If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[bugkiller]

Since you are apart of the covenant where the Spirit dwells inside of you, why do you teach against obeying God's commandments? Part of the new covenant that you are in is having God's law/commands written on your heart and walking in/living them!

You are mixing covenants.

Paul was talking about inheriting the promise through faith and not through works. Notice in 5:4, he says "those of you who are justified by the law".

This means those who establish their own righteousness through their own works and not through faith. He's talking about salvation and and how the promise is inherited, not whether to obey God's commands.

So you believe you can save yourself by your works. So sorry for you. Please read the Gospel of John out loud several times.

Salvation and the promise is not through the law(Torah), but this doesn't mean you aren't supposed to obey the law and live according to God's commands

Really? wouldn't that be obligation to the law for salvation and a double minded statement?

If, before we were believers, lived a life against God's law(Torah), why wouldnt we then repent of our ways and learn to walk and live according to God's commands? Remember, we were called out of our precious lives of living AGAINST God. Why wouldn't we then live a life FOR God?

It is obvious you don't understand the NC.

Remember, Paul lived according to the law, which included the feast days, the food laws, the Sabbath, 10 commandments etc

Paul lived as a gentile as did Peter in Antioch.

Ishmael was conceived because of Sarah and Abraham tried to bring about the promise through their own works, instead of having faith in the Father and waiting on the promise.

So, yer point is....

the issue is faith-based salvation vs works-based

Yeppers!

Obeying God's commands is not a yoke of bondage. Working your way to salvation and righteousness is bondage. We are saved by FAITH, but once we are saved and called out, we are then supposed to live a righteous life according to how YAH The Most High says to live!

Depends on what commands you are talking about. YAH does not require the keeping of the law in the NC because it is a covenant based on promises instead of law.

Paul lived according to the Torah(law). If living according to God's command is a yoke of Bondage, then Paul lived according to bondage, since he took a vow in Acts to prove he lived according to the Torah! I don't believe he lived in bondage, but this is what you are basically teaching based off your posts.

You do not understand the dynamics behind or of the event.

considering Paul lived according to God's commands, its contradictory and absurd to think that he was teaching believers in the Messiah to NOT obey God. What kind of sense does it make to live according to God's commands, but tell your brothers and sisters in Christ to NOT obey God's commands, and that it's bondage to do so?

No because Paul lived as a gentile in Antioch.

bugkiller

 

[Dkh587]

There is no such passage in Jeremiah unless you are using part of a sentence. Yes I see you quote that part oft he sentence from v 33 below. This is taking a verse out of context to support something it doesn't say.

granted, but that isn't what is being argued.Yeppers I am. Read the Gospels and Acts Furthermore there is no requirement to join the covenant issued to Israel at Mt Sinai.I guess you can keep trying to prove gentiles can not be included in the NC or that there is no such thing.

bugkiller

That is indeed being argued because the verse from Hebrews was posted in response to obeying the law/commands/Torah. If someone says, "we should obey God's commands", another will quote Hebrews and take the priesthood verse out of context and say "see, the priesthood changed so the law changed so we don't have to obey God's commands!"

"Gentiles" can be a part of the covenant, but it was not made with us. And I believe that there is such a thing as the new covenant, that Jeremiah and Ezekiel prophecied. The covenant where God would put His Spirit in His children & write his Law on their hearts and cause them to walk in them.

Nobody here says you are supposed to join the covenant made at Mount Sinai. God taught His people(Israel) how to live righteously AFTER He saved them. The things you are supposed to do, and the things you should not. The covenant was that if they walked according to His commands, they would live, but if not, they would die.

Just because Most of Israel chose to worship other gods doesn't mean God's commandments and ways of living change. Israel didn't live up to their part. But guess what? YAH promised Israel that He would make a new covenant with Israel, one where He forgave their sins, and give his Holy Spirit, and lead/cause His children into following and obeying Him.

If God made the covenant with Israel, and we're Gentiles, with whom the covenant was not made, then it only mean 1 thing: we are no longer Gentiles, but are now Israel. A descendant of Abraham


If you and me are a part of the same covenant as the new one, why would God write His laws on Israel's hearts and lead/cause them to obey them, but at the same time, give the Holy Spirit to "Gentiles" and NOT lead/cause them(you and me) to walk in His commandments and laws and statutes? Aren't we His people to? According to Paul, you and me are grafted into the olive tree.

Didn't God forgive us with the new covenant? Christ died for our sins too. If the covenant is made with Israel, and we are part of the covenant, wouldn't we be grouped in with Israel? Think about it

Even during the time of Moses, non-Israelites lived and were commanded by God to be treated as an Israelite. They were also supposed to obey the law. How much more would a "gentile" at that time obey His commands if he truly believed and loved God?

I believe the Holy Spirit has been poured out on both Israelites and "Gentiles" and continues to until this very day, but I don't believe the full terms of the covenant have not come to pass

We are all one in Messiah, no matter who we are. what matters is keeping God's commandments!

 

[BABerean2]

Since you are apart of the covenant where the Spirit dwells inside of you, why do you teach against obeying God's commandments? Part of the new covenant that you are in is having God's law/commands written on your heart and walking in/living them!


Paul was talking about inheriting the promise through faith and not through works. Notice in 5:4, he says "those of you who are justified by the law".

This means those who establish their own righteousness through their own works and not through faith. He's talking about salvation and and how the promise is inherited, not whether to obey God's commands.

Salvation and the promise is not through the law(Torah), but this doesn't mean you aren't supposed to obey the law and live according to God's commands

If, before we were believers, lived a life against God's law(Torah), why wouldnt we then repent of our ways and learn to walk and live according to God's commands? Remember, we were called out of our precious lives of living AGAINST God. Why wouldn't we then live a life FOR God?

Remember, Paul lived according to the law, which included the feast days, the food laws, the Sabbath, 10 commandments etc

Ishmael was conceived because of Sarah and Abraham tried to bring about the promise through their own works, instead of having faith in the Father and waiting on the promise.



the issue is faith-based salvation vs works-based


Obeying God's commands is not a yoke of bondage. Working your way to salvation and righteousness is bondage. We are saved by FAITH, but once we are saved and called out, we are then supposed to live a righteous life according to how YAH The Most High says to live!

Paul lived according to the Torah(law). If living according to God's command is a yoke of Bondage, then Paul lived according to bondage, since he took a vow in Acts to prove he lived according to the Torah! I don't believe he lived in bondage, but this is what you are basically teaching based off your posts.



considering Paul lived according to God's commands, its contradictory and absurd to think that he was teaching believers in the Messiah to NOT obey God. What kind of sense does it make to live according to God's commands, but tell your brothers and sisters in Christ to NOT obey God's commands, and that it's bondage to do so?

I have never said anything about breaking the commandments that we are given.

Circumcision is no longer required and based on Colossians 2:16-17, Christ is now the Sabbath.

Idol worship, murder, adultery are most certainly wrong.

We are under the Law of Christ.

1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.


Below Paul speaks of his view of the law.


Php 3:4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:
Php 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
Php 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Paul did not put his confidence in law keeping and considered it as dung.

Anything (like Torah) that takes the focus off of Christ is an idol.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Start quoting anything you think I'm ignoring.

bugkiller

been there , done that!

 

[BobRyan]

IOW you claim there is no NC

An interesting fiction that you get by "quoting you"??

 

[BobRyan]

How many times must one address a set of passages

you do that???

 

[BobRyan]

What you say above simply isn't true.

bugkiller

Until you read the actual Bible.

Gal 3:8 "The Gospel was preached to ABRAHAM"
Genesis 26:5 "Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" in the still-valid unit-of-TEN
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



===============================================

In your mind -- is God at war with His own Word??

Luke 24:27 before you answer.
Mark 7:6-13 - before you answer.
2 Timothy 3:16 - before you answer.
Acts 17:11 - before you answer.
Gal 1:6-9 - before you answer
Gal 3:8 - before you answer


What does God's Word say??

Prov 28:4, 9
4 Those who forsake the law praise the wicked,
But those who keep the law strive with them.

9 He who turns away his ear from listening to the law,
Even his prayer is an abomination.

I have done so. you are wrong, do not agree with the nor believe the complete Bible.
bugkiller

A wild fiction on your part - construed first by ignoring every text in the post you respond to.

As we all know by now.

 

[Jan001]

You have just become a Judaiser by linking salvation to commandment keeping.

..........

We are under the law of Christ.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.

It is true that no person is justified by keeping the Law of Moses, but it is also true that after Christ initially saves us, we do continue to be justified/saved by keeping the law of Christ.

Salvation is indeed linked to commandment keeping!!!

LOVE ONE ANOTHER is the commandment of Jesus Christ. Love does no harm to a neighbor. If you harm your neighbor -- if you sin against your neighbor, you have not kept Jesus' commandment and if you do not repent of your sin before you die, you will not be approved to inherit eternal life.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (of Christ). rsv​

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. rsv​

 

[Jan001]

Notice John doesn't have one word about the 10 commandments that so many Christians hold in high esteem. He tells us we are doing right if we love Jesus an love others as he commands. Why do we want to always take the long hard road when God offers us the simple plan of salvation through loving others as He loves us?.

I am sure God would have revealed through John all the things some believe we must do to earn salvation if it were true.

The Ten Commandments (Catholic Version) are examples for Christians of how to love God and neighbor according to the law of Christ. The Ten Commandments (Catholic Version) are examples of what we should not do in order to fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[Jan001]

I reject your idea of salvation by works of any kind. I suggest you read Romans 8 and I Jn 1. No Id o not promote sin or the right to sin. When I was in Mexico your church was still selling indulgences (the right to sin with permission and blessing having preforgiveness). There is some truth mixed in with your post.

bugkiller

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. rsv
​

You know nothing regarding indulgences in the Catholic Church. It is illegal and invalid to sell indulgences. This is the teaching of my Church. There is absolutely no right to sin with permission and blessing having preforgiveness. There can be absolutely no permission and blessing given to any person to commit sin. There is no such thing as preforgiveness for sins which a person desires to commit!


Romans is teaching.that there is no salvation by the works of the law of Moses!

1 John 1 is teaching about the necessity of confessing our sins in order to continue in fellowship with God. 1 John 1 is teaching about the necessity of choosing to obey God's commandments/walk in the light of Christ instead of choosing to walk in darkness/sin.

 

[Jan001]

God said He would write His Torah(law) on the hearts of His people

The verse you're referencing is talking about the priesthood changing. It's not talking about taking God's commandments away and having nothing to do with them

“But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YAH, I will put my Torah(law) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Are you a part of this covenant, the one where God writes His law on the hearts of His people?


“Therefore say, Thus saith YAH Elohim; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their Elohim.
But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith YAH Elohim.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭11:17-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭36:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

According to your understanding, what happens to Christians who do not obey God's commandments and do not repent of their sins before they die?

 

[BobRyan]

Do you not read the Scriptures you post? It is true that no person is justified by keeping the Law of Moses, but it is also true that after Christ initially saves us, we do continue to be justified/saved by keeping the law of Christ.

Salvation is indeed linked to commandment keeping!!!

LOVE ONE ANOTHER is the commandment of Jesus Christ. Love does no harm to a neighbor. If you harm your neighbor -- if you sin against your neighbor, you have not kept Jesus' commandment and if you do not repent of your sin before you die, you will not be approved to inherit eternal life.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (of Christ). rsv​

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. rsv​

So then "by their fruits you shall know them" Matt 7 -- the "Fruit" of rebellion against the Word of God - is the fruit of the lost person - according to Romans 8:4-9.

But that does not mean that the lost person can become saved by choosing to honor his parents. They must repent, be born again -- accept the Gospel -- accept the NEW Covenant where the "LAW" of God is "written on the heart and mind".

 

[BobRyan]

According to your understanding, what happens to Christians who do not obey God's commandments and do not repent of their sins before they die?

Proverbs 28:9 comes to mind

Romans 2:13 comes to mind

James 2:8-12 comes to mind.

Revelation 14:12 comes to mind

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandments (Catholic Version) are examples for Christians of how to love God and neighbor according to the law of Christ. .

What would be "the Catholic version"???? the one found in Ex 20 in the Douay–Rheims Bible ?

Or are you thinking of "another Bible"?

 

[Jan001]

What would be "the Catholic version"???? the one found in Ex 20 in the Douay–Rheims Bible ?

Or are you thinking of "another Bible"?

You already know. I have posted the link and the commandments before.

Here are the Catholic Ten Commandments:

1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

You keep trying to make Christians obey the law of Moses. The law of Moses is not valid/binding for Christians. The law of Moses lasted from Moses until John the Baptist.

Luke 16:16
“The law (of Moses) and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently. rsv​

Galatians 3:23-26
So that the law (of Moses) was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian (law of Moses); 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. rsv

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law (of Moses), so now there is righteousness for everyone who believes. mounce
​

Christians are not under the law of Moses.

I won't be addressing any of your other Scriptures which you keep posting. It is obvious that you either do not acknowledge or else you do not comprehend the preceding Scriptures. The other Scriptures you keep quoting that seem to support your position actually do not. The preceding Scriptures I posted are very clear in that the NC Christians are not bound under the commandments of the OC Israelites. Christians have their own commandments and they are based upon the love of God and the love of neighbor.

​

 

[Jan001]

So then "by their fruits you shall know them" Matt 7 -- the "Fruit" of rebellion against the Word of God - is the fruit of the lost person - according to Romans 8:4-9.

But that does not mean that the lost person can become saved by choosing to honor his parents. They must repent, be born again -- accept the Gospel -- accept the NEW Covenant where the "LAW" of God is "written on the heart and mind".

The law of Moses is not the same law as the law of Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death (law of Moses). rsv ​

 

[Jan001]

Proverbs 28:9 comes to mind

Romans 2:13 comes to mind

James 2:8-12 comes to mind.

Revelation 14:12 comes to mind

The law of Moses is not the same law as the law of Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death (law of Moses). rsv

 

[Dkh587]

According to your understanding, what happens to Christians who do not obey God's commandments and do not repent of their sins before they die?

i believe "Christians" who live a life of unrepentant sin, against God's commandments, will perish and will not inherit eternal life

 

[Jan001]

.........

If God made the covenant with Israel, and we're Gentiles, with whom the covenant was not made, then it only mean 1 thing: we are no longer Gentiles, but are now Israel. A descendant of Abraham


If you and me are a part of the same covenant as the new one, why would God write His laws on Israel's hearts and lead/cause them to obey them, but at the same time, give the Holy Spirit to "Gentiles" and NOT lead/cause them(you and me) to walk in His commandments and laws and statutes? Aren't we His people to? According to Paul, you and me are grafted into the olive tree.

Didn't God forgive us with the new covenant? Christ died for our sins too. If the covenant is made with Israel, and we are part of the covenant, wouldn't we be grouped in with Israel? Think about it

Even during the time of Moses, non-Israelites lived and were commanded by God to be treated as an Israelite. They were also supposed to obey the law. How much more would a "gentile" at that time obey His commands if he truly believed and loved God?

I believe the Holy Spirit has been poured out on both Israelites and "Gentiles" and continues to until this very day, but I don't believe the full terms of the covenant have not come to pass

We are all one in Messiah, no matter who we are. what matters is keeping God's commandments!

Christians are not descendants of Israel, but Christians of faith are the descendants of Abraham.

Galatians 3:6-8
Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” rsv
​

The Christians of faith are the true sons of Abraham. There is no distinction between Jew and Greek/Gentile in the Christian faith.

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Ephesians 2:13-22
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances (law of Moses), that he might create in himself one new man (Christian) in place of the two (Jew and Greek), so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both (Jew and Greek) to God in one body (Christianity) through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; 18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; 22 in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. rsv

​

Christians are not made into Israelites under the New Covenant. The Israelite nation used to be the people of God, but now it is the believers in Jesus Christ (Christians) who are the household/people of God.

​

​

 

[Jan001]

i believe "Christians" who live a life of unrepentant sin, against God's commandments, will perish and will not inherit eternal life

Me, too.