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Correct that’s why scripture says the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations , we as Gods family will help them with that . But l
my Phone is acting up and sent before I was done. I was going to say that’s my hypothesis and again not a hill to die on just a way to try to make sense of the whole story.
You sound like a Calvinist right now. That’s the typical Calvinist argument but the problem with your statement here is that it is God who gave us His COVENANT. Just because God wants everyone to be saved doesn’t negate the fact that He laid down requirements for salvation and if we fail to meet those requirements we have broken the covenant. I tell my kids if they don’t clean their room they can’t go outside and play. I want them to go outside and play, but if they don’t follow thru with their part of the agreement they’re not going outside to play. Another thing you fail to recognize is that God has given man free will, both to either accept Him or to reject Him.
There’s nothing wrong with speculation, I have a few speculations of my own. I thought you were teaching this as an absolute certainty. I don’t think we should teach speculative beliefs as doctrine.
I’m not sure about eternal torment or annihilation, I can see evidence for both so my official position is neutral although I do tend to lean a bit more towards annihilation.
You believe God doesn’t get what he wants, I do. Gods telos is 1Cor 15:28 God will be all in all . Not in some . That is the end of the story. How he gets there , that’s what I am trying to figure out , but he will get there.
This is just my way of looking at the whole of scripture and trying to figure out how God is going to get to the telos of God being all in all , and the end to sin. This can only happen by either annihilating all the rebellious people or reconciliation of all his enemies. I believe that Gods nature and character are that of reconciliation, this is the greatest victory for God , this brings him more honor and is more in line with what Jesus, who said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, said by love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. If you win an enemy over with love that’s a much greater victory than annihilating them, for God to annihilate someone is not hard at all , but to win them over from loving them , now that’s true victory.
I’ve demonstrated by quoting scripture that God doesn’t always get what He wants. Does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked? Did He take pleasure in killing the wicked in the Flood? I really need an answer to these questions because I feel like you’re just ignoring them.
I have demonstrated from scripture that God does get all he wants. The difference is I am looking at the whole picture not just a snapshot of this age or the past ages. I like word pictures, think about this - If you saw a 2 minute clip of a person’s abdomen and a knife cutting it open and hands pulling out the intestines and cutting them up, and that’s all you saw you would think it’s barbaric . You would get the wrong impression because you are not looking at the whole story. Now if you watched the rest of the clip that showed that the knife was held by a surgeon who was operating on a person ( me) and removed a softball sized tumor that if left untreated would kill the body, you would see that first 2 minutes in a whole different light. Gods story for mankind is like that, if you look only to this age you will not get the whole story and much looks horrible. But if you look at the whole story you will see yes God had to remove some people from their mortal body and it looks tragic but in the end all will be well . All mortal bodies die , unless you are here for the second coming, but that’s not the end of the story, but that’s not the end . The end is when God will be all in all and sin and death will be no more. Not put in the corner and covered up so that sun and death go on for all eternity.
Incorrectly interpreted scripture.
The word "age" occurs 10 times in the N.T. it always refers to the age of a person. The words "This age", "next age" do not occur in the New Testament.
It takes a very proud man to say;
I don’t understand why the idea that an infinite God using finite terms, so we can understand is so hard to get. The scriptures are written from two perspectives, man’s and Gods. When scripture talks about the wrath of God , to us it looks horrible, but from Gods perspective it’s his love burning away all that is not of him. Everything God does is out of love , he can only do things out of love, he can’t go against his nature. That’s like I said God can’t get jealous, there is nothing that God can get jealous over, nothing threatens God in any way, but he has to use finite terms and language that we as finite people can relate to. I still stand by the statement that man has made God in their own image, man has made God no different than the old Greek/Roman gods , he is just bigger and more powerful that’s all. It’s the old Greek gods that get angry, jealous, does things he wishes he hadn’t, and willing to torture his creation for disobedience for all eternity. That is not the God of scripture. Like I said if you start with the wrong conclusion you don’t come to the correct answers.
But that’s the problem is you’re basing your doctrine on ambiguous passages that can mean almost anything. There’s no passage that says that anyone who is thrown into the lake of fire, whose soul is destroyed, ever gets out of the lake of fire and goes on to do anything. Look at the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Why do you think that Jesus made the point that no one is able to cross over from Abraham’s Bosom to Hades or vice versa? The Bible teaches that once people are thrown into the lake of fire that’s it, nothing more is said about them except eternal torment or annihilation of their soul. You’re trying to use ambiguous passages that can mean almost anything to conclude that they will at some point get out of the lake of fire and receive eternal life when all throughout the New Testament eternal life is being contrasted with death, not death then eternal life.
According to the approved by Der Alte, only correctly translated version of the sacred Scripture, the EOB? Excellent translation by the way. One of MANY excellent translations. None of which are collectively considered to be “The Definitive” translation by all of Christendom.
What exactly is your point when quoting these passages my brother? I need a bit of help here … What are you trying to communicate because you give no commentary. I’m not saying this sarcastically. For example. Is this intended to be a chronological outlay of how you see the end of all things? Help us, all thread readers, to understand by developing some surrounding context and thought process behind your post.
I was responding to a post, which I quoted showing that the post I was responding to was incorrect. I'm sorry that I do not read or quote from the official UR Bible. I suffer from knowledge. I started learning to speak Greek in 1959 supervising Greek employees on an Army base in Germany. I spoke German to them, thinking they were German, one corrected me saying, "You speak good German, we not German we Greek." I said, "So teach me to speak Greek." He pointed to a table and said "trapezi." [pronounced trah pay zee] I thought that sounds a lot like our word trapezoid. Not then knowing I would learn Greek at the graduate level 2 decades later. Again, I must apologize my studies required me to purchase the standard lexicons, unfortunately some folks reject such credible scholarship. My first Greek class meeting the professor said "Memorize the Greek alphabet and be prepared to read from the Greek new testament next class." At the next class when asked to read I apparently I was quite good the other students looked at me like I was from Mars.
There is no need to carry on as such my friend … Regardless of who/what you were responding to in your post; you listed these verses and I was trying to understand your reason for posting them? You have posted these as such several times in the past, with me, Jeff and most likely others as well. I just figured I might gain some insight into how these Scriptures relate to your opposition to UR.
