If you want to be under the Law, don't keep the Sabbath.

[VictorC]

It was by grace that God chose a people in the Old Testament to reveal His charater and will to a fallen world. It was through these choosen people that God gave His will seen in His Law. It was through these people that God gave the shadows that painted a picture of God's saving work through the life, death and words of Jesus. Because of this, these people thought they had an advantage over all other people. They became proud and self righteous and very exclusive.

This is probably where you should have stopped, and ponder the reason you remain in the shadow instead of accepting God's grace.

But, you didn't. You continued on to show that you don't know what God's "My law" that isn't according to the covenant given at Sinai refers to, and appeal to your own form of righteousness instead of submitting to God's righteousness. "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain" (Galatians 2:21).

 

[RND]

Throughout Paul's writings, I find a distinction between Gentiles and Jews, between the uncircumcised and the circumcised. I find nothing that would lead me to conclude that Gentiles become Jews.

In a spiritual sense we that have our hearts circumcised and our minds changed are considered "Jews" - spiritual in nature. If there was any such distinction between actual Jew and gentile then God would be a respecter of persons.

"Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also." Romans 3

"And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. " Romans 9

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." Romans 9

"When Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." Romans 2

"For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." 1 Corinthians 1

"But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised." Galatians 2

These verses all indicate that a "true Jew" is not one blood but by faith which is the consistent theme of the Bible!​

Since we agree that the holy convocations were fulfilled and that the obligations of these holy convocations have been fully met in Christ, do we also agree that the seventh-day sabbath is one of the holy convocations?

Only if someone could convince me what type or shadow of the seventh-day sabbath, the 4th commandment, was fulfilled in Christ's ministry.

I mean if the individual commandments were indeed types and shadows then what type or shadow of the 7th commandment was met in Christ? If that were true, that the 10 commandments are types and shadows, and Christ fulfilled the law, then logically adultery should be permissible then. But it isn't. So from a logical standpoint alone it doesn't make sense that the 4th commandment is a type and shadow that was fulfilled in Christ but not the 7th. Or 8th. Or 6th. Or....well you get the point.

The feasts and festivals pointed to the earthly ministry of Christ and His future return to earth and the coming judgment upon the earth.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

In a spiritual sense we that have our hearts circumcised and our minds changed are considered "Jews" - spiritual in nature. If there was any such distinction between actual Jew and gentile then God would be a respecter of persons.

God has chosen Israel. Romans 3 and 11 are clear on this point. Israel was God's chosen before Jesus Christ died and they remain God's chosen since Jesus Christ died. In the meantime, there has clearly been a distinction between Jews and Gentiles. I don't view God as a respecter of persons; I view Him as sovereign and I worship Him as such.

Only if someone could convince me what type or shadow of the seventh-day sabbath, the 4th commandment, was fulfilled in Christ's ministry.

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, but I am happy to discuss the things I'm learning. Would we agree that the sabbath points forward to redemption?

I mean if the individual commandments were indeed types and shadows then what type or shadow of the 7th commandment was met in Christ?

Hopefully, you already understand the relationship between Jesus' Christ's death, the shedding of His blood and the cleansing of all sin. If not, I'm happy to elaborate.

However, let's expand our discussion a bit. Let's discuss the commandments listed in Exodus 34. Was Jesus Christ the fulfillment of any of these commandments?

If that were true, that the 10 commandments are types and shadows, and Christ fulfilled the law, then logically adultery should be permissible then.

If the Holy Spirit convicts you to commit adultery, then you are at liberty to do so. Is that what you'd like to do?

So from a logical standpoint alone it doesn't make sense that the 4th commandment is a type and shadow that was fulfilled in Christ but not the 7th. Or 8th. Or 6th. Or....well you get the point.

If we were to use that type of logic, then we must conclude that it doesn't make sense that all but one of the holy convocations listed in Leviticus 23 have been fulfilled.

The feasts and festivals pointed to the earthly ministry of Christ and His future return to earth and the coming judgment upon the earth.

The holy convocations include the seventh-day sabbath. If they have been fulfilled, the sabbath has been fulfilled. Keep in mind that not one jot or tittle can pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled.

BFA

 

[addo]

Keep in mind that not one jot or tittle can pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled.

BFA

Fulfilled means kept.

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 5:17 KJV[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](17)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[/FONT]

The word "fulfill" in this verse it's the Greek πληρόω (G4137, plēroō | play-ro'-o), and this is Thayer's definition:

Thayer Definition:
1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4134
Citing in TDNT: 6:286, 867
​

Have you read the blue part?

Anyway, just considering plēroō actually means to "end", look how many other things would have ended:

1. (Matthew 3:15) “…it becometh us to fulfil [end] all righteousness.”
2. (John 17:13) “…that they might have my joy fulfilled [ended] in themselves.”
3. (2 Thessalonians 1:11) “…and fulfil [end] all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.”
4. (John 17:12) “…that the scripture might be fulfilled [ended].”
5. (2 Corinthians 10:6) “…having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled [ended].”

In all these instances G4137 is used and translated as "fulfill". So ... is all righteousness, the joy of Christ, all the good pleasure of His goodness, the Scriptures and the Christians' obedience ended? No. So "fulfill" doesn't mean to end, but to keep (according to God's will).

 

[RND]

God has chosen Israel. Romans 3 and 11 are clear on this point.

Who is Israel? Who is an Israelite? Someone that has that blood coursing through their veins or someone that claims the promises of God?

Israel was God's chosen before Jesus Christ died and they remain God's chosen since Jesus Christ died.

Jesus tells me their house was left "desolate".

In the meantime, there has clearly been a distinction between Jews and Gentiles.

Galatians 3:28 tells me something much different.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

I don't view God as a respecter of persons; I view Him as sovereign and I worship Him as such.

Well, if He's not a respecter of persons why do you insist that He is favoring one group of people over others?

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, but I am happy to discuss the things I'm learning. Would we agree that the sabbath points forward to redemption?

Among other things. It also points back as a reminder of creation and forward to the sabbath rest in the earth made new.

Hopefully, you already understand the relationship between Jesus' Christ's death, the shedding of His blood and the cleansing of all sin. If not, I'm happy to elaborate.

I do. What did the 7th Commandment point to?

However, let's expand our discussion a bit. Let's discuss the commandments listed in Exodus 34. Was Jesus Christ the fulfillment of any of these commandments?

Of course.

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Did Christ "fill full" the commandments of God or eliminate them?

If the Holy Spirit convicts you to commit adultery, then you are at liberty to do so. Is that what you'd like to do?

Do you seriously think the Holy Spirit would convict anyone at anytime of breaking one of the commandments of God? I mean seriously.

If we were to use that type of logic, then we must conclude that it doesn't make sense that all but one of the holy convocations listed in Leviticus 23 have been fulfilled.

Um, those were rituals that pointed forward to the cross. Are the 10C's rituals or the revelation of His character?

The holy convocations include the seventh-day sabbath.

The 7th day was a weekly event and gathering. It didn't point forward to to Christ's work on the cross. So in that sense it wasn't the same as the holy days.

If they have been fulfilled, the sabbath has been fulfilled.

Then why does God ask us to remember it and where does He say, "you can now forget it"?

Keep in mind that not one jot or tittle can pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled.

Heaven and earth have yet to pass.

 

[Cribstyl]

Fulfilled means kept.
The word "fulfill" in this verse it's the Greek πληρόω (G4137, plēroō | play-ro'-o), and this is Thayer's definition:

Thayer Definition:
1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute
2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4134
Citing in TDNT: 6:286, 867
​

Have you read the blue part?

Anyway, just considering plēroō actually means to "end", look how many other things would have ended:

1. (Matthew 3:15) “…it becometh us to fulfil [end] all righteousness.”
2. (John 17:13) “…that they might have my joy fulfilled [ended] in themselves.”
3. (2 Thessalonians 1:11) “…and fulfil [end] all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.”
4. (John 17:12) “…that the scripture might be fulfilled [ended].”
5. (2 Corinthians 10:6) “…having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled [ended].”

In all these instances G4137 is used and translated as "fulfill". So ... is all righteousness, the joy of Christ, all the good pleasure of His goodness, the Scriptures and the Christians' obedience ended? No. So "fulfill" doesn't mean to end, but to keep (according to God's will).

Hi Addo,

(if I may) "One word" definitions sometimes have several options to consider; in this case the context help for propper application.

Notice that when the word "fulfill" is used in conjunction with "until or till", a period of time comes and ends accordingly for whatever is proposed to happen. There is no continuation of that event.


Dan 10:3I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.


Mat 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Luk 21:32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Rev 15:8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Rev 20:3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.




Lev 12:4And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.


Num 6:5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth [himself] unto the LORD, he shall be holy, [and] shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.


Mat 2:15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.


Luk 1:20And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

Luk 21:24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Luk 22:16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.


Rev 6:11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.


Rev 17:17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Cribstyl]

Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.



Some people fail to understand that what Jesus is calling "the law", is every word that is written by Moses and all the prophets, not just the 10.com

The proof is the context, not someones commentary.


Mat 5:17¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



Christ is explaining that no changes can be made of what only a true God has already declared through His prophets will happen. (or God is not all knowing.)

Christ is explaining that nothing will change from the writtings, He will not destroy by ommission, but rather do exaclty (fulfil) what the prophet have written.

 

[Elvis1234]

Ah, the topic that seems to have no definitive answer...Do we still keep the Sabbath or not?

I have been back and forth over this many many many times. For me, both sides of the argument have good evidence. And it seems every other week I start to lean more to one side or the other. I have been *trying* to keep the sabbath for almost 2 years or so now regardless of my waffling. I figure its the safest way to go right now.

I pray that one day I will be blessed with the definitive answer, like previous posters seem to have. Not for my salvation but out of a desire to attempt to please Him with obedience out of love.

When I first started this wonderful journey with Christ, I was really into people's preaching such as Walter Veith and Doug Batchelor (SDA) and naturally Adventists are very well trained in presenting the case for the Sabbath (no disrespect by the trained remark). Such a good case that I pretty quickly decided that the holy Sabbath was something I needed to immediately start keeping. So I did. Not having any Christian friends or family, let alone a church (Ellen White is suspect, again, just my opinion, no offense) plus my sinful desires to do other things on the sabbath has been a struggle. Add to that the requirements of the sabbath that really are impossible to follow in A: my current circumstance of living quarters and B: what is considered 'doing work' definitely make it difficult in my mind.

Now I have been exposed to the other side of the coin and since the sabbath is so engrained in my life that if I did ever come to the conclusion the sabbath has been done away with, I wouldnt want to let it go. Why wouldnt I want to let it go? Out of fear that it was just my love for self and my sick desire to not keep it. I could see how converting Jews of those days would find it very difficult to stop doing the sabbath, after being raised with it their whole lives (as legalistic as it became, no less).

I DO enjoy the sabbath most times though. It ensures I take time out of my worldly concerns to study the word, worship the Lord, have a break from it all, and enjoy God's creation. I fear if it werent for the Sabbath I may not take much time for those things.

Again, I pray for the answer. If I am indeed commanded to keep the sabbath for a 100% surety, then I will strive to do so to the best of my ability. It is the uncertainty that is getting me. I could go on and on about this but I dont want to derail the thread with my wall of text.

 

[VictorC]

Now I have been exposed to the other side of the coin and since the sabbath is so engrained in my life that if I did ever come to the conclusion the sabbath has been done away with, I wouldnt want to let it go.

I've lost count of how many times I have heard this. At first glance the sabbath seems very compelling, until a journey is taken to learn the entire aspect of it and where it was designed to lead us. I think that if you ask the right questions, you will receive the right answers, and this is a good place to start. Welcome to the forum!

 

[Elvis1234]

I've lost count of how many times I have heard this. Welcome to the forum!

Yeah, I had a feeling it wasnt an uncommon situation.

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks!

 

[tall73]

Ah, the topic that seems to have no definitive answer...Do we still keep the Sabbath or not?

I have been back and forth over this many many many times. For me, both sides of the argument have good evidence. And it seems every other week I start to lean more to one side or the other. I have been *trying* to keep the sabbath for almost 2 years or so now regardless of my waffling. I figure its the safest way to go right now.

I pray that one day I will be blessed with the definitive answer, like previous posters seem to have. Not for my salvation but out of a desire to attempt to please Him with obedience out of love.

When I first started this wonderful journey with Christ, I was really into people's preaching such as Walter Veith and Doug Batchelor (SDA) and naturally Adventists are very well trained in presenting the case for the Sabbath (no disrespect by the trained remark). Such a good case that I pretty quickly decided that the holy Sabbath was something I needed to immediately start keeping. So I did. Not having any Christian friends or family, let alone a church (Ellen White is suspect, again, just my opinion, no offense) plus my sinful desires to do other things on the sabbath has been a struggle. Add to that the requirements of the sabbath that really are impossible to follow in A: my current circumstance of living quarters and B: what is considered 'doing work' definitely make it difficult in my mind.

Now I have been exposed to the other side of the coin and since the sabbath is so engrained in my life that if I did ever come to the conclusion the sabbath has been done away with, I wouldnt want to let it go. Why wouldnt I want to let it go? Out of fear that it was just my love for self and my sick desire to not keep it. I could see how converting Jews of those days would find it very difficult to stop doing the sabbath, after being raised with it their whole lives (as legalistic as it became, no less).

I DO enjoy the sabbath most times though. It ensures I take time out of my worldly concerns to study the word, worship the Lord, have a break from it all, and enjoy God's creation. I fear if it werent for the Sabbath I may not take much time for those things.

Again, I pray for the answer. If I am indeed commanded to keep the sabbath for a 100% surety, then I will strive to do so to the best of my ability. It is the uncertainty that is getting me. I could go on and on about this but I dont want to derail the thread with my wall of text.

A. I agree that both sides have evidence. It is not an easy question.

B. It is a good question to look at.

C. Keeping something just to be safe is a miserable experience.

D. Since you enjoy it most of the time there is nothing wrong with doing it even if you come to the conclusion that it is not required. In Col. 2 and Romans 14, the texts most often cited against sabbath requirements, there is no requirement to NOT keep it.

Don't let anyone judge you.

One man considers one day holy, another considers all the same.

 

[k4c]

Ah, the topic that seems to have no definitive answer...Do we still keep the Sabbath or not?

I have been back and forth over this many many many times. For me, both sides of the argument have good evidence. And it seems every other week I start to lean more to one side or the other. I have been *trying* to keep the sabbath for almost 2 years or so now regardless of my waffling. I figure its the safest way to go right now.

I pray that one day I will be blessed with the definitive answer, like previous posters seem to have. Not for my salvation but out of a desire to attempt to please Him with obedience out of love.

When I first started this wonderful journey with Christ, I was really into people's preaching such as Walter Veith and Doug Batchelor (SDA) and naturally Adventists are very well trained in presenting the case for the Sabbath (no disrespect by the trained remark). Such a good case that I pretty quickly decided that the holy Sabbath was something I needed to immediately start keeping. So I did. Not having any Christian friends or family, let alone a church (Ellen White is suspect, again, just my opinion, no offense) plus my sinful desires to do other things on the sabbath has been a struggle. Add to that the requirements of the sabbath that really are impossible to follow in A: my current circumstance of living quarters and B: what is considered 'doing work' definitely make it difficult in my mind.

Now I have been exposed to the other side of the coin and since the sabbath is so engrained in my life that if I did ever come to the conclusion the sabbath has been done away with, I wouldnt want to let it go. Why wouldnt I want to let it go? Out of fear that it was just my love for self and my sick desire to not keep it. I could see how converting Jews of those days would find it very difficult to stop doing the sabbath, after being raised with it their whole lives (as legalistic as it became, no less).

I DO enjoy the sabbath most times though. It ensures I take time out of my worldly concerns to study the word, worship the Lord, have a break from it all, and enjoy God's creation. I fear if it werent for the Sabbath I may not take much time for those things.

Again, I pray for the answer. If I am indeed commanded to keep the sabbath for a 100% surety, then I will strive to do so to the best of my ability. It is the uncertainty that is getting me. I could go on and on about this but I dont want to derail the thread with my wall of text.

Hi JayBiggS,

Many people fall into the trap of keeping the Sabbath using misquoted verses from the old testement or use guidlines from the old testement. As new covenant Christians our guidlines come from the words of Jesus. If you study all the teachings of Jesus, regarding the Sabbath, you will find that He never once did away with the Sabbath nor did He change the day. What you do find is Him doing away with the legalistic and ritualistic mindset behind keeping the Sabbath.

Read through this Jesus Sabbath and you will have a good grasp on how Jesus taught regarding keeping the Sabbath.

Remember, it's love for God and man that causes us to keep the commandments. The commandments are not a means to be justified before God nor are they a means to salvation, but rather, a fruit of the new birth.

Also, the Sabbah is not holy because we don't work on it, the Sabbath is holy so we cease labor in honor of it. But this ceasing of labor is not a ritualistic or legalistic ceasing of labor. In other words, doing things on the Sabbath, in itself, is not a sin and does not equate to forgetting the Sabbath as some have been taught. Listen to Jesus, He is the way, the truth and the life. He is our example.

 

[Sophia7]

Add to that the requirements of the sabbath that really are impossible to follow in A: my current circumstance of living quarters and B: what is considered 'doing work' definitely make it difficult in my mind. . . .

I could see how converting Jews of those days would find it very difficult to stop doing the sabbath, after being raised with it their whole lives (as legalistic as it became, no less).

On the other hand, you seem to understand how difficult it is to observe the Sabbath, especially when you have not been accustomed to its rituals and traditions for your whole life. Also, the practices that Adventists and other Sabbatarians believe are appropriate for Sabbath vary greatly from person to person, making it confusing for those trying to work out exactly how they should observe the Sabbath. It's a burden--one that, as part of the law, was not laid on Gentiles who converted to Christianity, according to Acts 15. Acts 15 isn't just about circumcision but about taking on the yoke of the whole law--which the Bible doesn't separate into "moral" and "ceremonial" categories based on the ten commandments, as Sabbatarians teach. Paul tells us in Galatians 3-5 that as Christians we are not under the yoke of slavery to the whole law. That includes the Sabbath.

I DO enjoy the sabbath most times though. It ensures I take time out of my worldly concerns to study the word, worship the Lord, have a break from it all, and enjoy God's creation. I fear if it werent for the Sabbath I may not take much time for those things.

There is nothing wrong with taking time off from "worldly concerns" on Sabbath or any other day. The activities that you mentioned are all good things to do. However, as I wrote in another thread recently, my studies (and I studied this issue for several years before coming to the conclusion that Sabbath observance is not required of Christians) eventually led me to realize that the modified Sabbath that most Sabbatarians observe today is not actually in accordance with the law. So, while I see value in many of the activities that Adventists recommend for Sabbath, such as worshiping God, fellowshiping with family and friends, reading the Bible, praying, and even resting from work--I also see that if those things can be separated from the commandment itself by customizing the specifics and offering only vague guidelines when teaching people about Sabbath observance, then those things are not dependent on the prescriptions of the law. Sabbatarians have changed the rituals, and if the rituals can be changed, then they are not universally binding moral imperatives. Any moral principles that could apply to the seventh-day Sabbath could apply just as well to any other day or to every day of the week.

Again, I pray for the answer. If I am indeed commanded to keep the sabbath for a 100% surety, then I will strive to do so to the best of my ability. It is the uncertainty that is getting me. I could go on and on about this but I dont want to derail the thread with my wall of text.

It is a difficult and complicated subject to study, and I pray that God would give you understanding. I would suggest that you exercise caution when you listen to certain preachers because they tend to take verses out of context to support their views and to complicate straightforward passages of the Bible. For me, Galatians 3-5 and 2 Corinthians 3 were most compelling in convincing me that the Sabbath is not a universal moral obligation. Samuele Bacchiocchi's book From Sabbath to Sunday also helped me gain some clarity on the historical aspects of the Sabbath and on the practices of the earliest Christians, which were somewhat different from what I had been indoctrinated to believe. Although since he was an Adventist theologian, this obviously wasn't his intention, his book was actually instrumental for me in sorting out my confusion on the issue and in transitioning to a non-Sabbatarian perspective.

 

[k4c]

It's a burden--one that, as part of the law, was not laid on Gentiles who converted to Christianity, according to Acts 15. Acts 15 isn't just about circumcision but about taking on the yoke of the whole law--which the Bible doesn't separate into "moral" and "ceremonial" categories based on the ten commandments, as Sabbatarians teach. Paul tells us in Galatians 3-5 that as Christians we are not under the yoke of slavery to the whole law. That includes the Sabbath.

The issue in Acts was not to set a standard for Gentile Christians. The issue was how one needed to be circumcisied in order to be saved.

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.''

Salvation comes through the new birth which does not come through works, but rather, through belief in the gospel.

Acts 15:7-9 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. "And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

To say the disciples had to add anything to the preaching of the gospel as a requirement for salvation was placing a yoke of bondage on the neck of the disciple's who were preaching salvation through grace.

Acts 15:10-11 "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."

He goes on to say how they shouldn't make things harder for new converts who are turning to God by giving them so much stuff all at once. Just tell them to abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Acts 15:19-20 'My verdict is, then, that instead of making things more difficult for gentiles who turn to God, we should send them a letter telling them merely to abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

This is not an end all list for Gentile Christians otherwise it would be okay for them to lie, steal, murder and so on.

All he is saying is, don't burden new converts with so many things all at once, let them learn over time as they attend church on the Sabbath because this is where they will learn all the other things because Moses is taught in church every Sabbath.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has always had his preachers in every town and is read aloud in the synagogues every Sabbath."

That short list of abstaining from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood was given to new converts because it was probably the main issues they were facing during that time but is was not meant to be an end all list for new believers.

 

[Laodicean]

Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Except that, in context, this last verse covers a span of time that takes us to the end of time. "Till heaven and earth pass..."

So until such time as when heaven and earth passes away, the law remains in its present written form, every jot and tittle, till all be fulfilled. What is the "all" that will be fulfilled? Not just the keeping of the law (Addo's take on the word, "fulfilled" in verse 17 has no "till" before it, and his interpretation makes sense to me -- thanks Addo) The "all" that will be fulfilled includes the passing away of heaven and earth. That has not happened yet.

 

[Kira Light]

Except that, in context, this last verse covers a span of time that takes us to the end of time. "Till heaven and earth pass..."

So until such time as when heaven and earth passes away, the law remains in its present written form, every jot and tittle, till all be fulfilled. What is the "all" that will be fulfilled? Not just the keeping of the law (Addo's take on the word, "fulfilled" in verse 17 has no "till" before it, and his interpretation makes sense to me -- thanks Addo) The "all" that will be fulfilled includes the passing away of heaven and earth. That has not happened yet.

So the ceremonial stuff is still in place?

 

[k4c]

So the ceremonial stuff is still in place?

The ceremonial stuff has been fulfilled in Christ but the rest of the all that Jesus spoke of is alive and well. Sin still needs to be identified and repented for those who are in Christ and for those who are coming to Christ.

 

[k4c]

So the ceremonial stuff is still in place?

The ceremonial stuff has been fulfilled in Christ but the rest of the all that Jesus spoke of is still alive and well. Sin still needs to be identified and repented of for those who are in Christ and for those who are coming to Christ.

 

[Kira Light]

The ceremonial stuff has been fulfilled in Christ but the rest of the all that Jesus spoke of is alive and well. Sin still needs to be identified and repented for those who are in Christ and for those who are coming to Christ.

I thought every jot and tittle remain until earth passes away though....

 

[Sophia7]

The issue in Acts was not to set a standard for Gentile Christians. The issue was how one needed to be circumcisied in order to be saved.

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.''

Salvation comes through the new birth which does not come through works, but rather, through belief in the gospel.

Acts 15:7-9 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. "And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

To say the disciples had to add anything to the preaching of the gospel as a requirement for salvation was placing a yoke of bondage on the neck of the disciple's who were preaching salvation through grace.

Acts 15:10-11 "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."

He goes on to say how they shouldn't make things harder for new converts who are turning to God by giving them so much stuff all at once. Just tell them to abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Acts 15:19-20 'My verdict is, then, that instead of making things more difficult for gentiles who turn to God, we should send them a letter telling them merely to abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

This is not an end all list for Gentile Christians otherwise it would be okay for them to lie, steal, murder and so on.

All he is saying is, don't burden new converts with so many things all at once, let them learn over time as they attend church on the Sabbath because this is where they will learn all the other things because Moses is taught in church every Sabbath.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has always had his preachers in every town and is read aloud in the synagogues every Sabbath."

That short list of abstaining from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood was given to new converts because it was probably the main issues they were facing during that time but is was not meant to be an end all list for new believers.

Acts 15 certainly did set a standard for Gentile Christians. They were not required to be circumcised nor to submit themselves to the law. What Peter called "a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear" (15:10) is the same law to which Paul said in Galatians 5 that we should not subject ourselves:

1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
​

Circumcision bound people as slaves to the whole law--not only to what Adventists call "the ceremonial law" but to the whole law. However, Gentiles are not required to be circumcised, so we are not yoked to the law. We are not under the law at all, according to Galatians:

5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
​