If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Sophrosyne]

Can we quote you on that - as our authority on the point?

Nope... but you can explain to me how one can see the sun when it doesn't stop raining for a week.

 

[Bob S]

until they read Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

And ask themselves "First commandment where??"


AND Then they read Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 where even GENTILES are attending "Sabbath after Sabbath" Gospel sermons - such that in Acts 15 this "Everybody is in church on Sabbath" idea is mentioned by James as part of the "solution" to the problem of circumcision for gentiles.

Acts 15
21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

And they ask themselves "how does that attendance by all Christians every Sabbath - solve the Acts 15 question?"

=====================================

Not everyone will allow themselves to ask or answer those two questions -- of course.



still can't answer those two questions??
or wont answer them - ?

Bob S wrote: Well in the mean time, the unbiased objective readers are free to read the two questions above -- and answer them.

Why isn't Jesus statement in Matt 5 about an eye for an eye the key verse for Christians having to keep Torah law?
Afraid to answer or ever comment on the next sentence after the comment of mine you quoted. Seems kinda sneaky to me, but since you are part of the clan that does the same thing I will consider the source. Concerning Eph 6:2, why would i want entertain a question that is a dead end concerning whether the old covenant Israelite only Sabbath that is history is relevant? The ball is in your court my friend. Should we be keeping the Torah because Jesus mentioned the command for an eye for an eye? Are you afraid that with that question I have nullified your continuous poorly thought out question.

 

[BobRyan]

Jan001 said: ↑
I think most people who claim to be Christians know that the OT Sabbath is irrelevant for NT Christians.

until they read Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

And ask themselves "First commandment where??"


AND Then they read Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 where even GENTILES are attending "Sabbath after Sabbath" Gospel sermons - such that in Acts 15 this "Everybody is in church on Sabbath" idea is mentioned by James as part of the "solution" to the problem of circumcision for gentiles.

Acts 15
21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

And they ask themselves "how does that attendance by all Christians every Sabbath - solve the Acts 15 question?"

=====================================

Not everyone will allow themselves to ask or answer those two questions -- of course.

Oh yes, he uses Eph 6 and some other Adventist "proof texts". Eph 6:2 concerning how children relate to parents is supposed to be a key verse to convince Christians

still can't answer those two questions??
or wont answer them - ?

Well in the mean time, the unbiased objective readers are free to read the two questions above -- and answer them.

Why isn't Jesus statement in Matt 5 about an eye for an eye the key verse for Christians having to keep Torah law?

That is a reference to the civil law - and even the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that the Civil laws under the OT theocracy ended when that theocracy ended. A Bible detail so incredibly obvious that even Sunday keeping scholars "get the point".

And what is more - in Matt 5 - Christ points to a moral obligation that goes far beyond the mere civil law.

Concerning Eph 6:2, why would i want entertain a question that is a dead end

If you had an answer you would have given it just then.
The ball is in your court my friend.

Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Deut 7:5 "Love God with all your heart"

Quoted in the NT - as if the OT still had value as "Scripture"
Quoted in the NT - as if the writings of Moses - STILL had value for NT saints.

"For HE WHO SAID" do not commit adultery - ALSO SAID "do not murder" James 2 it is based on God - who SAID.

And that is what 2Peter 1:19-21 says of all of the OT "men of old moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from GOD"

 

[Bob S]

You still cannot deny that you cannot prove Adam and Eve became Sabbath keepers or that there is any indication of anyone ever observing the Sabbath until just before Sinai. For three weeks during the escape out of Egypt the Israelites marched to stay ahead of their Egyptian pursuers. If the Sabbath had been instilled at the day God rested why didn't God stop them the first week out of captivity and re instill the day? After all it was the commandment Ellen said had a "halo" around it. The Israelites couldn't break moral laws, but they sure did break the ritual Sabbath command by marching around Jericho eight days in a row. that was commanded by God. The priests prepared animals for sacrifice on Sabbath. Jesus broke the Sabbath: Jn 5:18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. The priests broke the Sabbath when they had to circumcise on that day.

Sabbath was an Israelite ritual that was temporary until the Cross when all the law was abrogated and replaced by God's (Jesus') law of love. Simple isn't it.

 

[BobRyan]

You still cannot deny that you cannot prove Adam and Eve became Sabbath keepers .

Well they were not Sabbath breakers - and Ex 20:11 says Sabbath begins with Gen 2:1-3. They did not sin until Gen 3 eating of the forbidden tree. "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

"Sabbath was MADE for mankind - not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" that is days 6 and 7 of creation week.

This is not a case of partisan acceptance of Bible fact - but rather bipartisan because the majority of even pro-Sunday scholarship sees this same Bible detail without having to block it to protect a given previous bias. The idea that Spurgeon, Mattew Henry, the "Westminster Confession of Faith" authors - were all followers of Ellen White as if THIS is the reason that they admit to these obvious Bible details - and simply that the read the Bible and noticed them .. .simply does not fly with most Christians.

Trying to cast every difference as one between you and Ellen White - is a huge mistake.

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath was an Israelite ritual

Jews are also part of the same "mankind" as all humans. "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27.

Also notice that the NEW Covenant is only made with "the House of Israel and the house of Judah" Hebrews 8:6-10.

And that is where a lot of us here on this board claim to be.

 

[Bob S]

Well they were not Sabbath breakers - and Ex 20:11 says Sabbath begins with Gen 2:1-3. They did not sin until Gen 3 eating of the forbidden tree. "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

"Sabbath was MADE for mankind - not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" that is days 6 and 7 of creation week.

This is not a case of partisan acceptance of Bible fact - but rather bipartisan because the majority of even pro-Sunday scholarship sees this same Bible detail without having to block it to protect a given previous bias. The idea that Spurgeon, Mattew Henry, the "Westminster Confession of Faith" authors - were all followers of Ellen White as if THIS is the reason that they admit to these obvious Bible details - and simply that the read the Bible and noticed them .. .simply does not fly with most Christians.

Trying to cast every difference as one between you and Ellen White - is a huge mistake.

I am not a Sabbath breaker either for where there is no law there is no sin.

All the Scripture you quoted I have no problem with. What I do have problem with is fact is that you will not recognize that it all ended at the Cross. A new covenant has replaced the old one. We worship the Creator Jesus. We remember His death for us and His resurrection. He is our mediator setting at the right hand of God.

I really do not comprehend your thoughts on Spurgeon etc and Ellen, whatever. I take my cue from scripture and not theologians. I would think you would shun those from babylon, since your prophet calls us the unclean blah, blah blah.

 

[disciple1]

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.



By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.

How many hours a day and for how many years have you studied the bible before I respond.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

 

[BobRyan]

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.

By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.

Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.

How many hours a day and for how many years have you studied the bible before I respond.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

Did you have a point??

 

[BobRyan]

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
"This is the covenant I will make... I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart" Heb 8:6-10

I am not a Sabbath breaker either for where there is no law there is no sin.

"These things I write to you that you SIN not" 1 John 2:1
"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the SAINTs KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14::12


All the Scripture I quoted I have no problem with. What I do have problem with is fact is that some will not recognize that all of these are statements continue to be applicable AFTER the Cross. Even the NEW Covenant. AND that at the cross God nailed our "certificate of debt" to the cross (NASB - Col 2) not His WORD nailed to the cross.

See Mark 7:6-13 for the method of "sola scriptura" used by Christ to judge doctrine and tradition raised up against the Word of God.

I really do not comprehend your thoughts on Spurgeon etc and Ellen, whatever.

Each time you spin a position that Spurgeon held AS IF it can only be coming from Ellen White - I find your logic "illusive".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[disciple1]

Did you have a point??

Yes most people read the bible if at all like it's a book written by men easy to understand, they don't see it like it is a book written by God maybe not possible to understand in a life time of study.

Malachi chapter 2
6 True instruction was in his mouth and nothing false was found on his lips. He walked with me in peace and uprightness, and turned many from sin.
7 “For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth. 8 But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi,” says the Lord Almighty. 9 “So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law.”

 

[BobRyan]

Good point - thanks for sharing that.

 

[Jan001]

Great post Jan. Why would Jesus give up the throne in Heaven to come to Earth, endure all that He did, die for our sins and then put us right back into the same covenant that his special people couldn't overcome? OY!

SDAs' prophet tells the flock that they must stand before the throne in the last days without Jesus. In other words, they have to have attain a perfect character. This is ludicrous. If man can become perfect without the shed blood covering us, Jesus came for naught. Did you realize that Adventists are the ones that are holding up the second coming of the Lord. Yep, they have to attain perfection before Jesus will return. I guess it is our job to help them to attain this perfection thing because it has been 180 years since their launching and no one yet has come up to the plate.

Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated.

About perfection:

Revelation 3:2
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. nkjv

James 1:4
But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. nkjv

Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. nkjv​

Perfection is what I strive for, but I can't picture myself actually becoming perfect before I die. As soon as I think I've improved a little in one area of my life, God points out to me something else that I need to work on.

 

[Jan001]

until they read

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

And ask themselves "First commandment where??"

Ephesians 6:1-3
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth. nkjv​

Paul is commenting on one of the Ten Commandments that Moses gave to the Israelites. But, Paul is also simply repeating what is universal natural law for all times and all peoples. It is true that this commandment is the first written commandment with a promise that was given to the Israelites.

But before Moses gave this specific written commandment to the Israelites, it was already in force in the world. Here is an example of it with Noah and Ham which occurred a long time before Moses existed.

Genesis 9:21-25
Then he [Noah] drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness.
24 So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. 25 Then he said:
“Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”
​

Ham's descendants were punished because Ham did not honor his father. There was no written commandment for Ham and yet he was punished for disobeying it. Universal natural laws are always valid for all peoples at all times.

​

AND Then they read Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 where even GENTILES are attending "Sabbath after Sabbath" Gospel sermons - such that in Acts 15 this "Everybody is in church on Sabbath" idea is mentioned by James as part of the "solution" to the problem of circumcision for gentiles.

The Jewish Christians attended the synagogues on the Sabbath to preach Christianity to the unconverted Jews. They did this because that is where they knew they'd find a great number of Jews to preach to at a specific time and place. At first, the Christians were tolerated as a Jewish sect, but later they were kicked out of the synagogues completely and then persecuted and killed.

Acts 15
21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

And they ask themselves "how does that attendance by all Christians every Sabbath - solve the Acts 15 question?"

Yes, the unconverted Jews still do preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath. These unconverted Jews just don't understand that He [Jesus Christ, Messiah] already came to earth and so they are still preaching that He is still to come.

 

[BobRyan]

In Heb 11 - is the Jews of pre-christian OT that are the models for the NT saints.
In Heb 8:6-10 the New Covenant is with the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" to which all the saints who are under the NEW Covenant - belong.
In Acts 13 - is Paul preaching to both Jews and Gentiles - each Sabbath in the Synagogue. Same for Acts 17 and 18.

 

[BobRyan]

I think most people who claim to be Christians know that the OT Sabbath is irrelevant for NT Christians.

until they read

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

And ask themselves "First commandment where??"

Paul is commenting on one of the Ten Commandments that Moses gave to the Israelites. But, Paul is also simply repeating what is universal natural law

Paul does not argue the point "For this is natural law" -- as your seem to prefer that he do.

Rather his argument for the validity and continued authority of the 5th commandment is that it is the "FIRST commandment in the TEN Commandments with a promise".

A point that is -- pointless for Paul -- if he were actually arguing "And of course the TEN Commandments mean nothing to us Christians today after the cross".

A huge problem for those opposed to God's TEN Commandments.

for all times and all peoples. It is true that this commandment is the first written commandment with a promise that was given to the Israelites.

No that is not true at all. This is not the first command in the 5 books of Moses with a promise.

I think we all know that.

 

[Jan001]

Not true at all -

Ex 20:11 points to it existing in Genesis 2:1-3 a point that D.L. Moody admits, and the Westminster Confession of Faith admits and the Baptist Confession of Faith admits - and even the Catholic church admits that the Sabbath Commandment is for mankind as one of the TEN Commandments - the unchangable LAW of God.

A point Christ also affirms about the LAW of God in Mark 7:6-13 when he condemns man-made traditions that try to edit/downsize/change that law..

No, the Sabbath Commandment for rest is not valid for Catholics, but the Sunday Commandment for rest is valid for Catholics.

The early Christian Catholic Sunday rest commandment and its breaking of the bread (sharing communion) was commanded by Jesus to His apostles.

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. nkjv
​

Catholic Ten Commandments

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10.You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

 

[Jan001]

No that is not true at all. This is not the first command in the 5 books of Moses with a promise.

I think we all know that.

I said it was the first WRITTEN commandment with a promise. It was written by God on stone tablets.

 

[BobRyan]

I think most people who claim to be Christians know that the OT Sabbath is irrelevant for NT Christians.

until they read

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

And ask themselves "First commandment where??"

I said it was the first WRITTEN commandment with a promise. It was written by God on stone tablets.

Paul does not merely say "FIRST written on stone but now we ignore that stone and look for something else" as you seem to much prefer to have written in Eph 6.

Rather his argument for the validity and continued authority of the 5th commandment is that it is the "FIRST commandment in the TEN Commandments with a promise".

A point that is -- pointless for Paul -- if he were actually arguing "And of course the TEN Commandments now mean nothing to us Christians today after the cross".

The stone tablets - had the TEN Commandments. "And nothing more".
The phrase I don't see in your post.

Deut 5
22 ""These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stoneand gave them to me.

Ex 34:28
So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. [ Literally Ten Words]

Deuteronomy 4:13
"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4
"He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me.

 

[BobRyan]

No, the Sabbath Commandment for rest is not valid for Catholics, but the Sunday Commandment for rest is valid for Catholics.

I think you need to read this -

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68990737, member: 235244"]notice the "details" in their claim - and even Bob S does not attempt to prove them wrong

==============================
Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

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Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

1. To say that the 7th day has lost all of its solemnity - deleted by man made tradition. ... is that a "Change" - in legal terms to that command?

2. To say that the 7th day has its solemnity TRANSFERRED to another - day such that the 7th day no longer has that solemnity - rather some other day has it. Is that a "CHANGE" to the commandment? Or does it remain as solemn, binding, obligatory as ever when it loses all of its solemnity by having it transferred to another day!



I am not at all convinced that we are as far apart on that particular point as you seem to claim.

The early Christian Catholic Sunday rest commandment and its breaking of the bread (sharing communion) was commanded by Jesus to His apostles.

Acts 20:7
Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. nkjv

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There is no command by Jesus or anyone else in Acts 20 to meet every week-day-1 (notice Luke does not call it "Lord's Day" and does not call week-day-1 "Sabbath" - AND there is no command there at all to meet every week-day-1 for worship)

Details matter.

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Catholic Ten Commandments

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10.You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

Is it your claim that "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" is the SAME thing as "Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day" -- or is it your claim that Catholics CHANGED that commandment to say something else?