If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Jan001]

There is a theology that basically describes the Bible as evil - and that most of it must be deleted to make it "good".

happened in the dark ages too - they simply burned the Bible.

Ordinary men who were not rich or who were not scholars did not have Bibles during the so-called Dark Ages. They could not afford them.

 

[klutedavid]

My church teaches that everyone should be vegetarians and that eating blood is bad.

Is this what you were asking?

Does this prove the OT has been deleted?








Eph 2 the dividing wall between the two groups - where one is called the circumcision and the other the uncircumcision - to stand for literal Jews vs literal physical gentiles - had to do with the ceremonies and rituals.

Notice how in Isaiah 66:23 it does not say "all mankind shall be circumcised" but rather "all mankind will come before Me to worship - from Sabbath to Sabbath".



Obviously that is false since both Jews AND Gentiles are required to not take God's name in vain.

Please be serious.



Sacrifices - ordinances - ceremonies that divide Jews vs gentiles.

As opposed to "all mankind will come before Me to worship - from Sabbath to Sabbath". and as we see in Acts 13, Acts 17:4 and even Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" Jews and gentiles worship together in the synagogues.

My church teaches that everyone should be vegetarians and that eating blood is bad.

Is this what you were asking?

Does this prove the OT has been deleted?



Not according to anything you have actually posted. In all your posts you show nothing but preference against certain parts of scripture. How is that then "my problem with Acts 15"??

You ignored almost every detail in the chapter that we discussed so far.



On the contrary - Romans 4 says that Abraham receives the promise while uncircumcised so that he can be the father of all believers that are uncircumcised.

Rom 4
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

Nothing in NT or OT demanding that all gentiles be circumcised or they can't be saved - can't go to heaven.

Your efforts so far - only show that you "made that up".

Which is why I ask - why do that? Why not stick with the Bible - instead?



Ok so that is clear - which means that Acts 15 is not deleting some OT imaginary text where circumcision was for all gentiles -- now supposedly change in the NT.

Which is why I requested that you not make that up when appealing to Acts 15.



Eph 2 the dividing wall between the two groups - where one is called the circumcision and the other the uncircumcision - to stand for literal Jews vs literal physical gentiles - had to do with the ceremonies and rituals.

Notice how in Isaiah 66:23 it does not say "all mankind shall be circumcised" but rather "all mankind will come before Me to worship - from Sabbath to Sabbath".



Obviously that is false since both Jews AND Gentiles are required to not take God's name in vain.

Please be serious.



Sacrifices - ordinances - ceremonies that divide Jews vs gentiles.

As opposed to "all mankind will come before Me to worship - from Sabbath to Sabbath". and as we see in Acts 13, Acts 17:4 and even Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" Jews and gentiles worship together in the synagogues.

Hello Bob.

We are making some progress now, thank you for your honesty.

My church teaches that everyone should be vegetarians and that eating blood is bad.

This reply of yours is exactly what I was asking for Bob.

Though the decree of the SDA church is not what the scripture teaches us Bob.

Here is what the scripture teaches.

Genesis 9
3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
4 Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Meat is on the menu (every moving thing), but you must drain the blood before eating it.

Luke 15
23 and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate;

The father issued this instruction for the return of the prodigal son, kill and eat the calf.

Acts 10
12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of
the air. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I
have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” 15 Again a voice came to him a second time,
“What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.”

God is telling Peter to eat meat (all four footed animals), God has cleansed it now and it is no longer unholy.

1 Corinthians 8
13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again.

Paul was a carnivorous man, but a vegetarian, if and only if, it causes someone else to stumble.

1 Corinthians 10
25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake.

Paul teaches that meat is definitely on the menu.

Bob, the prohibition regarding the eating of meat is not God's decree, Bob you can kill and eat
moving creatures.

The onus is upon you to provide the scripture to justify this initial claim of the SDA.

 

[BobRyan]

Correct, there can be no doubt that the apostles in Jerusalem have enforced this rule on blood.

Does your church enforce the decree of the apostles or not, Bob?

My church teaches that everyone should be vegetarians and that eating blood is bad.

Is this what you were asking?

Does this prove the OT has been deleted?

Hello Bob.

We are making some progress now, thank you for your honesty.

This reply of yours is exactly what I was asking for Bob.

Though the decree of the SDA church is not what the scripture teaches us Bob.

Here is what the scripture teaches.

Genesis 9
3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
4 Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Meat is on the menu (every moving thing), but you must drain the blood before eating it.
.

Here is an interesting way to avoid Eph 6:2 -- but never fear - I will repeat the Eph 6:2 question "again" until you feel comfortable answering the question. I am ok with waiting.

As for Genesis 1 not being in scripture.

Here is what Genesis 1 says -

Gen 1
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”

We don't have the same "delete scripture" model that you seem to be using.

Notice that the Genesis 1 command - does not negate or delete Lev 16 - it fully conforms to it by not allowing any case for eating animal blood. Is this why you consider it against scripture?

1 Cor 3
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Eating meat today leads to increase risk for heart disease, obesity, cancer, diabetes.

"Eating meat kills more people than previously thought"

(NewsTarget) There is no more denying it. Meat contains highly toxic substances that are responsible for many deaths and diseases. Heavy meat consumption increases your risk of dying from all causes, including heart disease and cancer, according to a federal study conducted by the National Cancer Institute and featured in Archives of Internal Medicine on Monday.
http://www.naturalnews.com/025957_meat_eating_cancer.html


This is not considered the 11th commandment in the SDA church by any means - but we do not suggest turning a blind eye to the facts of nature or the responsibility you have not to drink or eat poison.

some plants are poison - we don't recommend those either.

Now back to Eph 6:2 - see next post.

 

[BobRyan]

Non-Christian Jews would not touch Gentiles with even a ten-foot pole. The Gentiles were regarded as "unclean".

Until you read the actual Bible in places like Acts 13, Acts 17:4 and Acts 18:4.

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

Since a lot of effort is made to ignore this bible detail -- I am adding it again.

Hello Bob.

Thanks for the reply, a reply that I will have to unscramble.

in your unscrambling you appear to be carefully avoiding this -- in my posts... as I keep insisting that you are avoiding it.

======================================
There is no NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Or in your case "this one law deletes all of known scripture" in John 13.

Eph 6:2 the text you keep religiously avoiding "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- FIRST commandment WHERE??/ in Lev 19:18???? No!! how about in Deut 6:5??/ No !!

I fully endorse this commandment, though I would exceed this commandment and suggest you love your parents.
You cannot claim to just honor your parents and love everyone else. Love your parents Bob.

The detail you are avoiding... FIRST commandment WHERE??

1. in Lev 19:18???? Is the 5th commandment the "first commandment in Lev 19:18 with a promise"??? No!!

2. how about in Deut 6:5??/ Is the 5th commandment the "first commandment in Deut 6:5 with a promise"??? No!!

how about the first commandment in John 13 with a promise??? no! that is not the case and we both know it.

It just does not get any easier than this - and even your own pro-sunday scholars know it. Indeed even you and I both know it.

 

[BobRyan]

A lot of effort made by the Jews - to ignore scripture in favor of man-made-tradition.

See it here.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said" -


And we see focus on traditions-of-man over the Bible here

Modern-day Jewish rules for the Sabbath:

"Following is a brief summary of some of the Shabbat laws you are most likely to encounter.

Let's start with some basic activities from which we refrain on Shabbat:

• 
  
  
  • writing, erasing, and tearing;
  • business transactions;
  • driving or riding in cars or other vehicles;
  • shopping;
  • using the telephone;
  • turning on or off anything which uses electricity, including lights, radios, television, computer, air-conditioners and alarm clocks;
  • cooking, baking or kindling a fire;
  • gardening and grass-mowing;
  • doing laundry;

Does all this mean that Shabbat is somewhat of a miserable affair, where we sit hungry in the dark? Not at all. It simply means that we have to prepare for Shabbat in advance, so that, on the contrary, we celebrate in luxury, without doing any of the actual work, on Shabbat.

For example: Lights which will be needed on Shabbat are turned on before Shabbat. Automatic timers may be used for lights and some appliances as long as they have been set before Shabbat. The refrigerator may be used, but again, we have to ensure that it's use does not engender any of the forbidden Shabbat activities. Thus, the fridge light should be disconnected before Shabbat by unscrewing the bulb slightly and a freezer whose fan is activated when the door is opened may not be used.

Another example: We may not cook or light a fire, so we cook before Shabbat and keep the food warm through special methods that do not violate any Shabbat prohibitions. See Food Preparation on Shabbat for the laws and methods involved.

In addition to those mentioned above, two other important categories which are not permitted are using or touching items that are considered muktzah and carrying outdoors.

Muktzah

Many objects have been designated by our sages as Muktzah--we are forbidden from moving them, in some cases, even for activities permitted on Shabbat. Muktzah may not be moved directly with one's hand or even indirectly with an object (such as sweeping it away with a broom). However, Muktzah may be moved in a very awkward, unusual manner, with other parts of the body, e.g.: with one's teeth or elbow, or by blowing on it.

Some of the categories of Muktzah are:

1. Objects which have no designated use, e.g.: Stones, plants, flowers in a vase, raw food (inedible in its present state, such as beans); an object that has broken and become no longer useful such as a broken bowl, a button that falls off; ​

No wonder even your own pro-sunday scholars see the flaw in such arguments as you have made here.

Notice Acts 13, Acts 17:1 Acts 18:4 "Every Sabbath" - both Jews AND Gentiles in worship services together in the synagogues "Sabbath after Sabbath".

The point remains.

 

[klutedavid]

My church teaches that everyone should be vegetarians and that eating blood is bad.

Is this what you were asking?

Does this prove the OT has been deleted?



Here is an interesting way to avoid Eph 6:2 -- but never fear - I will repeat the Eph 6:2 question "again" until you feel comfortable answering the question. I am ok with waiting.

As for Genesis 1 not being in scripture.

Here is what Genesis 1 says -

Gen 1
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”

We don't have the same "delete scripture" model that you seem to be using.

Notice that the Genesis 1 command - does not negate or delete Lev 16 - it fully conforms to it by not allowing any case for eating animal blood. Is this why you consider it against scripture?

1 Cor 3
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Eating meat today leads to increase risk for heart disease, obesity, cancer, diabetes.

"Eating meat kills more people than previously thought"

(NewsTarget) There is no more denying it. Meat contains highly toxic substances that are responsible for many deaths and diseases. Heavy meat consumption increases your risk of dying from all causes, including heart disease and cancer, according to a federal study conducted by the National Cancer Institute and featured in Archives of Internal Medicine on Monday.
http://www.naturalnews.com/025957_meat_eating_cancer.html


This is not considered the 11th commandment in the SDA church by any means - but we do not suggest turning a blind eye to the facts of nature or the responsibility you have not to drink or eat poison.

some plants are poison - we don't recommend those either.

Now back to Eph 6:2 - see next post.

Hello Bob.

Your not being entirely truthful Bob.

Historically, we have learned that everything is toxic; it is only the dose that separates the toxic
from the non-toxic. Even water is toxic if a large amount (4–5 liters) is consumed.
(US National Library of Medicine)

All food groups are toxic, it is the quantity consumed, eat enough of many fruits and vegetables
and your body will suffer toxic shock. The human body cannot excrete certain vitamins quickly,
eat enough of many fruits and you will die.

Your saying Bob that meat is toxic. This is utterly untrue, meat is only harmful if eaten in 'heavy'
quantities. This is what your article states, 'HEAVY meat consumption increases your risk of dying'.

Any food item whether green or meat, eaten in heavy servings will have harmful effects.

Eating meat today leads to increase risk for heart disease, obesity, cancer, diabetes.

Incorrect Bob, eating meat whether it be fish, or even chicken, does not increase any risk of cancer.

The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar sweetened
beverages to help prevent diabetes. Sugar-sweetened beverages include beverages like: regular soda,
fruit punch, fruit drinks, ...(www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/#sthash.aldNL1bC.dpuf)

Luke 24
41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you
anything here to eat?” 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

Jesus ate meat, the apostles ate meat, all foods are clean. What God has announced let no man
contradict, God declared all food groups clean.

Acts 10
14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”
15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.”

The SDA declares some food groups unclean, God declared all food groups clean!

 

[klutedavid]

My church teaches that everyone should be vegetarians and that eating blood is bad.

Is this what you were asking?

Does this prove the OT has been deleted?



Here is an interesting way to avoid Eph 6:2 -- but never fear - I will repeat the Eph 6:2 question "again" until you feel comfortable answering the question. I am ok with waiting.

As for Genesis 1 not being in scripture.

Here is what Genesis 1 says -

Gen 1
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”

We don't have the same "delete scripture" model that you seem to be using.

Notice that the Genesis 1 command - does not negate or delete Lev 16 - it fully conforms to it by not allowing any case for eating animal blood. Is this why you consider it against scripture?

1 Cor 3
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Eating meat today leads to increase risk for heart disease, obesity, cancer, diabetes.

"Eating meat kills more people than previously thought"

(NewsTarget) There is no more denying it. Meat contains highly toxic substances that are responsible for many deaths and diseases. Heavy meat consumption increases your risk of dying from all causes, including heart disease and cancer, according to a federal study conducted by the National Cancer Institute and featured in Archives of Internal Medicine on Monday.
http://www.naturalnews.com/025957_meat_eating_cancer.html


This is not considered the 11th commandment in the SDA church by any means - but we do not suggest turning a blind eye to the facts of nature or the responsibility you have not to drink or eat poison.

some plants are poison - we don't recommend those either.

Now back to Eph 6:2 - see next post.

Hello Bob.

You still have not supplied the scripture to support the idea that eating
meat is prohibited. If you make the claim that meat itself is unclean,
then you must prove it with the scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Your not being entirely truthful Bob.

Hi David - I have to admit I do prefer to think of myself as being entirely truthful.

Historically, we have learned that everything is toxic;

David -- really. Misdirection again?

What we do know is some plants are edible and others are poison. I think we can take that to the bank - and most school children would agree with us on that point.

If you want to argue that all plants kill and all foods are poison, all are toxic... I will let you start a thread on that topic and wage that lonely war as you wish.

Next you will be telling us that if you drink 20 gallons of fresh water in 5 minutes you will die - so water is also toxic and nothing should be considered off limits since we all drink water.

For now - I am just going to stick with the obvious common sense statements as I have given them.

it is only the dose that separates the toxic
from the non-toxic. Even water is toxic if a large amount (4–5 liters) is consumed.

oh no wait! you just did do that!! hahaha - that is pretty funny!

thanks.

meat is only harmful if eaten in 'heavy'
quantities.

By contrast we have --

http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resources/diet-cancer/facts/meat-consumption-and-cancer-risk

Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk
The World Health Organization has determined that dietary factors account for at least 30 percent of all cancers in Western countries and up to 20 percent in developing countries. When cancer researchers started to search for links between diet and cancer, one of the most noticeable findings was that people who avoided meat were much less likely to develop the disease. Large studies in England and Germany showed that vegetarians were about 40 percent less likely to develop cancer compared to meat eaters.1-3 In the United States, researchers studied Seventh-day Adventists, a religious group that is remarkable because, although nearly all members avoid tobacco and alcohol and follow generally healthful lifestyles, about half of the Adventist population is vegetarian, while the other half consumes modest amounts of meat.



This fact allowed scientists to separate the effects of eating meat from other factors. Overall, these studies showed significant reductions in cancer risk among those who avoided meat.4 In contrast, Harvard studies showed that daily meat eaters have approximately three times the colon cancer risk, compared to those who rarely eat meat.

A number of hypotheses have been advanced to explain the connection between meat consumption and cancer risk. First, meat is devoid of fiber and other nutrients that have a protective effect. Meat also contains animal protein, saturated fat, and, in some cases, carcinogenic compounds such as heterocyclic amines (HCA) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) formed during the processing or cooking of meat. HCAs, formed as meat is cooked at high temperatures, and PAHs, formed during the burning of organic substances, are believed to increase cancer risk. In addition, the high fat content of meat and other animal products increases hormone production, thus increasing the risk of hormone-related cancers such as breast and prostate cancer.

In 2007, the American Institute for Cancer Research (AICR) published their second review of the major studies on food, nutrition, and cancer prevention. For cancers of the oesophagus, lung, pancreas, stomach, collorectum, endometrium, and prostate, it was determined that red meat (beef, pork, or lamb) and processed meat consumption possibly increased cancer risk. For colorectal cancer, a review of the literature determined that there is convincing scientific evidence that red meat increased cancer risk and that processed meat, saturated/animal fat, and heavily cooked meat were also convincing of increased risk.5

==============================================

Since you are determined to have a "diet and foods" discussion instead of talking about the Ten Commandments and how Ephesians 6:2 is impossible for you to avoid -- I have started a "Diet and foods" thread for you. We need not derail this thread.

Here is your "food" thread -- 5 minutes ago #1

Enjoy!

 

[BobRyan]

Now we return to the actual subject of this thread --- and Ephesians 6:2

=======================================================

Your argument that someone in the Bible would take Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" as Laws to be used to delete God's spoken Word in Ex 20 where it then says in Deut 5 "And He added no more" -- is pure fiction. So you merely 'quote you'.

And we both know it.

Most impressively - so also do your own pro-sunday scholars know it. They know that the Ten Commandments were not deleted by Lev 19:18 or Deut 6:5 in either the OT or the NT.

Nor is there a NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Eph 6:2 the text you keep religiously avoiding "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- FIRST commandment WHERE??/

in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

We can all see this. You and I both know this is true.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping God's Commandments" --

God's commandments where the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise".

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

[bugkiller]

Hi David - I have to admit I do prefer to think of myself as being entirely truthful.



David -- really. Misdirection again?

What we do know is some plants are edible and others are poison. I think we can take that to the bank - and most school children would agree with us on that point.

If you want to argue that all plants kill and all foods are poison, all are toxic... I will let you start a thread on that topic and wage that lonely war as you wish.

Next you will be telling us that if you drink 20 gallons of fresh water in 5 minutes you will die - so water is also toxic and nothing should be considered off limits since we all drink water.

You will definitely be throwing up.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hi David - I have to admit I do prefer to think of myself as being entirely truthful.



David -- really. Misdirection again?

What we do know is some plants are edible and others are poison. I think we can take that to the bank - and most school children would agree with us on that point.

If you want to argue that all plants kill and all foods are poison, all are toxic... I will let you start a thread on that topic and wage that lonely war as you wish.

Next you will be telling us that if you drink 20 gallons of fresh water in 5 minutes you will die - so water is also toxic and nothing should be considered off limits since we all drink water.

For now - I am just going to stick with the obvious common sense statements as I have given them.




oh no wait! you just did do that!! hahaha - that is pretty funny!

thanks.





By contrast we have --

http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resources/diet-cancer/facts/meat-consumption-and-cancer-risk

Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk
The World Health Organization has determined that dietary factors account for at least 30 percent of all cancers in Western countries and up to 20 percent in developing countries. When cancer researchers started to search for links between diet and cancer, one of the most noticeable findings was that people who avoided meat were much less likely to develop the disease. Large studies in England and Germany showed that vegetarians were about 40 percent less likely to develop cancer compared to meat eaters.1-3 In the United States, researchers studied Seventh-day Adventists, a religious group that is remarkable because, although nearly all members avoid tobacco and alcohol and follow generally healthful lifestyles, about half of the Adventist population is vegetarian, while the other half consumes modest amounts of meat.



This fact allowed scientists to separate the effects of eating meat from other factors. Overall, these studies showed significant reductions in cancer risk among those who avoided meat.4 In contrast, Harvard studies showed that daily meat eaters have approximately three times the colon cancer risk, compared to those who rarely eat meat.

A number of hypotheses have been advanced to explain the connection between meat consumption and cancer risk. First, meat is devoid of fiber and other nutrients that have a protective effect. Meat also contains animal protein, saturated fat, and, in some cases, carcinogenic compounds such as heterocyclic amines (HCA) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) formed during the processing or cooking of meat. HCAs, formed as meat is cooked at high temperatures, and PAHs, formed during the burning of organic substances, are believed to increase cancer risk. In addition, the high fat content of meat and other animal products increases hormone production, thus increasing the risk of hormone-related cancers such as breast and prostate cancer.

In 2007, the American Institute for Cancer Research (AICR) published their second review of the major studies on food, nutrition, and cancer prevention. For cancers of the oesophagus, lung, pancreas, stomach, collorectum, endometrium, and prostate, it was determined that red meat (beef, pork, or lamb) and processed meat consumption possibly increased cancer risk. For colorectal cancer, a review of the literature determined that there is convincing scientific evidence that red meat increased cancer risk and that processed meat, saturated/animal fat, and heavily cooked meat were also convincing of increased risk.5

==============================================

Since you are determined to have a "diet and foods" discussion instead of talking about the Ten Commandments and how Ephesians 6:2 is impossible for you to avoid -- I have started a "Diet and foods" thread for you. We need not derail this thread.

Here is your "food" thread -- 5 minutes ago #1

Enjoy!

And yet I eat lunch with a 100 year old man who eats pork right along with me. He claims he was hardly ever sick in his whole life.

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

God did not declare all foods clean, you can find which food are clean in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. If anyone come along and declares otherwise they are a false prophet (Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Deuteronomy 13:1-5). God considers eating the unclean foods an abomination (Isaiah 65:4) and in the future will destroy all who eat unclean meat such as pig and mice (Isaiah 66:15-17)

 

[Bob S]

God did not declare all foods clean, you can find which food are clean in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. If anyone come along and declares otherwise they are a false prophet (Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Deuteronomy 13:1-5). God considers eating the unclean foods an abomination (Isaiah 65:4) and in the future will destroy all who eat unclean meat such as pig and mice (Isaiah 66:15-17)

Again and again, God only imposed those laws om Israel. Pigs have been eaten by all other nations on Earth since recorded history at least. All of the people ever born are God's children. If he didn't want them to eat pigs I am sure He would ahve communicated that to them. Please explan why everyone else could eat what they wanted and only Israel could not.

 

[Jan001]

Until you read the actual Bible in places like Acts 13, Acts 17:4 and Acts 18:4.

The point remains.

What point is that exactly?

The apostles went to preach in the synagogues on Saturdays because that is where the Jews were gathered together in large numbers. Devout converts (Greeks) to Judaism were welcome in the synagogues also. The synagogues welcomed Jews and devout converts to Judaism. They did not welcome Greeks who were not devout converts to Judaism.

Paul did not go to the synagogues on Saturdays to preach to the Christians. The Christians gathered together to worship on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

Acts 13:13-17
Now Paul and his company set sail from Paphos, and came to Perga in Pamphyl′ia. And John left them and returned to Jerusalem; 14 but they passed on from Perga and came to Antioch of Pisid′ia. And on the sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said: “Men of Israel, and you that fear God, listen. 17 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with uplifted arm he led them out of it. ......
36 For David, after he had served the counsel of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but he whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Let it be known to you therefore, brethren, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him every one that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses. 40 Beware, therefore, lest there come upon you what is said in the prophets:

41 ‘Behold, you scoffers, and wonder, and perish;
for I do a deed in your days,
a deed you will never believe, if one declares it to you.’”

42 As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next sabbath. 43 And when the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

44 The next sabbath almost the whole city gathered together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted what was spoken by Paul, and reviled him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you (Jews). Since you thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles (non-Jews). 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

‘I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth.’”


48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
rsv


Please note that they did not meet in the synagogue on the next sabbath day; there were too many people to fit in the synagogue. Greeks/Gentiles who were in the city also heard Paul's preaching to the Jews and the converts to Judaism. Some of these Greeks/Gentiles believed Paul and they became Christians.

Acts 17:4
And some of them (Jews) were persuaded, and joined Paul and Silas; as did a great many of the devout Greeks (converts to Judaism) and not a few of the leading (Jewish) women. rsv


Acts 18:4
And he argued in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded Jews and Greeks (devout converts to Judaism). rsv

​

The Greeks in the synagogues on the Sabbath were devout converts to Judaism. Only Jews and converts to Judaism were allowed in the synagogues.

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, rsv
​

These Jews are not Christians. These Greeks are not Christians. It is the Church of God which is comprised of Christians.

​

In Christianity, there is no distinction between Jew and Greek by nationality. Believers in Christianity are called the church of God and they meet together to worship on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. rsv

Colossians 3:11
Here there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scyth′ian, slave, free man, but Christ is all, and in all. rsv


​

 

[Jan001]

Now we return to the actual subject of this thread --- and Ephesians 6:2

=======================================================

Your argument that someone in the Bible would take Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" as Laws to be used to delete God's spoken Word in Ex 20 where it then says in Deut 5 "And He added no more" -- is pure fiction. So you merely 'quote you'.

And we both know it.

Most impressively - so also do your own pro-sunday scholars know it. They know that the Ten Commandments were not deleted by Lev 19:18 or Deut 6:5 in either the OT or the NT.

Nor is there a NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Eph 6:2 the text you keep religiously avoiding "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- FIRST commandment WHERE??/

in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

We can all see this. You and I both know this is true.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping God's Commandments" --

God's commandments where the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise".

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

How do you explain the following:

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. rsv

Romans 6:14-16
For sin (transgressions committed against the commands in the law of Moses) will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? rsv


​

 

[Jan001]

God did not declare all foods clean, you can find which food are clean in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. If anyone come along and declares otherwise they are a false prophet (Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Deuteronomy 13:1-5). God considers eating the unclean foods an abomination (Isaiah 65:4) and in the future will destroy all who eat unclean meat such as pig and mice (Isaiah 66:15-17)

Mark 7:14-20
And he called the people to him again, and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: 15 there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him.” 17 And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. rsv

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. rsv​

 

[BABerean2]

God did not declare all foods clean, you can find which food are clean in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. If anyone come along and declares otherwise they are a false prophet (Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Deuteronomy 13:1-5). God considers eating the unclean foods an abomination (Isaiah 65:4) and in the future will destroy all who eat unclean meat such as pig and mice (Isaiah 66:15-17)

A few days ago you declared the Apostle Paul a false prophet and now you have declared Peter a false prophet.

You do realize that Paul was being a good Torah observant Jew when he was persecuting the early Church and while he held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.

Was Stephen also a false prophet who deserved to be stoned?

Does your Bible contain a New Testament or are you a Jew here posing as a Christian?



.

 

[Travis93]

Mark 7:14-20
And he called the people to him again, and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: 15 there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him.” 17 And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. rsv​

Read the context, he's talking about eating with unwashed hands, which is a man made law not found in the Bible:
Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Matthew 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Mark 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mark 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

"Thus he declared all foods clean" is a later addition to the text by someone who failed to notice the context, it's not something Jesus said. Otherwise Peter wouldn't still be keeping kosher even after Jesus died.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Besides, Jesus later judged people for eating food offered to idols.
Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And James forbid eating blood and strangled meat:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

It's obvious you can be defiled by what you eat, Jesus wasn't revoking any law of God. He's be a false prophet if he did (Deuteronomy 13:1-5).

 

[Travis93]

A few days ago you declared the Apostle Paul a false prophet and now you have declared Peter a false prophet.

You do realize that Paul was being a good Torah observant Jew when he was persecuting the early Church and while he held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.

Was Stephen also a false prophet who deserved to be stoned?

Does your Bible contain a New Testament or are you a Jew here posing as a Christian?



.

I don't think Peter declared the foods clean though, notice he still refused to eat the unclean meat all three times. He knew God would never change his law, and realized it was just symbolic of God showing him gentiles could be clean.
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
This is not anywhere in the law of Moses, Peter was still under the influence of all the oral laws he grew up with. Here's what the real law says:
Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
This was Peter's interpretation of the vision:
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

My point is that by interpreting the apostles to oppose the law you make them out to be false prophets, if read in context of supporting the law they are just fine. As far as Stephen, he never opposed the law either:

Acts 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

The Pharisees hated Jesus and the apostles for speaking against their man made traditions that they considered on par with the law of Moses, not for speaking against the real law.