If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[1John2:4]

Was Abraham led out of Egypt by God?
12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

What reason would Abraham have kept the feast days given only to Israel?

Why would Abraham have reason to observe Passover?


You absolutely do not know what you are talking about.


Amen!

Don't drop the mic yet Bob

Genesis 26:4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” What laws were these Bob?

The Sabbath was instituted at creation. In Exodus 20 the commandments were written on stone and given to Israel, yet in Exodus 16 they were commanded to gather manna for the Sabbath.

Exodus 16:22 And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. The law was not given yet, what law were they keeping?

Exodus 20:9“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I believe the times and the seasons or His designated days were assigned at creation and were built upon over time. Passover is the same day our savior was hung on the cross, Pentecost is the same day as Shavuot. The ninth of Tisha B' av, all of the stuff built upon that day. Those are all days that I am aware of that God built upon His established days, he probably has much more than just those I believe God instituted all of these days at creation and He layers significance on them.

Of course Abraham did not keep the Passover feast as it was relevant to the exodus, I get that, it would be like saying the Ancient Israelites kept the Passover in order to honor the Messiah, however it happened on the same day. I believe they were already honoring the day of feast of Unleavened Bread because of Genesis 18 & 19

Genesis 18 Then the Lord appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant. Note: this happened right after God made a covenant with Abraham and his house.

Genesis 19:3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

Exodus 5:1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel: ‘Let My people go, that they may hold a feast to Me in the wilderness.’” What feast was this? This is before Passover Bob.

Exodus 12:16 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and on the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation for you. No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you. 17 So you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought your armies out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an everlasting ordinance. 18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello all.

There is a serious problem with many posts that have been submitted so far, regarding these laws, statutes, and ordinances.

God made the covenant with Abraham and his descendants, God did not enact this covenant with anyone else. Therefore the ritual of circumcision was in force only for the descendants of Abraham. Anyone who claims that they belong to this covenant that God made with Abraham, would need to be able to prove that they are a direct descendant of Abraham.
Any legislation given to Abraham applied only to Abraham and his descendants.

Genesis 17
10 This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.

You must be a direct descendant of Abraham in order to belong to this covenant, and the act of circumcision is mandatory for these descendants. Then the text further elaborates a second condition of membership to this covenant with Abraham.

Genesis 17
21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.

There we have in plain view for everyone, the exact criteria for membership to this covenant, you must also be a descendant of Issac. If you are a descendant of Ishmael or a descendant of any other person other than Issac, you
have been excluded from membership to the original covenant God enacted with Abraham. Any debate regarding the eligibility of membership to the covenant God made with Abraham by any Gentile is invalid.

That is why the New Testament so often mentions the Jews making the valid claim, that they are descendants of
Abraham. The Jews were the circumcised descendants of Issac, and so was Jesus, they even had the written
genealogy to prove this lineage. Therefore circumcision was compulsory, and so were the laws and statutes for
these descendants of Issac.

Therefore it then follows, that Gentiles or non descendants of Issac will not be required to be circumcised. Does
the New Testament verify that Gentiles are not required to be circumcised, well it certainly does. Gentiles are not circumcised because they are not direct descendants of Abraham, fact. Further on this point, since Gentiles were
excluded from the covenant that God made with Abraham, which the text states very clearly. Does this then mean
that these Gentiles, are also not under the laws and statutes given to Abraham? There is no room for any debate
here, the Gentiles were definitely excluded from the covenant God made with Abraham and all its legal requirements.

There were exceptions made to Gentiles that were enslaved by the descendants of Abraham, they could be circumcised. Anyone else of Gentile lineage who resided in the territory of the Israel, these were also eligible to be circumcised
if they consented. Everyone else was excluded from this covenant that God established with Abraham which the New Testament emphasizes so strongly. Hence, when Gentiles were converted in the New Testament by the Holy Spirit,
it was such a shock to the Jews. So obviously it was not long before the debate erupted over the covenants with both Abraham and Moses. The million dollar question to be debated, was the mandatory legal requirements that would
need to be observed by these Gentile converts (Acts 15).

Since circumcision was void for the Gentile converts, it is not difficult to understand that the legislation also will be void. The scripture never separates circumcision from the legislation, circumcision is the law itself. You cannot have the law without being circumcised, omit one and you omit all of the attached legislation.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That's not what the Bible says to me and other believers who have been born again in Christ Jesus, immersed in His Name, and sharing His Life TODAY and living IN UNION with HIM TODAY on earth as the assembly of believers did in the NT.

 

[Bob S]

Don't drop the mic yet Bob

You are trying to tell us Abraham had all the laws that Israel had, so please address the questions I asked you instead of the sameo sameo. I have heard the same argument from you for weeks. It is time for you to step up to the plate and play the game.
1. Was Abraham led out of Egypt by God?

2. What reason would Abraham have to keep the feast days given only to Israel hundreds of years later?

3. Why would Abraham have reason to observe Passover?

 

[1John2:4]

Therefore the ritual of circumcision was in force only for the descendants of Abraham. Anyone who claims that they belong to this covenant that God made with Abraham, would need to be able to prove that they are a direct descendant of Abraham.

Genisis 13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

 

[W2L]

Genisis 13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Good luck with that.

 

[1John2:4]

You are trying to tell us Abraham had all the laws that Israel had, so please address the questions I asked you instead of the sameo sameo. I have heard the same argument from you for weeks. It is time for you to step up to the plate and play the game.
1. Was Abraham led out of Egypt by God?

2. What reason would Abraham have to keep the feast days given only to Israel hundreds of years later?

3. Why would Abraham have reason to observe Passover?

Are you being serious Bob I did answer your question did you not read my post?

I don't understand why you have to be so rude to everyone. I thought you were all about love? Yet you bite and devour anyone who answers your questions. We are all brothers and sisters in Messiah on this forum and we need to treat each other as such. We all love God and are zealous for His word even if we disagree we can be respectful to each other .

 

[1John2:4]

Good luck with that.

What do you think he meant by bought with a price we get to be a part of the family

 

[W2L]

Are you being serious Bob I did answer your question did you not read my post?

I don't understand why you have to be so rude to everyone. I thought you were all about love? Yet you bite and devour anyone who answers your questions. We are all brothers and sisters in Messiah on this forum and we need to treat each other as such. We all love God and are zealous for His word even if we disagree we can be respectful to each other .

I don't know if you answered it or not, but Bob didn't seem rude or devouring.

 

[W2L]

What do you think he meant by bought with a price we get to be a part of the family

Is that supposed to be a logical argument for circumcision? Why not stop hiding behind that shadow you love, and just admit that you don't follow the words of Paul.

 

[1John2:4]

I don't know if you answered it or not, but Bob didn't seem rude or devouring.

That is very nice of you to stick up for Bob.
I did not think this was very nice "instead of the sameo sameo. I haveheard the same argument from you for weeks. It is time for you to step up to the plate and play the game. "

 

[W2L]

That is very nice of you to stick up for Bob.
I did not think this was very nice "instead of the sameo sameo. I haveheard the same argument from you for weeks. It is time for you to step up to the plate and play the game. "

Well, I find your arguments a little weak too. No offence.

 

[1John2:4]

Well, I find your arguments a little weak too. No offence.

Well that is not very nice, I thought you grace people were all about love? You still have not answered my question about Matthew 5. I'm waiting, maybe your house of cards is falling down

 

[W2L]

Well that is not very nice, I thought you grace people were all about love? You still have not answered my question about Matthew 5. I'm waiting, maybe your house of cards is falling down

I don't know what question you refer, and I'm not sure I want to ask. I'm not being mean, although I could use a little more gentleness I suppose, but you wore me out, sorry.

 

[1John2:4]

I don't know what question you refer, and I'm not sure I want to ask. I'm not being mean, although I could use a little more gentleness I suppose, but you wore me out, sorry.

I think it's on another post. Nevermind, I'm going to bed

 

[klutedavid]

Well that is not very nice, I thought you grace people were all about love? You still have not answered my question about Matthew 5. I'm waiting, maybe your house of cards is falling down

Hello John.

To save me searching through a thousand posts could you repeat the question for me.

 

[1John2:4]

Hello John.

To save me searching through a thousand posts could you repeat the question for me.

It wasn't for you friend, sorry if I confused you

 

[BobRyan]

Everyone seems to agree in this post - that Jesus is our judge.

Exactly, and that's true of you as well.

1 John 5
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

not all Christians will choose to be at war against the teaching of Christ as Paul points out in Romans 8:4-9[/QUOTE]

 

[Bob S]

Are you being serious Bob I did answer your question did you not read my post?

Your answer was for the most part the following:
Genesis 26:4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

There you were telling us that Abraham was observing all the rules given to Israel. Then you went on to tell us of course Abraham didn't observe Passover and a bunch of other information not relevant to the discussion.

What laws were these Bob?

Well, we certainly know that they were not Torah given only to Israel Deut 5:2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

I don't understand why you have to be so rude to everyone.

I am not fooling around when I make a comment or ask questions. You beat around the bush trying to make us believe you have all the answers and then when I call you out you tell me I am rude. I am not here to play games friend.

I thought you were all about love?

My comments to you do not in any way diminish my love for you or anyone else I post with. I apologize if you think I don't care about you. I really would hope that you would wake up and not write excuses or more things that do not answer the question or add to the dialogue. In this conversation Moses even stated that the covenant with Israel was not with the ancestors as I quoted above.

Yet you bite and devour anyone who answers your questions.

Again, the problem is that you don't answer our questions. You keep reiterating the same excuses.

We are all brothers and sisters in Messiah on this forum and we need to treat each other as such.

Great, then don't tell me I bite and devour anyone who answers my questions. If you give us real answers we would not get upset with you. If you don't have any idea what the answer to our questions just tell us. Half answers or excuses do not count.

We all love God and are zealous for His word even if we disagree we can be respectful to each other .

I find that when some of you old covenant followers get backed into a corner and cannot really answer our questions then the attack mode starts.

An example of your "answer":

Exodus 5:1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel: ‘Let My people go, that they may hold a feast to Me in the wilderness.’” What feast was this? This is before Passover Bob.

You tell me because I don't have any idea and to tell you the truth I don't believe you can answer the question you posed.

 

[Bob S]

W2L wrote:

Well, I find your arguments a little weak too. No offence.

Well that is not very nice, I thought you grace people were all about love? You still have not answered my question about Matthew 5. I'm waiting, maybe your house of cards is falling down

The person is telling you what he believes to be true. Instead of chastising him for telling you what he thinks, maybe you should take what he wrote to heart. You judge him on the basis that he is not practicing love because he told you that your answers are weak? Attack mode.... OY!