If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[ClothedInGrace]

Well obviously since you keep the commandments of God you are holier than I am. Since I don't keep the Sabbath, I guess I am hellbound. Poor me for thinking God could save me completely on his own, without my works and observance of the law!

 

[True Science]

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[ClothedInGrace]

Btw, I'm not against the law of God. I'm against those who try to use it as a means of righteousness.

 

[Gavriel Abir]

Have you thought through your reasoning? You could say the same about fornication. Is not the command not to fornicate obeyed by ceasing from touching forbidden flesh and keeping down the sinful eye of the flesh? The Sabbath also restricts doing one's own fleshly desires. What you are saying make no sense and sounds like semi-gnosticism.

We have to put to death the [sinful] deeds of the body through the Spirit.

"But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." (1 Corinthians 9:27 ESV)

"For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." (Romans 8:13 ESV)

Abstaining from every sin involves something to do with flesh. Flesh and physical matter are not sinful in and of themselves. The resurrection is a one of literal flesh bodies only they are glorified and immortal.

The Law is spiritual (Romans 7:14). The Law was given by the Spirit of God:

"And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God." (Exodus 31:18 ESV)

The same Spirit through which Jesus cast out the demons, UNCLEAN spirits:

"But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." (Luke 11:20 ESV)

"But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." (Matthew 12:28 ESV)

The Law is of the Spirit, not the flesh. It is a divine Law, not a fleshly Law. And this is why the Spirit leads man to obey it like was quoted already:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Well obviously since you keep the commandments of God you are holier than I am. Since I don't keep the Sabbath, I guess I am hellbound. Poor me for thinking God could save me completely on his own, without my works and observance of the law!

Father says HIS commandments are not grievous, yes?

 

[Gavriel Abir]

Btw, I'm not against the law of God. I'm against those who try to use it as a means of righteousness.

I am saved by grace I follow the WORD because I am saved

 

[Gavriel Abir]

I am saved by grace I follow the WORD because I am saved[/QUOTE
I never said that

SDAism really needs to be addressed too, but not as bad as the outright lawlessness. It is not even Ten Commandments literally. It is Ten Words/Declarations/Matters. Yes they are commandment but more laws branch off of them. You don't even have not even have homosexuality plainly addressed in them. If people had the extra books they would understand even more. Like even before Moses and Abraham with circumcision it was law for a brother to raise up seed for his dead brother by taking his widowed ex-wife as a wife if his brother died without a son for an heir. This is not Mosaic only. This was from the beginning. Not just for Israelites. And this is in Genesis for crying out loud. Then you have Jubilees which says Noah observed the fruit laws and the Festival of Weeks for the first time.

And Cain and Abel knew the difference between clean and unclean animals...

 

[True Science]

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[True Science]

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[True Science]

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[Gavriel Abir]

We actually have to obey the Law to be saved too. If we don't be perfect like the Father then we will be condemned. We will keep the Law because we have to and because we want to if we are truly saved and want to be saved in the future coming of Christ the second time.

Yep! Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Isa 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD. Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

 

[True Science]

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[ClothedInGrace]

We actually have to obey the Law to be saved too. If we don't be perfect like the Father then we will be condemned. We will keep the Law because we have to and because we want to if we are truly saved and want to be saved in the future coming of Christ the second time.

Wow. You think obedience to the law is a requirement of salvation? I don't even know if I can call you a Christian. How can you be when you pervert the gospel to such a degree as that?

 

[True Science]

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[True Science]

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[ClothedInGrace]

Did you know that every single Christian before Nicea and even after for a long time believed we have to obey God's requirements to be saved by God? Only Gnostics and stuff like that believed you didn't.

Yeah, God's requirement is faith, not law. If you think one must obey the law to be considered Christian, why not go the whole way and say they must become Jews?

 

[True Science]

Yeah, God's requirement is faith, not law. If you think one must obey the law to be considered Christian, why not go the whole way and say they must become Jews?

But they didn't define faith as merely trusting in a provision. They defined it as fidelity, faithfulness to God, of which works of righteousness and abstinence from unrighteousness were simultaneous, not separated, for faith without works is dead, and so also works without faith are dead. You need both and they go hand in hand. The body is dead without the spirit. It is impossible for the body to live without it. So also it is impossible for faith to be alive without the works along with it. And if you don't believe it go read them. They may have different on what precisely the requirements were but they all agreed obedience was necessary for salvation to be granted and they all agreed that it was more than just a mental assent and mere trust in some facts about justification through a provision.

 

[True Science]

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[ClothedInGrace]

But they didn't define faith as merely trusting in a provision. They defined it as fidelity, faithfulness to God, of which works of righteousness and abstinence from unrighteousness were simultaneous, not separated, for faith without works is dead, and so also works without faith are dead. You need both and they go hand in hand. The body is dead without the spirit. It is impossible for the body to live without it. So also it is impossible for faith to be alive without the works along with it. And if you don't believe it go read them. They may have different on what precisely the requirements were but they all agreed obedience was necessary for salvation to be granted and they all agreed that it was more than just a mental assent and mere trust in some facts about justification through a provision.

Listen, I agree that works follow salvation, but you are saying that in order to be saved one must work. There is a big difference in those two ideas.

Romans 4:5-8
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Everyone who comes to faith joins themselves to Israel and becomes an Israelite even if they are not bloodline but still physically gentile. But they do not have to become culturally a Jewish man and go ahead of God's Word. The Patriarchs before the Israelites more or less lived like Israel did when they got the Law. Read Genesis and the extra books like Enoch, Jubilees, Genesis Apocryphon, Life of Adam and Eve, and so on. Certain laws were added later but it was basically the same godly lifestyle required.

Where in the NT does it say gentiles join themselves to Israel and become Israelites? The Church and Israel are two different entities. Old and New, you can't mix the two. Both God's people, but two different covenants.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Where in the NT does it say gentiles join themselves to Israel and become Israelites? The Church and Israel are two different entities. Old and New, you can't mix the two. Both God's people, but two different covenants.

That's what the council in Jerusalem recorded in Acts 15 was all about, after all.