If you start with a wrong idea of God it’s extremely hard to get to the correct conclusion of what God has given us in scripture.

[jacks]

God has nothing he can or could be jealous of or over so my point is if you don’t understand Gods character and nature, you will read and believe that God can get jealous and he can’t that’s a human or god characteristics not the God of scripture.

Okay. My point was that it isn't a type of jealousy like you listed in your previous post. Those are emotional states. It is making the point that He is the one true God, don't put other gods (or anything) before Him.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

What you or I think "jealous " means is irrelevant. This is God speaking.

Exodus 20:5​

(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD [YHWH] thy God [Elohim] am a jealous God,[El] visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;​

Is it not you who has a problem with word definitions? How would you respond if I said what you or I think “Aion” means is irrelevant.

 

[Der Alte]

Is it not you who has a problem with word definitions? How would you respond if I said what you or I think “Aion” means is irrelevant.

Where have I ever given my unsupported opinion about anything especially the word "aion"? IIRC I showed from scripture how the word is defined and I could quote the complete definition from BDAG.

αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ (Hom.+; gener. ‘an extended period of time’, in var. senses) ① a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end, ⓐ of time gone by, the past, earliest times, readily suggesting a venerable or awesome eld οἱ ἅγιοι ἀπʼ αἰῶνος προφῆται the holy prophets fr. time immemorial (cp. Hes., Theog. 609; Περὶ ὕψους 34, 4 τοὺς ἀπʼ αἰ. ῥήτορας; Cass. Dio 63, 20 τῶν ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰ. Ῥωμαίων; IMagnMai 180, 4; SIG index; Gen 6:4; Tob 4:12; Sir 14:17; 51:8; En 14:1; 99:14; Jos., Bell. 1, 12; Just., D. 11, 1) Lk 1:70; Ac 3:21; make known from of old Ac 15:18; πρὸ παντὸς τ. αἰ. before time began Jd 25a (for the combination with πᾶς cp. Sallust. 20 p. 36, 5 τὸν πάντα αἰῶνα=through all eternity); pl. πρὸ τῶν αἰ. 1 Cor 2:7 (cp. Ps 54:20 θεὸς ὁ ὑπάρχων πρὸ τῶν αἰ. [PGM 4, 3067 ἀπὸ τ. ἱερῶν αἰώνων]); ἐξ αἰ. since the beginning D 16:4 (Diod S 1, 6, 3; 3, 20, 2; 4, 83, 3; 5, 2, 3; Sext. Emp., Math. 9, 62; OGI 669, 61; Philo, Somn. 1, 19; Jos., Bell. 5, 442; Sir 1:4; SibOr Fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος). W. neg. foll. ἐκ τοῦ αἰῶνος οὐκ ἠκούσθη never has it been heard J 9:32. ⓑ of time to come which, if it has no end, is also known as eternity (so commonly in Gk. lit. Pla. et al.); εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα (since Isocr. 10, 62, also Diod S 1, 56, 1 εἰς τ. αἰ.=εἰς ἅπαντα τ. χρόνον; 4, 1, 4; SIG 814, 49 and OGI index VIII; POxy 41, 30=‘Long live the Caesars’; PGM 8, 33; 4, 1051 [εἰς αἰ.]; LXX; En 12:6; 102:3; PsSol 2:34, 37; ParJer 8:5; JosAs 15:3 εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα χρόνον 4:10 al. Jos., Ant. 7, 356 [εἰς αἰ.]) to eternity, eternally, in perpetuity: live J 6:51, 58; B 6:3; remain J 8:35ab; 12:34; 2 Cor 9:9 (Ps 111:9); 1 Pt 1:23 v.l., 25 (Is 40:8); 1J 2:17; 2J 2; be with someone J 14:16. Be priest Hb 5:6; 6:20; 7:17, 21, 24, 28 (each Ps 109:4). Darkness reserved Jd 13. W. neg.=never, not at all, never again (Ps 124:1; Ezk 27:36 al.) Mt 21:19; Mk 3:29; 11:14; 1 Cor 8:13. ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX) 1 Cl 10:4 (Gen 13:15); Hv 2, 3, 3; Hs 9, 24, 4. In Johannine usage the term is used formulaically without emphasis on eternity (Lackeit [s. 4 below] 32f): never again thirst J 4:14; never see death 8:51f; cp. 11:26; never be lost 10:28; never (= by no means) 13:8. εἰς τὸν αἰ. τοῦ αἰῶνος (Ps 44:18; 82:18 al.) Hb 1:8 (Ps 44:7). ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX; PsSol 18:11) Lk 1:55 v.l. (for εἰς τὸν αἰ.); εἰς ἡμέραν αἰῶνος 2 Pt 3:18.—The pl. is also used (Emped., Fgm. 129, 6 αἰῶνες=generations; Theocr. 16, 43 μακροὺς αἰῶνας=long periods of time; Philod. περὶ θεῶν 3 Fgm. 84; Sext. Emp., Phys. 1, 62 εἰς αἰῶνας διαμένει; SibOr 3, 767; LXX, En; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 3 [Stone p. 72].—B-D-F §141, 1), esp. in doxologies: εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας (Ps 60:5; 76:8) Mt 6:13 v.l.; Lk 1:33 (cp. Wsd 3:8); Hb 13:8. εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ. (Tob 13:4; Da 3:52b; En 9:4; SibOr 3, 50) Jd 25b. εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας to all eternity (cp. Ps 88:53) Ro 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor 11:31. αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰ. Ro 11:36; ᾧ κτλ. 16:27 (v.l. αὐτῷ). τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰ. 1 Pt 5:11; more fully εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων (Ps 83:5; GrBar 17:4; PGM 4, 1038; 22b, 15) for evermore in doxologies Ro 16:27 v.l.; Gal 1:5; Phil 4:20; 1 Ti 1:17; 2 Ti 4:18; Hb 13:21; 1 Pt 4:11; 5:11 v.l.; Rv 1:6, 18; 5:13; 7:12; 11:15 al. 1 Cl 20:12; 32:4; 38:4; 43:6; εἰς πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰ. Eph 3:21 (cp. Tob 1:4; 13:12; En 103:4; 104:5). Of God ὁ ζῶν εἰς τοὺς αἰ. (cp. Tob 13:2; Sir 18:1; Da 6:27 Theod.) Rv 4:9f; 10:6; 15:7; formulaically=eternal 14:11; 19:3; 20:10; 22:5.—κατὰ πρόθεσιν τῶν αἰώνων according to the eternal purpose Eph 3:11. All-inclusive ἀπὸ αἰώνων καὶ εἰς τ. αἰῶνας from (past) eternity to (future) eternity B 18:2 (cp. Ps 40:14 and Ps.-Aristot., De Mundo 7, 401a, 16 ἐξ αἰῶνος ἀτέρμονος εἰς ἕτερον αἰῶνα; M. Ant. 9, 28, 1 ἐξ αἰῶνος εἰς αἰῶνα; SibOr Fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος). ② a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age ⓐ ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος (הָעוֹלָם הַזֶּה) the present age (nearing its end) (Orig., C. Cels. 1, 13, 15, in ref. to 1 Cor 3:18; s. Bousset, Rel. 243ff; Dalman, Worte 120ff; Schürer II 537f; NMessel, D. Einheitlichkeit d. jüd. Eschatol. 1915, 44–60) contrasted w. the age to come (Philo and Joseph. do not have the two aeons) Mt 12:32. A time of sin and misery Hv 1, 1, 8; Hs 3:1ff; ending of Mk in the Freer ms. 2; ἡ μέριμνα τοῦ αἰ. (v.l. + τούτου) the cares of the present age Mt 13:22; pl. cp. Mk 4:19. πλοῦτος earthly riches Hv 3, 6, 5. ματαιώματα vain, futile things Hm 9:4; Hs 5, 3, 6. πραγματεῖαι m 10, 1, 4. ἐπιθυμία m 11:8; Hs 6, 2, 3; 7:2; 8, 11, 3. πονηρία Hs 6, 1, 4. ἀπάται Hs 6, 3, 3 v.l. οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ αἰ. τούτου the children of this age, the people of the world (opp. children of light, enlightened ones) Lk 16:8; 20:34.—The earthly kingdoms βασιλεῖαι τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IRo 6:1. συσχηματίζεσθαι τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ be conformed to this world Ro 12:2. As well as everything non-Christian, it includes the striving after worldly wisdom: συζητητὴς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου searcher after the wisdom of this world 1 Cor 1:20. σοφία τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2:6. ἐν τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ 3:18 prob. belongs to what precedes=those who consider themselves wise in this age must become fools (in the estimation of this age). The ruler of this age is the devil: ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2 Cor 4:4 (θεός 5). ἄρχων τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IEph 17:1; 19:1; IMg 1:3; ITr 4:2; IRo 7:1; IPhld 6:2; his subordinate spirits are the ἄρχοντες τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 1 Cor 2:6, 8 (ἄρχων 1c).—Also ὁ νῦν αἰών (Did., Gen. 148, 21): πλούσιοι ἐν τῷ νῦν αἰ. 1 Ti 6:17; ἀγαπᾶν τὸν νῦν αἰ. 2 Ti 4:10; Pol 9:2. Cp. Tit 2:12. Or (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 42, 30) ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐνεστώς the present age Gal 1:4 (cp. SIG 797, 9 [37 a.d.] αἰῶνος νῦν ἐνεστῶτος). The end of this period (cp. SibOr 3, 756 μέχρι τέρματος αἰῶνος) συντέλεια (τοῦ) αἰ. Mt 13:39f, 49; 24:3; 28:20 (cp. TestJob 4:6; TestBenj 11:3; JRobinson, Texts and Studies V introd. 86). συντέλεια τῶν αἰ. Hb 9:26; on GMary 463, 1 s. καιρός end. ⓑ ὁ αἰὼν μέλλων (הָעוֹלָם הַבָּא) the age to come, the Messianic period (on the expr. cp. Demosth. 18, 199; Hippocr., Ep. 10, 6 ὁ μ. αἰ.=the future, all future time; Ael. Aristid. 46 p. 310 D.: ἡ τοῦ παρελθόντος χρόνου μνεία κ. ὁ τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος λόγος; Jos., Ant. 18, 287; Ar. 15, 3; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 24, 20; Did., Gen. 164, 2) in 2 Cl 6:3, cp. Hs 4:2ff, opposed to the αἰὼν οὗτος both in time and quality, cp. Mt 12:32; Eph 1:21; δυνάμεις μέλλοντος αἰ. Hb 6:5. Also αἰ. ἐκεῖνος: τοῦ αἰ. ἐκείνου τυχεῖν take part in the age to come Lk 20:35. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐρχόμενος Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30; Hs 4:2, 8. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐπερχόμενος Hv 4, 3, 5: pl. ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις in the ages to come Eph 2:7. As a holy age ὁ ἅγιος αἰ. (opp. οὗτος ὁ κόσμος; cp. εἰς τὸν μείζονα αἰ. TestJob 47:3) B 10:11 and as a time of perfection αἰ. ἀλύπητος an age free from sorrow 2 Cl 19:4 (cp. αἰ. … τοῦ ἀπαραλλάκτου TestJob 33:5), while the present αἰών is an ‘aeon of pain’ (Slav. Enoch 65, 8).—The plurals 1 Cor 10:11 have been explained by some as referring to both ages, i.e. the end-point of the first and beginning of the second; this view urges that the earliest Christians believed that the two ages came together during their own lifetimes: we, upon whom the ends of the ages have come (JWeiss. A Greek would not refer to the beginning as τέλος. The Gordian knot has οὔτε τέλος οὔτε ἀρχή: Arrian, Anab. 2, 3, 7). But since τὰ τέλη can also mean ‘end’ in the singular (Ael. Aristid. 44, 17 K.=17 p. 406 D.: σώματος ἀρχαὶ κ. τέλη=‘beginning and end’; 39 p. 737 D.: τὰ τέλη … δράματος; Longus 1, 23, 1 ms. ἦρος τέλη; Vi. Thu. 2, 2 [=OxfT ΘΟΥΚΥΔΙΔΟΥ ΒΙΟΣ 2] τέλη τοῦ πολέμου; Aëtius, Eye Diseases p. 120, 25 Hirschb. after Galen: τὰ τέλη τ. λόγου=the close of the section; Philo, Virt. 182) and, on the other hand, the pl. αἰῶνες is often purely formal (s. above 1a and b, 2a at end) τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰ. can perh. be regarded as equal to τέλος αἰώνων (SibOr 8, 311)=the end of the age(s). Cp. TestLevi 14:1 ἐπὶ τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰώνων.—For the essential equivalence of sing. and pl. cp. Maximus Tyr. 14, 8b τὰ τῆς κολακείας τέλη beside τέλος τῆς σπουδῆς. Cp. also τέλος 5. ③ the world as a spatial concept, the world (αἰ. in sg. and pl. [B-D-F §141, 1]: Hippocr., Ep. 17, 34; Diod S 1, 1, 3 God rules ἅπαντα τὸν αἰῶνα; Ael. Aristid. 20, 13 K.=21 p. 434 D.: ἐκ τοῦ παντὸς αἰῶνος; Maximus Tyr. 11, 5e; IAndrosIsis, Cyrene 4 [103 a.d.] P. p. 129]; Ps 65:7; Ex 15:18 [cp. Philo, Plant. 47; 51]; Wsd 13:9; 14:6; 18:4; αἰῶνες οἱ κρείττονε Tat. 20:2) ApcPt 4:14. Created by God through the Son Hb 1:2; through God’s word 11:3. Hence God is βασιλεὺς τῶν αἰ. 1 Ti 1:17; Rv 15:3 (v.l. for ἐθνῶν); 1 Cl 61:2 (cp. PGM 12, 247 αἰώνων βασιλεῦ; Tob 13:7, 11, cp. AcPh 2 and 11 [Aa II/2, 2, 20 and 6, 9]); πατὴρ τῶν αἰ. 35:3 (cp. Just., A I, 41, 2; AcPh 144 [Aa II/2, 84, 9]); θεὸς τῶν αἰ. 55:6 (cp. Sir 36:17; ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰ.; En 1:4; PGM 4, 1163; TSchermann, Griech. Zauber-pap 1909, 23; AcJ 82 [Aa II/1, 191, 24f]). But many of these pass. may belong under 2. ④ the Aeon as a person, the Aeon (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 268 index under Aion, Taufe 391 index; Epict. 2, 5, 13 οὐ γάρ εἰμι αἰών, ἀλλʼ ἄνθρωπος=I am not a being that lasts forever, but a human being [and therefore I know that whatever is must pass away]; Mesomedes 1, 17=Coll. Alex. p. 197, 17; Simplicius in Epict. p. 81, 15 οἱ αἰῶνες beside the μήτηρ τῆς ζωῆς and the δημιουργός; En 9:4 κύριος τ. κυρίων καὶ θεὸς τ. θεῶν κ. βασιλεὺς τ. αἰώνων; PGM 4, 520; 1169; 2198; 2314; 3168; 5, 468; AcPh 132 [Aa II/2, 63, 5]; Kephal. I p. 24, 6; 45, 7) ὁ αἰ. τοῦ κόσμου τούτου Eph 2:2. The secret hidden from the Aeons Col 1:26; Eph 3:9 (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 235f); IEph 19:2 (Rtzst. 86, 3); cp. 8:1 (Rtzst. 236, 2). Various other meanings have been suggested for these passages.—CLackeit, Aion I, diss. Königsbg. 1916; EBurton, ICC Gal 1921, 426–32; HJunker, Iran. Quellen d. hellenist. Aionvorstellung: Vortr. d. Bibl. Warburg I 1923, 125ff; ENorden, D. Geburt des Kindes 1924; MZepf, D. Gott Αιων in d. hellenist. Theologie: ARW 25, 1927, 225–44; ANock, HTR 27, 1934, 78–99=Essays I, ’72, 377–96; RLöwe, Kosmos u. Aion ’35; EOwen, αἰών and αἰώνιος: JTS 37, ’36, 265–83; 390–404; EJenni, Das Wort ʿōlām im AT: ZAW 64, ’52, 197–248; 65, ’53, 1–35; KDeichgräber, RGG I3 193–95; HSasse, RAC I 193–204; MNilsson, Die Rel. in den gr. Zauberpapyri, K. humanist. Vetenskapssamfundets Lund II ’47/48, 81f; GJennings, A Survey of αιων and αιωνιος and their meaning in the NT, ’48; GStadtmüller, Aion: Saeculum 2, ’51, 315–20 (lit.); EDegani, ΑΙΩΝ da Omero ad Aristotele ’61 (s. Classen, Gnomon 34, ’62, 366–70; D.’s reply in RivFil 91, ’63, 104–10); MTreu, Griech. Ewigkeitswörter, Glotta 43, ’65, 1–24; JBarr, Biblical Words for Time2 ’69; OCullman, Christus u. die Zeit3 ’62.—B. 13. EDNT. DDD s.v. Aion. DELG. M-M. TW. Sv.​

​

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 32–33.​

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Where have I ever given my unsupported opinion about anything especially the word "aion"? IIRC I showed from scripture how the word is defined and I could quote the complete definition from BDAG.

αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ (Hom.+; gener. ‘an extended period of time’, in var. senses) ① a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end, ⓐ of time gone by, the past, earliest times, readily suggesting a venerable or awesome eld οἱ ἅγιοι ἀπʼ αἰῶνος προφῆται the holy prophets fr. time immemorial (cp. Hes., Theog. 609; Περὶ ὕψους 34, 4 τοὺς ἀπʼ αἰ. ῥήτορας; Cass. Dio 63, 20 τῶν ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰ. Ῥωμαίων; IMagnMai 180, 4; SIG index; Gen 6:4; Tob 4:12; Sir 14:17; 51:8; En 14:1; 99:14; Jos., Bell. 1, 12; Just., D. 11, 1) Lk 1:70; Ac 3:21; make known from of old Ac 15:18; πρὸ παντὸς τ. αἰ. before time began Jd 25a (for the combination with πᾶς cp. Sallust. 20 p. 36, 5 τὸν πάντα αἰῶνα=through all eternity); pl. πρὸ τῶν αἰ. 1 Cor 2:7 (cp. Ps 54:20 θεὸς ὁ ὑπάρχων πρὸ τῶν αἰ. [PGM 4, 3067 ἀπὸ τ. ἱερῶν αἰώνων]); ἐξ αἰ. since the beginning D 16:4 (Diod S 1, 6, 3; 3, 20, 2; 4, 83, 3; 5, 2, 3; Sext. Emp., Math. 9, 62; OGI 669, 61; Philo, Somn. 1, 19; Jos., Bell. 5, 442; Sir 1:4; SibOr Fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος). W. neg. foll. ἐκ τοῦ αἰῶνος οὐκ ἠκούσθη never has it been heard J 9:32. ⓑ of time to come which, if it has no end, is also known as eternity (so commonly in Gk. lit. Pla. et al.); εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα (since Isocr. 10, 62, also Diod S 1, 56, 1 εἰς τ. αἰ.=εἰς ἅπαντα τ. χρόνον; 4, 1, 4; SIG 814, 49 and OGI index VIII; POxy 41, 30=‘Long live the Caesars’; PGM 8, 33; 4, 1051 [εἰς αἰ.]; LXX; En 12:6; 102:3; PsSol 2:34, 37; ParJer 8:5; JosAs 15:3 εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα χρόνον 4:10 al. Jos., Ant. 7, 356 [εἰς αἰ.]) to eternity, eternally, in perpetuity: live J 6:51, 58; B 6:3; remain J 8:35ab; 12:34; 2 Cor 9:9 (Ps 111:9); 1 Pt 1:23 v.l., 25 (Is 40:8); 1J 2:17; 2J 2; be with someone J 14:16. Be priest Hb 5:6; 6:20; 7:17, 21, 24, 28 (each Ps 109:4). Darkness reserved Jd 13. W. neg.=never, not at all, never again (Ps 124:1; Ezk 27:36 al.) Mt 21:19; Mk 3:29; 11:14; 1 Cor 8:13. ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX) 1 Cl 10:4 (Gen 13:15); Hv 2, 3, 3; Hs 9, 24, 4. In Johannine usage the term is used formulaically without emphasis on eternity (Lackeit [s. 4 below] 32f): never again thirst J 4:14; never see death 8:51f; cp. 11:26; never be lost 10:28; never (= by no means) 13:8. εἰς τὸν αἰ. τοῦ αἰῶνος (Ps 44:18; 82:18 al.) Hb 1:8 (Ps 44:7). ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX; PsSol 18:11) Lk 1:55 v.l. (for εἰς τὸν αἰ.); εἰς ἡμέραν αἰῶνος 2 Pt 3:18.—The pl. is also used (Emped., Fgm. 129, 6 αἰῶνες=generations; Theocr. 16, 43 μακροὺς αἰῶνας=long periods of time; Philod. περὶ θεῶν 3 Fgm. 84; Sext. Emp., Phys. 1, 62 εἰς αἰῶνας διαμένει; SibOr 3, 767; LXX, En; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 3 [Stone p. 72].—B-D-F §141, 1), esp. in doxologies: εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας (Ps 60:5; 76:8) Mt 6:13 v.l.; Lk 1:33 (cp. Wsd 3:8); Hb 13:8. εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ. (Tob 13:4; Da 3:52b; En 9:4; SibOr 3, 50) Jd 25b. εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας to all eternity (cp. Ps 88:53) Ro 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor 11:31. αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰ. Ro 11:36; ᾧ κτλ. 16:27 (v.l. αὐτῷ). τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰ. 1 Pt 5:11; more fully εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων (Ps 83:5; GrBar 17:4; PGM 4, 1038; 22b, 15) for evermore in doxologies Ro 16:27 v.l.; Gal 1:5; Phil 4:20; 1 Ti 1:17; 2 Ti 4:18; Hb 13:21; 1 Pt 4:11; 5:11 v.l.; Rv 1:6, 18; 5:13; 7:12; 11:15 al. 1 Cl 20:12; 32:4; 38:4; 43:6; εἰς πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰ. Eph 3:21 (cp. Tob 1:4; 13:12; En 103:4; 104:5). Of God ὁ ζῶν εἰς τοὺς αἰ. (cp. Tob 13:2; Sir 18:1; Da 6:27 Theod.) Rv 4:9f; 10:6; 15:7; formulaically=eternal 14:11; 19:3; 20:10; 22:5.—κατὰ πρόθεσιν τῶν αἰώνων according to the eternal purpose Eph 3:11. All-inclusive ἀπὸ αἰώνων καὶ εἰς τ. αἰῶνας from (past) eternity to (future) eternity B 18:2 (cp. Ps 40:14 and Ps.-Aristot., De Mundo 7, 401a, 16 ἐξ αἰῶνος ἀτέρμονος εἰς ἕτερον αἰῶνα; M. Ant. 9, 28, 1 ἐξ αἰῶνος εἰς αἰῶνα; SibOr Fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος). ② a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age ⓐ ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος (הָעוֹלָם הַזֶּה) the present age (nearing its end) (Orig., C. Cels. 1, 13, 15, in ref. to 1 Cor 3:18; s. Bousset, Rel. 243ff; Dalman, Worte 120ff; Schürer II 537f; NMessel, D. Einheitlichkeit d. jüd. Eschatol. 1915, 44–60) contrasted w. the age to come (Philo and Joseph. do not have the two aeons) Mt 12:32. A time of sin and misery Hv 1, 1, 8; Hs 3:1ff; ending of Mk in the Freer ms. 2; ἡ μέριμνα τοῦ αἰ. (v.l. + τούτου) the cares of the present age Mt 13:22; pl. cp. Mk 4:19. πλοῦτος earthly riches Hv 3, 6, 5. ματαιώματα vain, futile things Hm 9:4; Hs 5, 3, 6. πραγματεῖαι m 10, 1, 4. ἐπιθυμία m 11:8; Hs 6, 2, 3; 7:2; 8, 11, 3. πονηρία Hs 6, 1, 4. ἀπάται Hs 6, 3, 3 v.l. οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ αἰ. τούτου the children of this age, the people of the world (opp. children of light, enlightened ones) Lk 16:8; 20:34.—The earthly kingdoms βασιλεῖαι τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IRo 6:1. συσχηματίζεσθαι τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ be conformed to this world Ro 12:2. As well as everything non-Christian, it includes the striving after worldly wisdom: συζητητὴς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου searcher after the wisdom of this world 1 Cor 1:20. σοφία τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2:6. ἐν τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ 3:18 prob. belongs to what precedes=those who consider themselves wise in this age must become fools (in the estimation of this age). The ruler of this age is the devil: ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2 Cor 4:4 (θεός 5). ἄρχων τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IEph 17:1; 19:1; IMg 1:3; ITr 4:2; IRo 7:1; IPhld 6:2; his subordinate spirits are the ἄρχοντες τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 1 Cor 2:6, 8 (ἄρχων 1c).—Also ὁ νῦν αἰών (Did., Gen. 148, 21): πλούσιοι ἐν τῷ νῦν αἰ. 1 Ti 6:17; ἀγαπᾶν τὸν νῦν αἰ. 2 Ti 4:10; Pol 9:2. Cp. Tit 2:12. Or (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 42, 30) ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐνεστώς the present age Gal 1:4 (cp. SIG 797, 9 [37 a.d.] αἰῶνος νῦν ἐνεστῶτος). The end of this period (cp. SibOr 3, 756 μέχρι τέρματος αἰῶνος) συντέλεια (τοῦ) αἰ. Mt 13:39f, 49; 24:3; 28:20 (cp. TestJob 4:6; TestBenj 11:3; JRobinson, Texts and Studies V introd. 86). συντέλεια τῶν αἰ. Hb 9:26; on GMary 463, 1 s. καιρός end. ⓑ ὁ αἰὼν μέλλων (הָעוֹלָם הַבָּא) the age to come, the Messianic period (on the expr. cp. Demosth. 18, 199; Hippocr., Ep. 10, 6 ὁ μ. αἰ.=the future, all future time; Ael. Aristid. 46 p. 310 D.: ἡ τοῦ παρελθόντος χρόνου μνεία κ. ὁ τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος λόγος; Jos., Ant. 18, 287; Ar. 15, 3; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 24, 20; Did., Gen. 164, 2) in 2 Cl 6:3, cp. Hs 4:2ff, opposed to the αἰὼν οὗτος both in time and quality, cp. Mt 12:32; Eph 1:21; δυνάμεις μέλλοντος αἰ. Hb 6:5. Also αἰ. ἐκεῖνος: τοῦ αἰ. ἐκείνου τυχεῖν take part in the age to come Lk 20:35. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐρχόμενος Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30; Hs 4:2, 8. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐπερχόμενος Hv 4, 3, 5: pl. ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις in the ages to come Eph 2:7. As a holy age ὁ ἅγιος αἰ. (opp. οὗτος ὁ κόσμος; cp. εἰς τὸν μείζονα αἰ. TestJob 47:3) B 10:11 and as a time of perfection αἰ. ἀλύπητος an age free from sorrow 2 Cl 19:4 (cp. αἰ. … τοῦ ἀπαραλλάκτου TestJob 33:5), while the present αἰών is an ‘aeon of pain’ (Slav. Enoch 65, 8).—The plurals 1 Cor 10:11 have been explained by some as referring to both ages, i.e. the end-point of the first and beginning of the second; this view urges that the earliest Christians believed that the two ages came together during their own lifetimes: we, upon whom the ends of the ages have come (JWeiss. A Greek would not refer to the beginning as τέλος. The Gordian knot has οὔτε τέλος οὔτε ἀρχή: Arrian, Anab. 2, 3, 7). But since τὰ τέλη can also mean ‘end’ in the singular (Ael. Aristid. 44, 17 K.=17 p. 406 D.: σώματος ἀρχαὶ κ. τέλη=‘beginning and end’; 39 p. 737 D.: τὰ τέλη … δράματος; Longus 1, 23, 1 ms. ἦρος τέλη; Vi. Thu. 2, 2 [=OxfT ΘΟΥΚΥΔΙΔΟΥ ΒΙΟΣ 2] τέλη τοῦ πολέμου; Aëtius, Eye Diseases p. 120, 25 Hirschb. after Galen: τὰ τέλη τ. λόγου=the close of the section; Philo, Virt. 182) and, on the other hand, the pl. αἰῶνες is often purely formal (s. above 1a and b, 2a at end) τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰ. can perh. be regarded as equal to τέλος αἰώνων (SibOr 8, 311)=the end of the age(s). Cp. TestLevi 14:1 ἐπὶ τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰώνων.—For the essential equivalence of sing. and pl. cp. Maximus Tyr. 14, 8b τὰ τῆς κολακείας τέλη beside τέλος τῆς σπουδῆς. Cp. also τέλος 5. ③ the world as a spatial concept, the world (αἰ. in sg. and pl. [B-D-F §141, 1]: Hippocr., Ep. 17, 34; Diod S 1, 1, 3 God rules ἅπαντα τὸν αἰῶνα; Ael. Aristid. 20, 13 K.=21 p. 434 D.: ἐκ τοῦ παντὸς αἰῶνος; Maximus Tyr. 11, 5e; IAndrosIsis, Cyrene 4 [103 a.d.] P. p. 129]; Ps 65:7; Ex 15:18 [cp. Philo, Plant. 47; 51]; Wsd 13:9; 14:6; 18:4; αἰῶνες οἱ κρείττονε Tat. 20:2) ApcPt 4:14. Created by God through the Son Hb 1:2; through God’s word 11:3. Hence God is βασιλεὺς τῶν αἰ. 1 Ti 1:17; Rv 15:3 (v.l. for ἐθνῶν); 1 Cl 61:2 (cp. PGM 12, 247 αἰώνων βασιλεῦ; Tob 13:7, 11, cp. AcPh 2 and 11 [Aa II/2, 2, 20 and 6, 9]); πατὴρ τῶν αἰ. 35:3 (cp. Just., A I, 41, 2; AcPh 144 [Aa II/2, 84, 9]); θεὸς τῶν αἰ. 55:6 (cp. Sir 36:17; ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰ.; En 1:4; PGM 4, 1163; TSchermann, Griech. Zauber-pap 1909, 23; AcJ 82 [Aa II/1, 191, 24f]). But many of these pass. may belong under 2. ④ the Aeon as a person, the Aeon (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 268 index under Aion, Taufe 391 index; Epict. 2, 5, 13 οὐ γάρ εἰμι αἰών, ἀλλʼ ἄνθρωπος=I am not a being that lasts forever, but a human being [and therefore I know that whatever is must pass away]; Mesomedes 1, 17=Coll. Alex. p. 197, 17; Simplicius in Epict. p. 81, 15 οἱ αἰῶνες beside the μήτηρ τῆς ζωῆς and the δημιουργός; En 9:4 κύριος τ. κυρίων καὶ θεὸς τ. θεῶν κ. βασιλεὺς τ. αἰώνων; PGM 4, 520; 1169; 2198; 2314; 3168; 5, 468; AcPh 132 [Aa II/2, 63, 5]; Kephal. I p. 24, 6; 45, 7) ὁ αἰ. τοῦ κόσμου τούτου Eph 2:2. The secret hidden from the Aeons Col 1:26; Eph 3:9 (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 235f); IEph 19:2 (Rtzst. 86, 3); cp. 8:1 (Rtzst. 236, 2). Various other meanings have been suggested for these passages.—CLackeit, Aion I, diss. Königsbg. 1916; EBurton, ICC Gal 1921, 426–32; HJunker, Iran. Quellen d. hellenist. Aionvorstellung: Vortr. d. Bibl. Warburg I 1923, 125ff; ENorden, D. Geburt des Kindes 1924; MZepf, D. Gott Αιων in d. hellenist. Theologie: ARW 25, 1927, 225–44; ANock, HTR 27, 1934, 78–99=Essays I, ’72, 377–96; RLöwe, Kosmos u. Aion ’35; EOwen, αἰών and αἰώνιος: JTS 37, ’36, 265–83; 390–404; EJenni, Das Wort ʿōlām im AT: ZAW 64, ’52, 197–248; 65, ’53, 1–35; KDeichgräber, RGG I3 193–95; HSasse, RAC I 193–204; MNilsson, Die Rel. in den gr. Zauberpapyri, K. humanist. Vetenskapssamfundets Lund II ’47/48, 81f; GJennings, A Survey of αιων and αιωνιος and their meaning in the NT, ’48; GStadtmüller, Aion: Saeculum 2, ’51, 315–20 (lit.); EDegani, ΑΙΩΝ da Omero ad Aristotele ’61 (s. Classen, Gnomon 34, ’62, 366–70; D.’s reply in RivFil 91, ’63, 104–10); MTreu, Griech. Ewigkeitswörter, Glotta 43, ’65, 1–24; JBarr, Biblical Words for Time2 ’69; OCullman, Christus u. die Zeit3 ’62.—B. 13. EDNT. DDD s.v. Aion. DELG. M-M. TW. Sv.​

​

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 32–33.​

Yes you always give your cut and paste answer that you approve, but there are other scholarly works that give a different definition, you believe in one definition others believe in a different definition. It’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be , otherwise there would be no discussion.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

That’s a funny question from one doesn’t believe scripture as written himself. 1Tim 4:9-11 because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL men, especially of those who believe. Do you have a problem with scripture as it is written?

Still waiting on reply. Do you really believe all scriptures as written. Tell me how I am wrong this verse.

 

[Der Alte]

Yes you always give your cut and paste answer that you approve, but there are other scholarly works that give a different definition, you believe in one definition others believe in a different definition. It’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be , otherwise there would be no discussion.

Incorrecto! IIRC all I have seen are copy/pastes where some alleged scholars said "Aionios never means eternal." I have NOT seen any credible scholarship such as I have posted e.g.. BDAG Greek lexicon and BDB Hebrew lexicon. BDAG represents about 120-160 yrs of combined scholarship and lists approx 40-50 ancient sources the scholars consulted determining the correct definition. BDB represents approx 90-120 yrs of combined scholarship and lists approx 30-40 ancient sources the scholars consulted determining the correct definition. To show either is incorrect one would have to review most of the sources cited and demonstrate how the lexicons are wrong. Some anonymous "scholar" saying "Nuh Uh 'aionios' never means eternal." is NOT a scholarly work and means nothing.

 

[Der Alte]

That’s a funny question from one doesn’t believe scripture as written himself. 1Tim 4:9-11 because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL men, especially of those who believe. Do you have a problem with scripture as it is written?

Actually you are the one who does not believe scripture "as written." For example,

Jeremiah 13:11-14​

(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.​

(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Does this mean exactly what it says without adding/inserting any other words in the text?

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day,[judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says NEVER He does not mean some day by and by. Does this mean exactly what it says without adding/inserting any other words in the text?
Here are a few more vss.

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Actually you are the one who does not believe scripture "as written." For example,

Jeremiah 13:11-14​

(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.​

(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Does this mean exactly what it says without adding/inserting any other words in the text?

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day,[judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says NEVER He does not mean some day by and by. Does this mean exactly what it says without adding/inserting any other words in the text?
Here are a few more vss.

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

Typical response, I give you a scripture and you refuse to address the scripture I asked about but instead give a bunch of other scripture as if that answers the question. Please tell me how the plain reading of 1Tim 4: 9-10 is incorrect. Deal with this verse and why you think scripture is wrong in the plain reading.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Actually you are the one who does not believe scripture "as written." For example,

Jeremiah 13:11-14​

(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.​

(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Does this mean exactly what it says without adding/inserting any other words in the text?

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day,[judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says NEVER He does not mean some day by and by. Does this mean exactly what it says without adding/inserting any other words in the text?
Here are a few more vss.

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

Still waiting for reply to 1Tim 4:9-11 . It’s ok to say you don’t want to discuss this verse, it’s a hard one to explain if you read the text as written.

 

[Der Alte]

Typical response, I give you a scripture and you refuse to address the scripture I asked about but instead give a bunch of other scripture as if that answers the question. Please tell me how the plain reading of 1Tim 4: 9-10 is incorrect. Deal with this verse and why you think scripture is wrong in the plain reading.

I have answered in other posts but you ignore it or insert a lot of baloney about this age, the next age etc.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never" He does not mean some day by and by. And before you even go there I don't want to hear anything about "this age,""the next age." etc. since those words do not appear in Matthew anywhere. I just checked. In fact the words "this age", "the next age" etc. do not occur anywhere in all 4 gospels.
Jesus is the Saviour of all mankind BUT the Saviour of all mankind tells many "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

1 Timothy 4:10​

(10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.​

1 Timothy 5:6​

Also written by Paul​

1 Timothy 1:15​

(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.​

1 Timothy 1:20​

(20) Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.​

1 Timothy 4:1​

(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;​

1 Timothy 4:2​

(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;​

1 Tim 56) But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.​

1 Timothy 6:4​

(4) He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,​

1 Timothy 6:5​

(5) Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.​

2 Timothy 2:26​

(26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

Also written by Paul

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I have answered in other posts but you ignore it or insert a lot of baloney about this age, the next age etc.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never" He does not mean some day by and by. And before you even go there I don't want to hear anything about "this age,""the next age." etc. since those words do not appear in Matthew anywhere. I just checked. In fact the words "this age", "the next age" etc. do not occur anywhere in all 4 gospels.
Jesus is the Saviour of all mankind BUT the Saviour of all mankind tells many "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

1 Timothy 4:10​

(10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.​

1 Timothy 5:6​

Also written by Paul​

1 Timothy 1:15​

(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.​

1 Timothy 1:20​

(20) Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.​

1 Timothy 4:1​

(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;​

1 Timothy 4:2​

(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;​

1 Tim 56) But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.​

1 Timothy 6:4​

(4) He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,​

1 Timothy 6:5​

(5) Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.​

2 Timothy 2:26​

(26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

Also written by Paul

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

Wow I found a few examples of age or age long in all 4 gospels-Matt 6:13-Matt 19:29 / Mark 3:29- Luke 10:25- Luke 18:30 ( this is a good one because it has it twice) I think you would have to read it as - who will not receive many times as much at this time and the eternity to come , eternal life . / John 11:26- John 8:51 all have either age or page to come when translated properly. I think when you are ready for the teaching it will come , but maybe this is a lesson you are not ready for yet.

 

[Lukaris]

I understand God is love ( 1 John 4:8) & St. Paul tells us the details ( 1 Corinthians 13:4-13). If we do not have a fear of the Lord, how can we truly understand our need for salvation? For ex Proverbs 14:27, Proverbs 15:16, Proverbs 15:33, Proverbs 16:6, Matthew 10:28 etc

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Wow I found a few examples of age or age long in all 4 gospels-Matt 6:13-Matt 19:29 / Mark 3:29- Luke 10:25- Luke 18:30 ( this is a good one because it has it twice) I think you would have to read it as - who will not receive many times as much at this time and the eternity to come , eternal life . / John 11:26- John 8:51 all have either age or page to come when translated properly. I think when you are ready for the teaching it will come , but maybe this is a lesson you are not ready for yet.

I understand God is love ( 1 John 4:8) & St. Paul tells us the details ( 1 Corinthians 13:4-13). If we do not have a fear of the Lord, how can we truly understand our need for salvation? For ex Proverbs 14:27, Proverbs 15:16, Proverbs 15:33, Proverbs 16:6, Matthew 10:28 etc

How do you understand 1John 4:18 there is no fear in love because perfect love casts out all fear?

 

[Lukaris]

How do you understand 1John 4:18 there is no fear in love because perfect love casts out all fear?

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, Matthew 22:36-40, John 14:15-18, 1 Timothy 2:1-6, Matthew 6:1-13.

 

[JulieB67]

Unless you have a true understanding of Gods nature and character , when reading scripture it’s extremely hard to get to the correct conclusion.

I feel like you're taking the God of scripture out of the equation altogether. Or you're just cherry picking which verses better suit your belief system instead of taking the written Word as a whole.
Of course God has emotions. And we are made in his image. He loves, he get's angry, he gets jealous yes, (hebrew word- qanna root word -qana). And why wouldn't he? He created us for his pleasure but many worship other gods, don't believe in him, don't believe that he even exists. Or worse believe in him and than choose to walk away. He's long suffering. The OT is full of times where men have gone astray, God forgives and then they go astray again. We are not to have other gods before him and I'll also say that we are not to put anything else before him in our lives. He's number ONE.

He's loving, kind, slow to anger, ready to forgive and so on. Verses like this tell us so

Psalms 86:15 "But Thou, O Lord, art a GOD full of compassion, and gracious, Longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth."

Those are all feelings.

But even in that, he still does not give a free pass -

Numbers 14:18 " The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and forth generation."

And even though he's slow to get angry he does get there. What do you think the 40 years in the wilderness was about? And Moses himself prayed/pleaded to God to stop his kindling anger after they worshipped the golden image. It's called righteous anger, righteous indignation. It's not born out of nothing.

Exodus 32:7 "And the Lord said to Moses, "Go get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted
themselves:"

Exodus 32:8 "They have turned aside quickly out of thy way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, `These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.'

They saw the miracles of God firsthand and still turned on him.


Exodus 32:9 "And the Lord said unto Moses, "I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiffnecked people:"

Exodus 32:10 "Now therefore let Me alone, that My wrath may wax hot against them: and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation."

He was building up to consume them right there. That's how angry he was -rightly so. He got them out of Egypt, not some golden god.

Exodus 32:11 "And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, "Lord, why doth Thy wrath wax hot against Thy people, which Thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?"

Moses told them the Egyptians would say, oh he took them out of the land so he could slay them in the mountains and consume they from the earth-

Exodus 32:12 "Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, `For mischief did He bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth?' Turn from Thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against Thy people."

Evil in the Hebrew -ra can mean multiple things-

adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, displeasure, distress
From ra'a'; bad or (as noun) evil (natural or moral) -- adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease(-ure), distress, evil((- favouredness), man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief(-vous), harm, heavy, hurt(-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief(-vous), misery, naught(-ty), noisome, + not please, sad(-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked(-ly, -ness, one), worse(-st), wretchedness, wrong. (Incl. Feminine raaah; as adjective or noun.).

So we know that God is not evil in the sense in how we see that word. But we can get an idea of his anger.

At this point he's pleading with God and reminding him of his promises-

Exodus 32:13 "Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Thy servants, to whom Thou swarest by Thin own Self, and saidst unto them, `I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.' "

Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which He thought to do unto His people."

Do we want to know God's nature about the wicked -verses like this-

Psalms 7:11 "God judgeth the righteous, And God is angry with the wicked every day."

Angry in the Hebrew -zaam -engraged, more like indignation. So yes, he does have feelings.

Ezekiel 18:23 "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?"

There's a condition there, it's "return from his ways" that's repentance on the person's part. That's hasn't changed even into the NT

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

He's still there if anyone wants to seek him, seek forgiveness and love. That's what he wants. So when people throw that all in the trash. How is he supposed to feel? You claim certain emotions are human and that God can't feel those but we know he loves. Is that not a human emotion as well?

f you’re understanding of God is that he gets jealous, or gets mad , does things that he wishes he hadn’t , then you have made God in man’s image, these are things man does not God.

If you don't believe those things than you don't believe quite a bit of God's Word. Again, we ourselves are made in the image of God. We are created for his pleasure. Meaning he feels pleasure. And on the opposite, he gets upset when his people go astray. That's written.

,not the God of scripture

I'm pretty sure it was the God of scripture that wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah due to their wickedness.

I'm pretty sure it was the God of scripture that split up the 12 tribes over their constant idolatry. The 10 to the north with them later going into captivity to Assyria and of course Judah and Benjamin later going into captivity to Babylon.

he doesn’t get angry

Psalms 7:11 "God judgeth the righteous, And God is angry with the wicked every day."

Deuteronomy 9:8 "Also in Horeb ye provoked the Lord to wrath, so that the Lord was angry with you to have destroyed you."

Numbers 11:1 "And when the People complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it; and His anger was kindled; and the fire of the Lord burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp."

When we take the word anger back to the Hebrew it even gives us that full picture of God building up, breathing hard, etc


Aph -angry, before, countenance, face, forbearing, forehead, longsuffering, nose,

From 'anaph; properly, the nose or nostril; hence, the face, and occasionally a person; also (from the rapid breathing in passion) ire -- anger(-gry), + before, countenance, face, + forebearing, forehead, + (long-)suffering, nose, nostril, snout, X worthy, wrath.

From the root word -anaph - to breath hard, i.e. be enraged:- be angry displeased.

God feels these emotions. Why do think there's a Day of Wrath coming?

Are all of these scriptures untrue in your eyes?

But just as he's slow to anger, he's quick to forgive, that's all born out of the incredible love he has for us. Upon true repentance, anyone can get into that fold or back into the fold.

Paul tells us to take the things that happened back then as an example for those later on. We don't want to go the same way. But many will and will continue to do so until the end.

He can’t be jealous there is nothing for him to be jealous about , he is God ,

When people essentially cheat on him by worshipping other gods, than yes, I can see why he would be indignant, upset, yes. That's the first of the 10 commandments.

what does the God of all things who has no rivals

Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Revelation 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

That's a huge number of God's creation that Satan is able to pull away. But are we that surprised. Most of the entire world will wonder after him when he's here the first time pretending to be the Messiah. And are we surprised at the number when Christ tells us this-


Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at:"

Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

. That is why those who believe that God would torture most of his creation for all eternity

Again, not my belief.

And because you keep bringing up this verse

I Timothy 4:10 "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of all men specially of those that believe."

Of course he's the Savior of all men, the entire world, there is no other way that the world can obtain salvation. But I've read the end of the book. Many, as I've posted in other threads as well as this one will still not choose our Father over Satan and will follow him right into the Lake of Fire -the second death.
It's written, it's the truth.

Let's go down a few verses

I Timothy 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee

And another great one from 1st Timothy

I Timothy 6:12 "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

Are you really willing to throw out so much of the written Word to hold onto a belief system that's not biblical when we take the Bible as a whole?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I feel like you're taking the God of scripture out of the equation altogether. Or you're just cherry picking which verses better suit your belief system instead of taking the written Word as a whole.
Of course God has emotions. And we are made in his image. He loves, he get's angry, he gets jealous yes, (hebrew word- qanna root word -qana). And why wouldn't he? He created us for his pleasure but many worship other gods, don't believe in him, don't believe that he even exists. Or worse believe in him and than choose to walk away. He's long suffering. The OT is full of times where men have gone astray, God forgives and then they go astray again. We are not to have other gods before him and I'll also say that we are not to put anything else before him in our lives. He's number ONE.

He's loving, kind, slow to anger, ready to forgive and so on. Verses like this tell us so

Psalms 86:15 "But Thou, O Lord, art a GOD full of compassion, and gracious, Longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth."

Those are all feelings.

But even in that, he still does not give a free pass -

Numbers 14:18 " The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and forth generation."

And even though he's slow to get angry he does get there. What do you think the 40 years in the wilderness was about? And Moses himself prayed/pleaded to God to stop his kindling anger after they worshipped the golden image. It's called righteous anger, righteous indignation. It's not born out of nothing.

Exodus 32:7 "And the Lord said to Moses, "Go get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted
themselves:"

Exodus 32:8 "They have turned aside quickly out of thy way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, `These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.'

They saw the miracles of God firsthand and still turned on him.


Exodus 32:9 "And the Lord said unto Moses, "I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiffnecked people:"

Exodus 32:10 "Now therefore let Me alone, that My wrath may wax hot against them: and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation."

He was building up to consume them right there. That's how angry he was -rightly so. He got them out of Egypt, not some golden god.

Exodus 32:11 "And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, "Lord, why doth Thy wrath wax hot against Thy people, which Thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?"

Moses told them the Egyptians would say, oh he took them out of the land so he could slay them in the mountains and consume they from the earth-

Exodus 32:12 "Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, `For mischief did He bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth?' Turn from Thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against Thy people."

Evil in the Hebrew -ra can mean multiple things-

adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, displeasure, distress
From ra'a'; bad or (as noun) evil (natural or moral) -- adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease(-ure), distress, evil((- favouredness), man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief(-vous), harm, heavy, hurt(-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief(-vous), misery, naught(-ty), noisome, + not please, sad(-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked(-ly, -ness, one), worse(-st), wretchedness, wrong. (Incl. Feminine raaah; as adjective or noun.).

So we know that God is not evil in the sense in how we see that word. But we can get an idea of his anger.

At this point he's pleading with God and reminding him of his promises-

Exodus 32:13 "Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Thy servants, to whom Thou swarest by Thin own Self, and saidst unto them, `I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.' "

Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which He thought to do unto His people."

Do we want to know God's nature about the wicked -verses like this-

Psalms 7:11 "God judgeth the righteous, And God is angry with the wicked every day."

Angry in the Hebrew -zaam -engraged, more like indignation. So yes, he does have feelings.

Ezekiel 18:23 "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?"

There's a condition there, it's "return from his ways" that's repentance on the person's part. That's hasn't changed even into the NT

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

He's still there if anyone wants to seek him, seek forgiveness and love. That's what he wants. So when people throw that all in the trash. How is he supposed to feel? You claim certain emotions are human and that God can't feel those but we know he loves. Is that not a human emotion as well?


If you don't believe those things than you don't believe quite a bit of God's Word. Again, we ourselves are made in the image of God. We are created for his pleasure. Meaning he feels pleasure. And on the opposite, he gets upset when his people go astray. That's written.


I'm pretty sure it was the God of scripture that wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah due to their wickedness.

I'm pretty sure it was the God of scripture that split up the 12 tribes over their constant idolatry. The 10 to the north with them later going into captivity to Assyria and of course Judah and Benjamin later going into captivity to Babylon.



Psalms 7:11 "God judgeth the righteous, And God is angry with the wicked every day."

Deuteronomy 9:8 "Also in Horeb ye provoked the Lord to wrath, so that the Lord was angry with you to have destroyed you."

Numbers 11:1 "And when the People complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it; and His anger was kindled; and the fire of the Lord burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp."

When we take the word anger back to the Hebrew it even gives us that full picture of God building up, breathing hard, etc


Aph -angry, before, countenance, face, forbearing, forehead, longsuffering, nose,

From 'anaph; properly, the nose or nostril; hence, the face, and occasionally a person; also (from the rapid breathing in passion) ire -- anger(-gry), + before, countenance, face, + forebearing, forehead, + (long-)suffering, nose, nostril, snout, X worthy, wrath.

From the root word -anaph - to breath hard, i.e. be enraged:- be angry displeased.

God feels these emotions. Why do think there's a Day of Wrath coming?

Are all of these scriptures untrue in your eyes?

But just as he's slow to anger, he's quick to forgive, that's all born out of the incredible love he has for us. Upon true repentance, anyone can get into that fold or back into the fold.

Paul tells us to take the things that happened back then as an example for those later on. We don't want to go the same way. But many will and will continue to do so until the end.




When people essentially cheat on him by worshipping other gods, than yes, I can see why he would be indignant, upset, yes. That's the first of the 10 commandments.



Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Revelation 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

That's a huge number of God's creation that Satan is able to pull away. But are we that surprised. Most of the entire world will wonder after him when he's here the first time pretending to be the Messiah. And are we surprised at the number when Christ tells us this-


Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at:"

Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



Again, not my belief.

And because you keep bringing up this verse

I Timothy 4:10 "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of all men specially of those that believe."

Of course he's the Savior of all men, the entire world, there is no other way that the world can obtain salvation. But I've read the end of the book. Many, as I've posted in other threads as well as this one will still not choose our Father over Satan and will follow him right into the Lake of Fire -the second death.
It's written, it's the truth.

Let's go down a few verses

I Timothy 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee

And another great one from 1st Timothy

I Timothy 6:12 "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

Are you really willing to throw out so much of the written Word to hold onto a belief system that's not biblical when we take the Bible as a whole?

Your last sentence is exactly what I would write to you. I read scripture through a different lens than you, and yes everyone has a lens, Scripture says God is love not that he is a God who loves, there is a difference. Every action of God is love everything he does is love not out of love. If he is a God who has love as an attribute then he must have hate also , but if he is live then everything he does is love, so when he takes out Sodom and Gomorrah it’s his love , to us it looks like anger because we are human and see all things in human terms, but it’s all love . When he has what’s called “Gods wrath “ we see it as him getting angry, but it’s love . When he flooded the world and stopped the mortal people adding even more sin to themselves its love. When he puts people in the Lake of Fire to be purified its love. God can’t do anything that is not love , it’s his nature and character not an aspect of who he is. So like I said I read scripture through a different lens. I take the whole of scripture and the picture I get is of God working through different ways to bring about his telos and that is 1Cor 15:28 God will be all in all , and not by annihilating all that didn’t understand him. So when I read scripture a lot of it is talking about how man sees things and we must make the distinction between what man sees and what God is doing and will do because of who he is. I believe too many have made a God in their own image.

 

[JulieB67]

When he puts people in the Lake of Fire to be purified

Not biblical.

And yes, God loves us and it's out of that love for us that his emotions arise -good or bad. That is biblical -all throughout.

 

[Der Alte]

Still waiting for reply to 1Tim 4:9-11 . It’s ok to say you don’t want to discuss this verse, it’s a hard one to explain if you read the text as written.

Additional response. If 1 Tim 4:9-11, written by Paul, means that all mankind good and evil will be saved, no matter what, how could Paul have written multiple times about people perishing?

Romans 2:12​

(12) For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;​

1 Corinthians 1:18​

(18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.​

1 Corinthians 8:11​

(11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?​

2 Corinthians 2:15​

(15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:​

2 Thessalonians 2:10​

(10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.​

Hebrews 1:11​

(11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;​

 

[Der Alte]

*** When he puts people in the Lake of Fire to be purified its love. ***

Is there any scripture which states that anyone is rescued from the lake of fire?

Luke 16:25-26​

(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.​

(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.​

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9​

(8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:​

(9) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;​

Matthew 25:46​

(46) And these shall go away into everlasting [aionios] punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.[aionios]​

John 3:36​

(36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

Revelation 22:11​

(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

​

​

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Additional response. If 1 Tim 4:9-11, written by Paul, means that all mankind good and evil will be saved, no matter what, how could Paul have written multiple times about people perishing?

Romans 2:12​

(12) For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;​

1 Corinthians 1:18​

(18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.​

1 Corinthians 8:11​

(11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?​

2 Corinthians 2:15​

(15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:​

2 Thessalonians 2:10​

(10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.​

Hebrews 1:11​

(11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;​

Like I have said multiple times , I have no problem with those scriptures they are 100% correct when you understand that it’s talking about this age. The next age is different. Until you have an understanding of Gods agetthis will not make sense.