, but they don't need wings to fly either - still they have wings.
There appears (imo) to be an aesthetic choice there, regarding giving angels wings, trumpets and so forth, rather than a practical one. This aesthetic is amazingly fascinating to me.

Ezekiel saw the wheel within the wheel and we still today have no clue how this piece of equipment worked.

 

[pat34lee]

Ezekiel saw the wheel within the wheel and we still today have no clue how this piece of equipment worked.

We may have a clue.

 

[visionary]

We may have a clue.

True... but it is still not part of our active technology, nor has it been anything more than a curiosity still..

 

[Hoshiyya]

True... but it is still not part of our active technology, nor has it been anything more than a curiosity still..

Is it a "technology" ?
Might / will this tech be approximated or realized on earth in the millennium ?

 

[mishkan]

True... but it is still not part of our active technology, nor has it been anything more than a curiosity still..

What? The gyroscope???

• There is one in every airplane! That's how the artificial horizon gauge works.
• I have a wireless mouse at home that contains a gyro--I wave it in the air, and the motion is detected as though I had rolled it across a table.
• Ship stabilizers, anti-roll devices
• Without containing an actual gyroscope, race cars and motorcycles use the same principles to assist with balance and stability--only the engine and the wheels serve as the gyros.

I think the gyroscope is a pretty practical instrument, myself.

 

[aniello]

What? The gyroscope???

• There is one in every airplane! That's how the artificial horizon gauge works.
• I have a wireless mouse at home that contains a gyro--I wave it in the air, and the motion is detected as though I had rolled it across a table.
• Ship stabilizers, anti-roll devices
• Without containing an actual gyroscope, race cars and motorcycles use the same principles to assist with balance and stability--only the engine and the wheels serve as the gyros.

I think the gyroscope is a pretty practical instrument, myself.

Absolutely correct, never flew a plane of any class without at least one for the airtificial horizon and also the gyro-compass.

Gyros are as common as hop-toads. How else would hop-toads land on their bellies were it not for gyros?

Now if we could only install gyros in human craniums it would be a better world, everyone would have a sense of direction.

Copy? Over and out.

 

[visionary]

Absolutely correct, never flew a plane of any class without at least one for the airtificial horizon and also the gyro-compass.

Gyros are as common as hop-toads. How else would hop-toads land on their bellies were it not for gyros?

Now if we could only install gyros in human craniums it would be a better world, everyone would have a sense of direction.

Copy? Over and out.

But the gyro has never been the actual flying device...