If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Dkh587]

Christians are not descendants of Israel, but Christians of faith are the descendants of Abraham.

Galatians 3:6-8
Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” rsv
​

The Christians of faith are the true sons of Abraham. There is no distinction between Jew and Greek/Gentile in the Christian faith.

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Ephesians 2:13-22
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances (law of Moses), that he might create in himself one new man (Christian) in place of the two (Jew and Greek), so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both (Jew and Greek) to God in one body (Christianity) through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; 18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; 22 in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. rsv

​

Christians are not made into Israelites under the New Covenant. The Israelite nation used to be the people of God, but now it is the believers in Jesus Christ (Christians) who are the household/people of God.

​

​

I agree that we are all one people. The Most High looks on us as one people in the Messiah. For us Gentiles, we are no longer Gentiles but we are citizens of The Kingdom of Elohim. We DO become a descendant of Abraham. That makes you an (genetic)Israelite. That's what being a physical Israelite is all about: being a genetic descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel

We are "spiritual Israelites", grafted in through the natural olive tree through the Messiah Yahushua. Paul said we are the true Yahudim(Jews). We are sons of Abraham and heirs according to the promise


Romans 2:29 NLT
"No, a true Yahudim(Jew)is one whose heart is right with Elohim. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by Elohim's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from Elohim, not from people."



If the covenant is made with Israel, and we are partakers of the covenant, then it only makes sense that we become part of Israel through the Messiah. The Most High said He would be giving His Holy Spirit to Israel, to cause them to walk in His ways, commands and statutes etc. He promised to lead them by the Spirit and forgive them of their sins

Didn't this happen to us also? We were forgiven and given the Holy Spirit to lead us in our lives to lead us into obeying Elohim's commands and His ways, just like He promised Israel

If we are endowed with the Holy Spirit, and we are forgiven of our sins, then the only way this can be is that we are a part of the true nation of Elohim: Israel.

 

[BobRyan]

The law of Moses is not the same law as the law of Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death (law of Moses). rsv

What did Jesus Christ say about that idea?

In Hebrews 8:6-10 we are told that Jesus Christ is the one that gave the commandments at Sinai.

In John 6 we are told that it was not Moses that gave manna from heaven or thundered from Sinai.

In Mark 7:6-13 Jesus Christ said that "Moses said" = "Word of God" = "Commandments of God"

Bible details matter.

Page ONE of this thread --


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said" -

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The law of Moses is not the same law as the law of Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death (law of Moses). rsv ​

You inserted "Law of Moses" -- shall we all "Quote you" for our Bible?

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandments (Catholic Version) are examples for Christians of how to love God and neighbor according to the law of Christ. .

What would be "the Catholic version"???? the one found in Ex 20 in the Douay–Rheims Bible ?

Or are you thinking of "another Bible"?

You already know. I have posted the link and the commandments before.

Here are the Catholic Ten Commandments:

1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

You are not even quoting the Catholic Bible at all.

What are you quoting??

the traditions of men???

Not even your own Bible will do???


=== quoting catholic teaching -- on the TEN Commandments (For those Catholics that refuse to quote their own Catholic Bible - much less any Bible at all on certain points)

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/QUOTE]


Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

 

[BobRyan]

So then -- Traditions of men -- vs the Words of Christ

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Jan001]

I agree that we are all one people. The Most High looks on us as one people in the Messiah. For us Gentiles, we are no longer Gentiles but we are citizens of The Kingdom of Elohim. We DO become a descendant of Abraham. That makes you an (genetic)Israelite. That's what being a physical Israelite is all about: being a genetic descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel

We are "spiritual Israelites", grafted in through the natural olive tree through the Messiah Yahushua. Paul said we are the true Yahudim(Jews). We are sons of Abraham and heirs according to the promise

Romans 2:29 NLT
"No, a true Yahudim(Jew)is one whose heart is right with Elohim. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by Elohim's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from Elohim, not from people."

The olive tree is Jesus Christ. The olive tree is not Israel. This olive tree/Jesus Christ has natural (Israel) branches and wild (Gentile) branches. I don't believe we become a spiritual Israel. We are simply sons and daughters of Abraham by faith and we have no distinctions between us due to nationality.

Ishmael was a biological son of Abraham and his descendants are the biological sons and daughters of Abraham.

Abraham's biological line through Isaac became known as Israel because Jacob/Israel was his biological grandson. Abraham was never called an Israelite because he preceded the Israelite nation. Abraham was actually from UR of the Chaldeans when God called him and it was his faith when he was a Chaldean which pleased God. Genesis 11:30-32, Genesis 12:1-4

If the covenant is made with Israel, and we are partakers of the covenant, then it only makes sense that we become part of Israel through the Messiah. The Most High said He would be giving His Holy Spirit to Israel, to cause them to walk in His ways, commands and statutes etc. He promised to lead them by the Spirit and forgive them of their sins

Didn't this happen to us also? We were forgiven and given the Holy Spirit to lead us in our lives to lead us into obeying Elohim's commands and His ways, just like He promised Israel

If we are endowed with the Holy Spirit, and we are forgiven of our sins, then the only way this can be is that we are a part of the true nation of Elohim: Israel.

Christians are not Israelites, and Christians do not follow the law of Moses which was made for the disobedient Israelites only. It is true that Jesus Christ made a new covenant with Israel, but that is because this new covenant was necessary in order to get rid of their first/old covenant with God. However, this new covenant was not made just for the Israelites. It was made for all the sons and daughters of Abraham by faith who believe in Jesus Christ. Gentile/Greek Christians do not ever become Israelites, but they are sons and daughters of Abraham by faith.

John 10:16
And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. rsv
​

Jews and Gentiles/Greeks were separated by their religion practices and they kept themselves separate from each other because of this. The Israelites looked down upon the Gentiles/Greeks and the Samaritans. Jesus made a new covenant for all people and it makes no distinctions between nationalities.

Ephesians 2:13-16
But now in Christ Jesus you (Greeks/Gentiles) who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both (Jew and Greek) one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances (law of Moses), that he might create in himself one new man (Christianity/Church) in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body (Church) through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility (between Jew and Greek/Gentile) to an end. rsv

Romans 4:16
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants—not only to the adherents of the law (of Moses) but also to those (Greeks/Gentiles) who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, rsv

Galatians 3:6-8
Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” ​

 

[Jan001]

What did Jesus Christ say about that idea?

In Hebrews 8:6-10 we are told that Jesus Christ is the one that gave the commandments at Sinai.

In John 6 we are told that it was not Moses that gave manna from heaven or thundered from Sinai.

In Mark 7:6-13 Jesus Christ said that "Moses said" = "Word of God" = "Commandments of God"

Bible details matter.

Page ONE of this thread --


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said" -

in Christ,

Bob

Galatians 3:24-25
So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; rsv


We Christians are no longer under the law of Moses. We Christians are under the law of Christ.



The Law of Christ:

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. rsv

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

 

[Jan001]

You inserted "Law of Moses" -- shall we all "Quote you" for our Bible?

Everyone in Paul's flock knew that the law of Moses was known as the law of sin and death. When and/or where there is no law of Moses in force, there can be no sin counted against the people for not keeping the law of Moses. Israelites who did not keep the law of Moses were put under the curse of sin and death.

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.” rsv​

The Gentiles were never under the sabbath law of the Israelites and so they did not disobey God by their not keeping the sabbath of the Israelites. God never commanded the sabbath law for the Gentiles and so they committed no sin by not keeping it.

Romans 5:13
sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. rsv

Romans 5:20
Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, rsv

Romans 7:5
While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. rsv

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. rsv

​

The law of Moses was given to the Israelites as a punishment for their disobedience in the desert. It was given to them to train them to become obedient.

Acts 15:8-11
And God who knows the heart bore witness to them (Gentiles), giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us (Israelites); 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke (law of Moses) upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we (Israelites) believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they (Gentiles) will.” rsv​

 

[Jan001]

What would be "the Catholic version"???? the one found in Ex 20 in the Douay–Rheims Bible ?

Or are you thinking of "another Bible"?



You are not even quoting the Catholic Bible at all.

What are you quoting??

the traditions of men???

Not even your own Bible will do???


=== quoting catholic teaching -- on the TEN Commandments (For those Catholics that refuse to quote their own Catholic Bible - much less any Bible at all on certain points)

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.


Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

Catholics are not under the law of Moses. Catholics have their own Ten Commandments which they are required to keep. Catholics must keep the Lord's day and they do not keep the Sabbath.

Doesn't matter how many Catholic documents you dig up that you think do support your position, you are definitely misunderstanding them because the true interpretation of them according to Catholic teaching does not agree with your own thinking about them.

Catholics are not required to keep the Mosaic Ten Commandments because they are not under the old covenant law of Moses. They are under the new covenant law of Jesus Christ and they keep the Lord's day on the first day of the week because He taught them to do this.

Catholics do not believe in Scripture only. Christ founded a Church and appoints its leaders and successor leaders. Christ commanded them to personally preach/teach His gospel.


Paul commands the successor bishop Timothy:

2 Timothy 2:2
and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. rsv​

Christ did not command the leaders of His Church to write a book to teach His gospel. Christ did not command any person to buy a book about His gospel and decide for himself what His gospel is.

 

[bugkiller]

I agree that we are all one people. The Most High looks on us as one people in the Messiah. For us Gentiles, we are no longer Gentiles but we are citizens of The Kingdom of Elohim. We DO become a descendant of Abraham. That makes you an (genetic)Israelite. That's what being a physical Israelite is all about: being a genetic descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel

We are "spiritual Israelites", grafted in through the natural olive tree through the Messiah Yahushua. Paul said we are the true Yahudim(Jews). We are sons of Abraham and heirs according to the promise


Romans 2:29 NLT
"No, a true Yahudim(Jew)is one whose heart is right with Elohim. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by Elohim's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from Elohim, not from people."



If the covenant is made with Israel, and we are partakers of the covenant, then it only makes sense that we become part of Israel through the Messiah. The Most High said He would be giving His Holy Spirit to Israel, to cause them to walk in His ways, commands and statutes etc. He promised to lead them by the Spirit and forgive them of their sins

Didn't this happen to us also? We were forgiven and given the Holy Spirit to lead us in our lives to lead us into obeying Elohim's commands and His ways, just like He promised Israel

If we are endowed with the Holy Spirit, and we are forgiven of our sins, then the only way this can be is that we are a part of the true nation of Elohim: Israel.

hogwash

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The olive tree is Jesus Christ. The olive tree is not Israel. This olive tree/Jesus Christ has natural (Israel) branches and wild (Gentile) branches. I don't believe we become a spiritual Israel. We are simply sons and daughters of Abraham by faith and we have no distinctions between us due to nationality.

Ishmael was a biological son of Abraham and his descendants are the biological sons and daughters of Abraham.

Abraham's biological line through Isaac became known as Israel because Jacob/Israel was his biological grandson. Abraham was never called an Israelite because he preceded the Israelite nation. Abraham was actually from UR of the Chaldeans when God called him and it was his faith when he was a Chaldean which pleased God. Genesis 11:30-32, Genesis 12:1-4




Christians are not Israelites, and Christians do not follow the law of Moses which was made for the disobedient Israelites only. It is true that Jesus Christ made a new covenant with Israel, but that is because this new covenant was necessary in order to get rid of their first/old covenant with God. However, this new covenant was not made just for the Israelites. It was made for all the sons and daughters of Abraham by faith who believe in Jesus Christ. Gentile/Greek Christians do not ever become Israelites, but they are sons and daughters of Abraham by faith.

John 10:16
And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. rsv
​

Jews and Gentiles/Greeks were separated by their religion practices and they kept themselves separate from each other because of this. The Israelites looked down upon the Gentiles/Greeks and the Samaritans. Jesus made a new covenant for all people and it makes no distinctions between nationalities.

Ephesians 2:13-16
But now in Christ Jesus you (Greeks/Gentiles) who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both (Jew and Greek) one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances (law of Moses), that he might create in himself one new man (Christianity/Church) in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body (Church) through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility (between Jew and Greek/Gentile) to an end. rsv

Romans 4:16
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants—not only to the adherents of the law (of Moses) but also to those (Greeks/Gentiles) who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, rsv

Galatians 3:6-8
Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” ​

We are fellow citizens with the saints instead of Israel. Eph 2

bugkiller

 

[Jan001]

We are fellow citizens with the saints instead of Israel. Eph 2

bugkiller

Yes ... and members of the household of God.

 

[Bob S]

hogwash

bugkiller

Scripture please. Parroting what some guru has proclaimed does not necessarily mean it is truth.

 

[Dkh587]

The olive tree is Jesus Christ. The olive tree is not Israel. This olive tree/Jesus Christ has natural (Israel) branches and wild (Gentile) branches. I don't believe we become a spiritual Israel. We are simply sons and daughters of Abraham by faith and we have no distinctions between us due to nationality.

Ishmael was a biological son of Abraham and his descendants are the biological sons and daughters of Abraham.

Abraham's biological line through Isaac became known as Israel because Jacob/Israel was his biological grandson. Abraham was never called an Israelite because he preceded the Israelite nation. Abraham was actually from UR of the Chaldeans when God called him and it was his faith when he was a Chaldean which pleased God. Genesis 11:30-32, Genesis 12:1-4




Christians are not Israelites, and Christians do not follow the law of Moses which was made for the disobedient Israelites only. It is true that Jesus Christ made a new covenant with Israel, but that is because this new covenant was necessary in order to get rid of their first/old covenant with God. However, this new covenant was not made just for the Israelites. It was made for all the sons and daughters of Abraham by faith who believe in Jesus Christ. Gentile/Greek Christians do not ever become Israelites, but they are sons and daughters of Abraham by faith.

John 10:16
And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. rsv
​

Jews and Gentiles/Greeks were separated by their religion practices and they kept themselves separate from each other because of this. The Israelites looked down upon the Gentiles/Greeks and the Samaritans. Jesus made a new covenant for all people and it makes no distinctions between nationalities.

Ephesians 2:13-16
But now in Christ Jesus you (Greeks/Gentiles) who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both (Jew and Greek) one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances (law of Moses), that he might create in himself one new man (Christianity/Church) in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body (Church) through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility (between Jew and Greek/Gentile) to an end. rsv

Romans 4:16
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants—not only to the adherents of the law (of Moses) but also to those (Greeks/Gentiles) who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, rsv

Galatians 3:6-8
Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” ​

Paul wrote that at one time, we were foreigners(Gentiles) and not part of the citizenship of Israel.


Ephesians 2:11-13 ISR98

“Therefore remember that you, once gentiles in the flesh, who are called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called ‘the circumcision’ made in the flesh by hands, that at that time you were without Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no expectation and without Elohim in the world. But now in Messiah Yahushua you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.”

Paul wrote that now, through the Messiah, we are now citizens of Israel.

Ephesians 2:18-22 ISR98

Because through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the set-apart ones and members of the household of Elohim, having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Yahushua Messiah Himself being chief corner-stone, in whom all the building, being joined together, grows into a set-apart Dwelling Place in יהוה, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of Elohim in the Spirit.

There is an Israel that some of the natural born Israelites are not a part of

Paul is saying that only children of the promise are Israel(there are natural-born, and foreigners included in this Israel)

Romans 9:6-8 ISR98

However, it is not as though the word of Elohim has failed. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, neither are they all children because they are the seed of Aḇraham, but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of Elohim, but the children of the promise are reckoned as the seed.

"Christians" are children of the promise and reckoned as the seed, therefore making us citizens of the true Israel, the Israel that is made up of children of the promise. That means you and me! We are a part of Israel. There are some genetic Israelites who are not.

The covenant was made with Israel. If we're not Israel, then we're not part of the covenant.

There's no disctinction anymore between Israelite and gentile because all believers in the Messiah are ONE and make up the true nation of Israel. One flock, and one shepherd.

Since we as "Christians" are citizens of Israel, then the scripture about God writing His commands and ways on Israel's heart applies to us

The Holy Spirit is given to us to guide us and lead us into obeying God's commands. He promised to put his law and commands and statutes on our hearts, and to cause us to walk in them

 

[Bob S]

Paul wrote that at one time, we were foreigners(Gentiles) and not part of the citizenship of Israel.


Ephesians 2:11-13 ISR98



Paul wrote that now, through the Messiah, we are now citizens of Israel.

Ephesians 2:18-22 ISR98



There is an Israel that some of the natural born Israelites are not a part of

Paul is saying that only children of the promise are Israel(there are natural-born, and foreigners included in this Israel)

Romans 9:6-8 ISR98


"Christians" are children of the promise and reckoned as the seed, therefore making us citizens of the true Israel, the Israel that is made up of children of the promise. That means you and me! We are a part of Israel. There are some genetic Israelites who are not.

The covenant was made with Israel. If we're not Israel, then we're not part of the covenant.

There's no disctinction anymore between Israelite and gentile because all believers in the Messiah are ONE and make up the true nation of Israel. One flock, and one shepherd.

Since we as "Christians" are citizens of Israel, then the scripture about God writing His commands and ways on Israel's heart applies to us

The Holy Spirit is given to us to guide us and lead us into obeying God's commands. He promised to put his law and commands and statutes on our hearts, and to cause us to walk in them

If anybody is teaching us to NOT obey God's commands, as you, Bob S, bugkiller and others do, then they are teaching lies from the devil. Plain and simple.

I will go with Paul and John and what you believe has to be a lie and from probably sincere group of people that do not or will not believe the New Testament. You have been duped.

I obey God's commands for Christians (see in green below) John was not just flapping his gums.

 

[Dkh587]

I will go with Paul and John and what you believe has to be a lie and from probably sincere group of people that do not or will not believe the New Testament. You have been duped.

I obey God's commands for Christians (see in green below) John was not just flapping his gums.

how do I not believe the "New Testament? i just quoted from the "New Testament"

 

[bugkiller]

Scripture please. Parroting what some guru has proclaimed does not necessarily mean it is truth.

Sorry but I don't think there is any such for hogwash. I rightly don't know what is more worthless - hogwash or those bumps on the underside of a boar.

bugkiller

 

[Jan001]

Paul wrote that at one time, we were foreigners(Gentiles) and not part of the citizenship of Israel.

Ephesians 2:11-13 “Therefore remember that you, once gentiles in the flesh, who are called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called ‘the circumcision’ made in the flesh by hands, that at that time you were without Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no expectation and without Elohim in the world. But now in Messiah Yahushua you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.”​

Paul wrote that now, through the Messiah, we are now citizens of Israel.

That is not what Paul said. Paul said that the Gentiles were excluded from the citizenship of Israel and that the Gentiles were also strangers from the covenants of promise (for the Israelites) and so Gentiles had no expectation of salvation without God in the world. But, now because Jesus Christ (God) has come into the world, we Gentiles have become saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. It states nothing at all about Gentiles becoming Israelites.

Romans 9:6-8 ISR98
"Christians" are children of the promise and reckoned as the seed, therefore making us citizens of the true Israel, the Israel that is made up of children of the promise. That means you and me! We are a part of Israel. There are some genetic Israelites who are not.

The covenant was made with Israel. If we're not Israel, then we're not part of the covenant.

That is not what Paul said. Jesus made the new covenant with Israel in order to get rid of their first covenant, but He also promised to save the "spiritual" descendants of Abraham, those persons who live in other nations who believe in Jesus Christ (the Seed/Offspring of Abraham) by faith. Most of these spiritual descendants of Abraham are not from the nation of Israel.

Romans 9:6-8
But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel (the ten lost tribes are not pure Israelites because they intermarried with Gentiles and so they quite practicingtheir Jewish faith), 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants; but “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh (Israelites) who are the children of God, but the children of the promise (all the people who are saved by faith like their spiritual father Abraham who was saved by faith) are reckoned as descendants. rsv


Matthew 21:43
Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you (Israelite nation) and given to a nation (the Gentiles who believe by faith) producing the fruits of it.” rsv​

There's no disctinction anymore between Israelite and gentile because all believers in the Messiah are ONE and make up the true nation of Israel. One flock, and one shepherd.

That is not what Paul said. We Gentile Christians do not call ourselves Israelites because we are not biological descendants of Jacob/Israel/Jews. Both the Gentiles and Jews who become believers in Jesus Christ are called disciples of Jesus Christ/Christians.

Gentiles do not ever become Israelites. Gentiles become disciples of Jesus Christ/Christians. Israelites do not ever become Gentiles. Israelites become disciples of Jesus Christ/Christians.

Acts 11:26
and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians. rsv​

Acts 15:8-10
And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them (the Gentiles) the Holy Spirit just as he did to us (Israelites); 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? rsv​

Since we as "Christians" are citizens of Israel, then the scripture about God writing His commands and ways on Israel's heart applies to us.

Romans 4:16
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants—not only to the adherents of the law (Israelites) but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (Gentiles), for he is the father of us all, rsv
​

Abraham was a Gentile when he was called to be the father of God's people/household of God. Gentile Christians do not ever become citizens of the nation of Israel.

Galatians 3:14
that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. rsc​

The Holy Spirit is given to us to guide us and lead us into obeying God's commands. He promised to put his law and commands and statutes on our hearts, and to cause us to walk in them

If anybody is teaching us to NOT obey God's commands, as you, Bob S, bugkiller and others do, then they are teaching lies from the devil. Plain and simple.

Abraham was not an Israelite. We Christians are descendants of Abraham by faith.

I have never taught that Christians do not need to obey God's commands.

I teach that Christians do not need to obey God's commands for the Israelites in the law of Moses unless they were also taught by Jesus and His apostles in the commandments for the New Covenant.

When asked which commandments people must keep in order to be approved to inherit/enter eternal life, Jesus taught the following:

Commandments for Christians about neighbors

Matthew 19:16-19
And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” rsv
​

Commandments for Christians about both God and neighbors

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” rsv​

 

[Dkh587]

That is not what Paul said. Paul said that the Gentiles were excluded from the citizenship of Israel and that the Gentiles were also strangers from the covenants of promise (for the Israelites) and so Gentiles had no expectation of salvation without God in the world. But, now because Jesus Christ (God) has come into the world, we Gentiles have become saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. It states nothing at all about Gentiles becoming Israelites.

It said we're citizens of Israel. It can't get much more clear than that.

That is not what Paul said.

Jesus made the new covenant with Israel in order to get rid of their first covenant, but He also promised to save the "spiritual" descendants of Abraham, those persons who live in other nations who believe in Jesus Christ (the Seed/Offspring of Abraham) by faith. Most of these spiritual descendants of Abraham are not from the nation of Israel.

Romans 9:6-8
But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel (the ten lost tribes are not pure Israelites because they intermarried with Gentiles and so they quite practicingtheir Jewish faith), 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants; but “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh (Israelites) who are the children of God, but the children of the promise (all the people who are saved by faith like their spiritual father Abraham who was saved by faith) are reckoned as descendants. rsv


Matthew 21:43
Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you (Israelite nation) and given to a nation (the Gentiles who believe by faith) producing the fruits of it.” rsv​

We are Israelites/Hebrews. We are not natural-born Israelites/Hebrews. We are grafted-in through the Messiah Yahushua. Paul wrote about this in the verses I quoted earlier. Saying "That is not what Paul said" over and over doesn't change the fact that Paul said these things.

That is not what Paul said.

We Gentile Christians do not call ourselves Israelites because we are not biological descendants of Jacob/Israel/Jews. Both the Gentiles and Jews who become believers in Jesus Christ are called disciples of Jesus Christ/Christians.

Gentiles do not ever become Israelites. Gentiles become disciples of Jesus Christ/Christians. Israelites do not ever become Gentiles. Israelites become disciples of Jesus Christ/Christians.

Acts 11:26
and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians. rsv​

Acts 15:8-10
And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them (the Gentiles) the Holy Spirit just as he did to us (Israelites); 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? rsv​

Romans 4:16
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants—not only to the adherents of the law (Israelites) but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (Gentiles), for he is the father of us all, rsv
​

Abraham was a Gentile when he was called to be the father of God's people/household of God. Gentile Christians do not ever become citizens of the nation of Israel.

Galatians 3:14
that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. rsc​

​

Abraham was not an Israelite.

We Christians are descendants of Abraham by faith.

I have never taught that Christians do not need to obey God's commands.

I teach that Christians do not need to obey God's commands for the Israelites in the law of Moses unless they were also taught by Jesus and His apostles in the commandments for the New Covenant.



When asked which commandments people must keep in order to be approved to inherit/enter eternal life, Jesus taught the following:

Commandments for Christians about neighbors

Matthew 19:16-19
And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” rsv
​

Commandments for Christians about both God and neighbors

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” rsv​

Something isn't adding up. Just because a commandment was not mentioned in the "New Testament" does not mean it's not valid and applicable to the life of a believer.

Did Yahushua or the apostles specifically speak against beastiality and incest? Last time I checked, it's never mentioned in the "New Testament"



We are a part of the nation of Israel. This was the nation that God promised to Abraham. I've already shown in my previous post that we are a part of Israel. I'm not gonna post the same verses over and over.


Genesis 14:13 NIV

A man who had escaped came and reported this to Abram the Hebrew. Now Abram was living near the great trees of Mamre the Amorite, a brother of Eshkol and Aner, all of whom were allied with Abram.

Moses told Pharaoh, "The God of the Hebrews has met us with".

Exodus 5:1-3 NIV

Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, “This is what YAH, the Elohim of Israel, says: ‘Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the wilderness.’ 

Pharaoh said, “Who is YAH, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know YAH and I will not let Israel go.”

Then they said, “The Elohim of the Hebrews has met with us. Now let us take a three-day journey into the wilderness to offer sacrifices to YAH our Elohim or he may strike us with plagues or with the sword.

Abraham and the Israelites were all called Hebrews. Abraham was a gentile BEFORE God called him out. He then became a Hebrew, and was called one. Abraham was never referred to as a gentile or anything other than a Hebrew once he believed & was saved

There is no such thing as "commandments" for Christians. All of God's commandments are for Christians and anybody who wants to love and obey God.

If you teach that Christian's shouldn't obey any of the commands, then you are teaching and promoting sin and lawlessness.

There's not 2 sets of commandments for different groups of people. There's 1.

The 10 commandments and any/all other commands in the Torah were only given to Israel, just like everything else that God did through the nation of Israel. But now we are citizens of God's kingdom and part of His nation of People

An Israelite is a genetic descendant of Abraham. We may not be natural descendants, but we become sons of Abraham. Anybody that's a son of Abraham is a Hebrew/Israelite. That is, if you are a son of Abraham according to the promise.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 2 "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly - neither is circumcision of the flesh.. but he is a Jew who is one inwardly.."

Hence the NEW Covenant made with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" Jeremiah 31:31-33