If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[BobRyan]

Why did Christ distinguish between His commandments and the ten commandments? (try answering the question)

In your question - you "quote you"

In Matt 5 Christ always magnifies the Ten Commandments - never downsizes never sets aside never diminishes even one of them.

So then -- why is that?

Heb 8:6-10 says Christ's commandments ARE the TEN Commandments - because Christ was speaking at Sinai. ... as it turns out.

No wonder Paul affirms that unit of ten.


In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

 

[Jan001]

​

Thank you for affirming that works matter to all people. They certainly don't matter to God, who knows the heart.

Of course, it matters to God. God is the judge of all people.

A person is known to be faithful to God or unfaithful to God by his fruits/deeds/works.

Matthew 7:15-27
5 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” niv​

Every person who does not produce good fruits/works/deeds and does not repent before death is thrown into the fire of hell.

Every person who produces evil fruits/works/deeds and does not repent before death is thrown into the fire of hell.

 

[Cribstyl]

@BobRyan......
In my opinion your perspective is not according to the scriptures. First you twisted John 14:5 to be about the 10 commandments. John 14 is talking about the commands to "believe in me (Jesus), come to me, love me, keep my sayings....."
Secondly, you isolated 1cor 7:19 as if Paul is referring to the ten and not about commands in his letter to the Corinthians, about women issues.
SDA bait and switch........
Shame on you. Argue on........

 

[Jan001]

As Luke 10 points out - both Christ and the Jews were in agreement before the cross that Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" are the two unmovable foundations upon which not only God's Law but all of scripture - the Law AND the Prophets - are based. (See Matt 22 as well).

Yes, but these two commandments existed before the Law and the Prophets.

And, these two commandments still exist now even though the Law ended when Jesus died on the cross. The Law ended because Jesus fulfilled/finished it.

Non-Jews were never commanded to keep the Sabbath either before Jesus came to earth or after He came to earth.

Paul had many clashes in his own time with some troublesome Jewish converts to Christianity who kept telling the non-Jewish converts to Christianity that they must follow the Law even though Jesus Christ finished/ended the Law of Moses by His death on the cross.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law, so now there is righteousness for everyone who believes. mounce

Acts 15:24, 28-29
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—
​

The apostles did not ever command all non-Jewish converts to Christianity to become circumcised and to keep the law. Instead the apostles commanded the following:

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. nkjv
​

The apostles gave no commandment that the Sabbath laws be kept. They explained exactly what was necessary: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

Why do you insist that non-Jewish Christians keep the Sabbath laws even though the apostles did not command the non-Jewish Christians to keep the Sabbath laws?

​

 

[BobRyan]

@BobRyan......
In my opinion your perspective is not according to the scriptures. First you twisted John 14:5 to be about the 10 commandments.

This is where your quote of my post -- was.... missing entirely. If you have a post of mine quoting john 14:5 - that you are referring to - please let us know.

or did you mean that this the scriptures in this post are unscriptural?

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.



By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.

Nothing in there from John 14:5 so that may not be the one you are referencing at all.

Please specify.

in the mean time - as we saw in Heb 8:6-10

Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

 

[BobRyan]

As Luke 10 points out - both Christ and the Jews were in agreement before the cross that Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" are the two unmovable foundations upon which not only God's Law but all of scripture - the Law AND the Prophets - are based. (See Matt 22 as well).

Neither of them argued that scripture is deleted by those two commandments. Rather scripture is immovable - and rock solid on that foundation.

hence - Eph 6:2 "the FIRST commandment with a promise" affirms the same unit of TEN.

Yes, but these two commandments existed before the Law and the Prophets.

Did they exist before Adam?
Before the 7th day of creation week?

Did they exist before "Have no other God's before Me"??

Notice Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

"First commandment" where??

 

[Cribstyl]

This is where your quote of my post -- was.... missing entirely. If you have a post of mine quoting john 14:5 - that you are referring to - please let us know.

or did you mean that this the scriptures in this post are unscriptural?



Nothing in there from John 14:5 so that may not be the one you are referencing at all.

Please specify.

in the mean time - as we saw in Heb 8:6-10

Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Yes, (I stand corrected) you're embellishing on John 14:15. It doesn't reference the ten commandment and all is aware that Exodus 20:6 does.
Same game you're playing with Hebrews 8:6-10.
In Hebrews 8, Moses ministry of the law (old covenant) is compared to Jesus ministry of the New covenant. What part of "better covenant" and "better promises" means the same old covenant and same promises ( death for breaking them)? We get it.... who needs to understand scriptures in context when we can make something up.

 

[Bob S]

In your question - you "quote you"

In Matt 5 Christ always magnifies the Ten Commandments - never downsizes never sets aside never diminishes even one of them.

So then -- why is that?

Heb 8:6-10 says Christ's commandments ARE the TEN Commandments - because Christ was speaking at Sinai. ... as it turns out.

No wonder Paul affirms that unit of ten.


In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

Jesus was under the old covenant speaking to Jews under the old covenant, so of course He would refer to the law which contained the 10. You quote Matt 5 magnifying the 10 commandments. He magnified two of the moral laws found in the 10 and four of the laws found in the book of the law. What you wrote is more than deceiving. The morality issues found in the 10 commandments are but the tip of the iceberg reveling moral issues. Divorce, Oaths, eye for an eye, loving enemies, pride, envy, fraud, indecency, slander, arrogance and on and on we can go concerning morality. The fourth command, Sabbath was not a morality issue, it was a ritual issue. It was a ritual given to only the Israelites. Yes, it was a law, one that if the Israelite broke would result in death. It was part of the old covenant. Christians are not subject to the old covenant. Christians are subject to Jesus and Jesus said the law ended at Calvary. Matt 5: 18.

Now lets consider your use of Heb 8 as a "proof text".
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”c]">[c]


13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The writer is quoting Jeremiah 31 prophesy and is telling us that the old covenant is obsolete yet SDAs say no, no, no it is the same covenant only it is written on our hearts now. Yep, you quote verse 10 and tell us that my laws mean the 10 commandments. What about the other 603 commands of the old covenant? How did you go about making all of them accept the clean meat law and your unfounded tithing law void? Oy! my friend. You have a lot to think about teaching false doctrines to unsuspecting people.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, (I stand corrected) you're embellishing on John 14:15. It doesn't reference the ten commandment

Yes it does - Christ is speaking before the Cross and Heb 8:6-10 says that Christ is the one that gave us the TEN Commandments.

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus was under the old covenant speaking to Jews under the old covenant, so of course He would refer to the law which contained the 10.

Indeed the obvious point in John 14:15 is that Christ is referencing the same commandments known to his listeners before the cross - which cannot ever exclude God's Ten Commandments. Commandments that Christ Himself gave at Sinai according to Heb 8:6-10

You quote Matt 5 magnifying the 10 commandments.

Indeed "magnify" not "dismiss and downsize".

Yet someone recently claimed that Christ was deleting those commandments. Yet in Matt 5 Christ said "DO NOT" think that I came to delete the LAW of God.

He magnified two of the moral laws found in the 10

ALL of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law - the entire UNIT is referenced in Eph 6:2 -- irrefutable.

The fourth command, Sabbath was not a morality issue

You simply "quote you" to get authority for that bit of speculation. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

The Sabbath was made "FOR MANKIND" Mark 2:27 and God said "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Yes, it was a law, one that if the Israelite broke would result in death.

Romans 3 and Romans 7 tell us that it is the LAW that defines what sin is.

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

Jesus said the law ended at Calvary. Matt 5: 18.

Matt 5:18 is another great place to NOT FIND the statement "Jesus said the law ended at Calvary" - I think we all can see that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Now lets consider your use of Heb 8 as a "proof text".

Hebrews 8:

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The writer is quoting Jeremiah 31 prophesy

Indeed - SAME LAW -- different location. In 2Cor 3 under the unsaved condition it is external "on tablets of stone" but in Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8:6-10 under the saved condition that same LAW is "written on the mind and heart".

I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the term for LAW be understood by both Jeremiah and his readers as that which is God's LAW.

And of course Eph 6:2 and Romans 7 and James 2 reminds us that that LAW includes God's TEN Commandments.


Oy! my friend. You have a lot to think about teaching false doctrines to unsuspecting people. So says Christ in Matt 5

 

[Cribstyl]

Yes it does - Christ is speaking before the Cross and Heb 8:6-10 says that Christ is the one that gave us the TEN Commandments.

The point remains.

Here is evidence proving that your point is false
John 14 and context is NOT talking about any of the ten commandments. Jesus is clearly talking about His commandments to love Him, believing in Him (keeping and following His words).

Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Jhn 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Jhn 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

Your comments tends to sweep the facts under the rug.
1.In John 14, is Christ speaking before the cross? Yes. (insignificant point)
2. In John 14, is Christ speaking about the ten commandments? (No real evidence)
3. In Heb8:6-10, does any these texts "SAY" that Jesus gave the ten commandments? No, rather it prove that the covenants differ and also have different origins.

 

[BobRyan]

from page ONE of this thread -- noticed 'what commandments' Christ and Paul are talking about?

===============================================================
The TEN commandments are included in "THE LAW" the Moral Law of God that defines sin.

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Rom 2
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

=========================

They make the point -- that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God that defines what sin is.

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

"FIRST Commandment" -- in "what unit" of LAW??

 

[BobRyan]

Here is evidence proving that your point is false
John 14 and context is NOT talking about any of the ten commandments. Jesus is clearly talking about His commandments to love Him, believing in Him (keeping and following His words).

Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Jhn 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Jhn 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

Jesus' Commandments include the TEN Commandments spoken at Sinai by Jesus - according to Heb 8:6-10

In the Gospel of John - Jesus said all of HIS commandments are God Commandments and that He speaks none of His own.

 

[BobRyan]

from the OP post -- page ONE

No such thing as Jesus' commandments that are NOT God's Commandments or God's Commandments that are not Jesus'
============================

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[BobRyan]

"Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition is seen in Acts 17:11 AND in Mark 7:6-13 by Christ. WHAT Commandments does Jesus point to as "the test"?? -- the traditions of man or the actual WORD of God??

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


No wonder then - that those groups that DO affirm "sola scriptura" such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - ALSO affirm the Sabbath Commandment as binding on mankind in Eden and also to this very day.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.

By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.

I remain perplexed with you, Bob, as to why you feel the freedom to select only ten of God's commandments for obedience and think that, in doing so God is somehow delighted with your self-developed form of obedience.

 

[BobRyan]

God wrote the Ten Commandments - they were not "self-developed" by me.

In my statements I point to the fact that the TEN Commandments are included in the Moral Law of God that defines what sin is - you can see that in Eph 6:2 -- so also in Romans 7 and in James 2.

This is the easy part.

 

[Jan001]

Did they exist before Adam?
Before the 7th day of creation week?

Did they exist before "Have no other God's before Me"??

Notice Ex 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"

Yes, we are to love God and keep His commandments. But, some commandments were only for certain peoples at certain times. So, which commandments are relevant to NT Christians? The following two OT commandments are relevant to NT Christians.

Matthew 22:36-40
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” nkjv​

Yes, these two commandments did exist before Adam was created! They applied to the angels even before they applied to mankind.

Luke 10:17-19
Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. nkjv
​

Appearing in the form of a serpent, the demon Satan was waiting in the garden to tempt Adam and Eve to sin against God. It is obvious to me that the fallen angel also known as Satan had already broken the first and great commandment!

Matthew 22:36-37
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. nkjv​

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

"First commandment" where??

I do not oppose any of the commandments of God that are commanded for NT Christians in NT times.

The commandment, Honor your father and mother, was simply the first commandment of God that had a promise attached to it. No other commandment that was made before this commandment ever had a promise attached to it.

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” nkjv
​

So, what are examples of these two great commandments which do apply to NT Christians?

Romans 13:9-10
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. nkjv

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. nkjv

​

Which few of the many OT laws other than the great commandment and the second which is like it must the Greek converts to Christianity keep?

Acts 15:23-29
They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some [Jews] who went out from us have troubled you [Gentiles] with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. nkjv
​

Please note that the Sabbath laws are not commanded. What exactly is commanded?

​

1. Abstain from foods and other things offered to idols.
2. Abstain from drinking the blood of animals.
3. Abstain from eating things that have been strangled.
4. Abstain from participating in sexual immorality.

Galatians 5:1-3
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. nkjv

​

The Sabbath laws, dietary laws, circumcision laws, and many other OT Law of Moses' laws were a burden/yoke of bondage for the Israelites/Jews. These OT laws are definitely not commanded for NT Christians.

Why do you keep insisting that non-Jews keep the Sabbath laws when the apostles did not command them to keep the Sabbath laws?

​

 

[Jan001]

Mark 2:27
And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. nkjv
​

Scripture does not state that the Sabbath, as known to the Israelites/Jews, was made for all mankind. In context, Jesus is stating that the Sabbath was made for the Israelites/Jews to help them and not harm them. God's people in that era imitated God who rested on the Seventh Day after His creation of the physical universe.

Recorded as a historical fact in the early Christians' writings, Christians were commanded by Jesus to imitate His resurrection and rest on the First Day of the week. This is because Jesus rose from the dead on that day to give each of us a spiritual rebirth of the heart.