If you need God for Morality, why are Atheists so underrepresented in prison pop.?

[PeterMaclellan]

[SIZE=-1]With figures of 8-16 % of the populatipon being Atheists it would seem that they are under represented at 0.209 % of the prison population. Doesn't this prove that one need not believe in God in order to, you know, NOT do the things that society has deemed immoral enough to codify as law? I know most Atheists and rational people already know the argument is bunk, but doesn't this prove it?

[/SIZE]

 

[Eudaimonist]

Honestly, I've never found these statistics convincing because prisoners just might have an incentive to lie about the status of their beliefs.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[stan1980]

Certainly interesting statistics. I've long suspected that the religious on the whole seem to be less pleasant people than atheists, but i think you're going to be asked for citation, and i wouldn't mind seeing where you got those stats from.

 

[PeterMaclellan]

http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html
at the bottom. Ill admit it's not the most reliable stat, but that doesn't change the fact that if the only thing forcing us to act moral was theistic belief, 8-16% of the population of America would be out raping and murdering and I think it's fairly obvious that they aren't.

 

[stan1980]

One problem i can see, is that some Christians might consider themselves Christians, just because they come from a Christian family. In reality they may barely ever picked up a bible or been to church in their lives, nor do they know much about Christianity.

 

[Fremdin]

I would say some of the explanation to be explained by the saying; "There are no atheist in foxholes" The stress of incarceration could cause conversion and there maybe perks to being affliated with religion, such as getting to go to "church" or being able to hepl with services. Things to make the time go by faster. I have another theory but I don't want to bring that kind of heat down on my head.

 

[stan1980]

I have another theory but I don't want to bring that kind of heat down on my head.

Please, lets hear it. I like things that cut close to the bone

 

[Baggins]

The whole idea that morality comes from god or the bible was debunked by Hauser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Hauser

with tests like these:

http://moral.wjh.harvard.edu/

In his book: Moral Minds, on pages 254-258 of the God Delusion, Dawkins.

Interview here:

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/InterviewTypeDetail/assetid/52880

The morals of Amazonian Indians with little contact with the outside world show little difference to modern Americans, they both have a inate sense of morality, and so do all other races and creeds.

I don't see how anybody could mistake the Bible for a lesson on human morality, much of it makes De Sade look tame.

Morality has perfectly understandable evolutionary benefits, other animals show moral behaviours as well.

So lets not kid ourselves that Christians are any more moral than anyone else.

I'd argue that Humanists are more moral than Christian because their morality comes out of respect for their fellow humans, rather than from the hope of reward or fear of punishment which lies at the base of fundamentalist religion.

 

[quatona]

[SIZE=-1]With figures of 8-16 % of the populatipon being Atheists it would seem that they are under represented at 0.209 % of the prison population. Doesn't this prove that one need not believe in God in order to, you know, NOT do the things that society has deemed immoral enough to codify as law? I know most Atheists and rational people already know the argument is bunk, but doesn't this prove it?
[/SIZE]

Just an observation: Your question implies that our laws are representing the Christian idea of morality. This may not necessarily be a correct assumption.

 

[quatona]

I would say some of the explanation to be explained by the saying; "There are no atheist in foxholes"

And since this saying is demonstrably false...
Besides: If it were true I have always found it to be an argument against foxholes rather than against atheism.

 

[RangerJoe]

And since this saying is demonstrably false...
Besides: If it were true I have always found it to be an argument against foxholes rather than against atheism.

I was an atheist in a foxhole...Well, there aren't many fox holes in the current conflict, but I think you get the idea

 

[Washington]

Honestly, I've never found these statistics convincing because prisoners just might have an incentive to lie about the status of their beliefs.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Yeah, like if they lie about their beliefs they get more rec. time. If they lie about their beliefs they get an extra serving of pie. If they lie about their beliefs they get less laundry duty.

 

[Ringo84]

Very good question!

My belief is that this is due to the fact that you don't necessarily need God for morality.

Belief in God does not guarantee that someone is moral. How many devout Christians have we seen caught in affairs, in criminal conspiracies, and the like? Since Christians are human beings, and since human beings cannot be perfect, they will never be perfectly moral and "good".

But non-belief in God does not guarantee that someone is not moral either. A person can be a good, righteous and ethical human being and still not believe in God. Morality does not necessarily begin and end with Christianity.
Ringo

 

[Q2004]

[SIZE=-1]With figures of 8-16 % of the populatipon being Atheists it would seem that they are under represented at 0.209 % of the prison population. Doesn't this prove that one need not believe in God in order to, you know, NOT do the things that society has deemed immoral enough to codify as law? I know most Atheists and rational people already know the argument is bunk, but doesn't this prove it?

[/SIZE]

Perhaps atheists who commit crimes may be more likely to 'turn to God' once in prison, out of stress, out of boredom - who knows why? Perhaps those who are less likely to commit crime (the educated/well off) are also more likely to be irreligious.

Personally, I'd expect myself to become religious if incarcerated. I certainly wouldn't turn to mainstream Christianity or Islam, but still.

 

[fated]

[SIZE=-1]With figures of 8-16 % of the populatipon being Atheists it would seem that they are under represented at 0.209 % of the prison population. Doesn't this prove that one need not believe in God in order to, you know, NOT do the things that society has deemed immoral enough to codify as law? I know most Atheists and rational people already know the argument is bunk, but doesn't this prove it?

[/SIZE]

Answer:
Atheism is now and has always been a world view overpopulated by the wealthy and educated, who often see themselves as somehow "above" the need for religion.

 

[Baggins]

Answer:
Atheism is now and has always been a world view overpopulated by the wealthy and educated, who often see themselves as somehow "above" the need for religion.

Why " Somehow "above" the need for religion" ?

 

[quatona]

Answer:
Atheism is now and has always been a world view overpopulated by the wealthy and educated,

1. Can you back up that claim?
2. Your argument not only implies a correlation between education and wealth and between education/wealth and atheism, but also a (negative) correlation between education/wealth and criminality. Could you back up this assertion, too?
3. If your claim that atheism has a correlation with being educated - does that tend to speak against atheism or rather for it.

who often see themselves as somehow "above" the need for religion.

Which, if true, would be irrelevant for the question, but merely a nice try of not letting slip the opportunity to engage in character assassination, strawman and poisoning the well.

 

[MikeMcK]

[SIZE=-1]With figures of 8-16 % of the populatipon being Atheists it would seem that they are under represented at 0.209 % of the prison population. Doesn't this prove that one need not believe in God in order to, you know, NOT do the things that society has deemed immoral enough to codify as law? I know most Atheists and rational people already know the argument is bunk, but doesn't this prove it?[/SIZE]

And how many of those people in prison are born again?

 

[LittleNipper]

[SIZE=-1]With figures of 8-16 % of the populatipon being Atheists it would seem that they are under represented at 0.209 % of the prison population. Doesn't this prove that one need not believe in God in order to, you know, NOT do the things that society has deemed immoral enough to codify as law? I know most Atheists and rational people already know the argument is bunk, but doesn't this prove it?

[/SIZE]

Once a person ends up in prision, he realizes that there is a GOD after all and becomes religious.

 

[fated]

1. Can you back up that claim?
2. Your argument not only implies a correlation between education and wealth and between education/wealth and atheism, but also a (negative) correlation between education/wealth and criminality. Could you back up this assertion, too?
3. If your claim that atheism has a correlation with being educated - does that tend to speak against atheism or rather for it.


Which, if true, would be irrelevant for the question, but merely a nice try of not letting slip the opportunity to engage in character assassination, strawman and poisoning the well.

Maybe someone has statistics to back up their claim?

I'd say more likely this answer is fairly self evident. To see where any disparage might or might not be, one need only see other arguments regarding the so-called professor discrepancy so often used to justify atheistic beliefs. It is doubtful that the exact study you are looking for even exists, because it would be a study of a mere curiosity. Thereby, the claims of the OP cannot be subject to reasonable discussion, if those gathered for discussion cannot derive reasonable conclusions from other available sources, and the question itself becomes a farce based upon how strongly those gathered deny that a particular point is simply attributed to positive assertion.