If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

BobRyan · Aug 31, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
"BABerean2 said: ↑
Bob Ryan,

Are you drawing a paycheck from any of the Seventh Day Adventist organizations."

Is this an Issue that needs to be identified? If so why.

Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure how I gave that impression.

Original Happy Camper · Aug 31, 2016

BobRyan said:
Careful - Dale is not very good at "questions"

I know left turns are his specialty.

Original Happy Camper · Aug 31, 2016

BobRyan said:
Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure how I gave that impression.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

We are all supposed to be priests so we should give that impression.

klutedavid · Aug 31, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
1 Thessalonians 4 King James Version (KJV)
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the wxxill of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

1 Thessalonians 4 New International Version (NIV)

3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;
4 that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable
5 not in passionate lust like the pagans who do not know God
6 and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister.
7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

I am assuming that you quoted from the NIV for this post. Why would you utilize a translation that deletes most of verse six and is based on the translation work of Westcott and Hort know followers of Darwin and the occult????

Hello HappyCamper.

Thanks for the reply.

You may have made a false assumption.

I always quote from the NASB.

If you really want to know what English word to employ in the translation
of the Greek G4202, then take your pick.

LSJ Gloss: πορνεία, fornication, prostitution
Dodson: πορνεία, fornication, whoredom
Strong's: πορνεία, harlotry, (including adultery and incest)
KJV Usage: fornication.

Strong's choice is the broader sexual term, 'harlotry', including adultery
and incest. Which is equivalent to the NASB usage of 'sexual immorality'.
The KJV usage is 'fornication', which may be too narrow a translation.

Either way HappyCamper, the text does not state 'adultery'.

Original Happy Camper · Aug 31, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello HappyCamper.

Thanks for the reply.

You may have made a false assumption.

I always quote from the NASB.
.

Sorry for the wrong assumption.
NASB;
The American Standard Version was a minor American revision of the English Revised Version of 1881. It became the foundation of several 20th century American versions, including the Revised Standard Version and the New American Standard Bible.
English Revised Version (1881-1895)
American Standard Version was an American edition. This version is a revision of the King James version made on the basis of Westcott and Hort 1881 and Tregelles 1857.

Why would you utilize a translation that is based on the translation work of Westcott and Hort know followers of Darwin and the occult???? http://bibleready.org/Westcott_and_Hort.html

BABerean2 · Sep 1, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
Back atcha
http://sdaforme.com/_blog/SDA_For_Me_Blog/post/5_Questions_for_Dale_Ratzlaff/

5 Questions for Dale Ratzlaff
Saturday, July 11, 2009
#1 If Christians in the NT kept Sunday, why is there no “buzz” about this in the book of Acts?
Paul and fellow apostles are accused of all kinds of anti-Jewish actions and teachings, but never once are they accused of doing away with the Sabbath.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

#2 If eternal torment is God’s punishment for sinners, and Jesus received that punishment on the cross, why is He not still suffering today?
John 3:16 says people without Christ will “perish”—not have eternal life in hell. According to 1 John 5:12, only those in Christ have eternal life—to spend anywhere, in heaven or in hell!

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

#3 Why do you condemn Adventism today for the mistaken things their pioneers did and taught, while letting the Protestant pioneers off the hook?
Luther taught horribly hateful things against the Jews that historians believe set the stage for the German Holocaust. The leading Reformers in Geneva killed Dr. Michael Servetus by burning him alive at the stake for heresy 27 October 1553—no Adventist leader has ever come close to doing that! Many Protestants murdered Anabaptists for their opposition to infant baptism. They also were co-participants in the infamous Thirty Years’ War of religion; SDA have engaged in religious disagreements, but nothing like that! Give us a break!

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

#4 If you believe that Jesus is your Sabbath so now you don’t have to keep the day holy, what do you say to somebody who says: “Jesus is my baptism—so now I don’t have to be baptized”?
Both are signs of entering Christ’s rest—click on the Sabbath tab to see more on this.

"Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. "

#5 How can you say that Adventist leaders are required to believe that Ellen G. White is an infallible authority over Scripture—or be quiet about it to save their careers?
People like Martin Weber have been teaching and write publicly and emphatically otherwise for nearly 30 years, getting their books published by the church and holding positions of denominational responsibility. Click on the Ellen White tab to see a sample of what Martin has been writing in official church publications since 1983.

.

klutedavid · Sep 1, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
Sorry for the wrong assumption.
NASB;
The American Standard Version was a minor American revision of the English Revised Version of 1881. It became the foundation of several 20th century American versions, including the Revised Standard Version and the New American Standard Bible.
English Revised Version (1881-1895)
American Standard Version was an American edition. This version is a revision of the King James version made on the basis of Westcott and Hort 1881 and Tregelles 1857.

Why would you utilize a translation that is based on the translation work of Westcott and Hort know followers of Darwin and the occult???? http://bibleready.org/Westcott_and_Hort.html

Hello HappyCamper.

I never tell anyone which translation to use and the reason is HappyCamper,
that every translation of the Koine Greek has errors. Biblical scholars prefer
the RSV, which is the version I should probably use.

Here is a simple explanation of the process of translating a Greek text.

Gather as much Greek text from the first three centuries as possible.

Define as accurately as possible the meaning and usage of every Greek
word. Then use that information to translate the Greek text into English.

New Testament texts are no different to any other Greek texts. They are
simple letters written in the language of the day.

If you wish HappyCamper I can show you some of the errors in the KJV,
every translation makes mistakes.

I refer to the Koine Greek rather frequently because our translations are
somewhat unreliable.

klutedavid · Sep 1, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
Sorry for the wrong assumption.
NASB;
The American Standard Version was a minor American revision of the English Revised Version of 1881. It became the foundation of several 20th century American versions, including the Revised Standard Version and the New American Standard Bible.
English Revised Version (1881-1895)
American Standard Version was an American edition. This version is a revision of the King James version made on the basis of Westcott and Hort 1881 and Tregelles 1857.

Why would you utilize a translation that is based on the translation work of Westcott and Hort know followers of Darwin and the occult???? http://bibleready.org/Westcott_and_Hort.html

Hello HappyCamper.

I read your link, http://bibleready.org/Westcott_and_Hort.html.

I tried to find out which organization runs this website, they do not identify themselves.

So I read some of the material on this site, here is what I read regarding translations.

See 'menu tab', under 'doctrines', then select 'judgement'.

I Corinthians 5:11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men (KJV)
Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men (NASB)
Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men (NIV)
Knowing, therefore, the fear of the Lord, we keep persuading men (NWT)

Firstly, the quotation is incorrect, the quotation should be 2 Corinthians 5:11.

Secondly, the KJV translates Strongs G5401 (phobos) in the following frequency:
fear (41x), terror (3x), miscellaneous (3x), through the entire New Testament.

For some unknown reason the translator of the KJV decided that 'terror' was the correct
translation of phobos in the verse above. Though the translator could have chosen 'fear'.

In fact, the probability that 'phobos' actually means 'terror' is very low.

Checking the scholar's Bible the RSV, we find that the RSV selected 'fear' for phobos.

BABerean2 · Sep 1, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello HappyCamper.

I read your link, http://bibleready.org/Westcott_and_Hort.html.

I tried to find out which organization runs this website, they do not identify themselves.

So I read some of the material on this site, here is what I read regarding translations.

See 'menu tab', under 'doctrines', then select 'judgement'.

I Corinthians 5:11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men (KJV)
Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men (NASB)
Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men (NIV)
Knowing, therefore, the fear of the Lord, we keep persuading men (NWT)

Firstly, the quotation is incorrect, the quotation should be 2 Corinthians 5:11.

Secondly, the KJV translates Strongs G5401 (phobos) in the following frequency:
fear (41x), terror (3x), miscellaneous (3x), through the entire New Testament.

For some unknown reason the translator of the KJV decided that 'terror' was the correct
translation of phobos in the verse above. Though the translator could have chosen 'fear'.

In fact, the probability that 'phobos' actually means 'terror' is very low.

Checking the scholar's Bible the RSV, we find that the RSV selected 'fear' for phobos.

The KJV translation of the following verse does not seem to fit the context of the passage.
If it is occurring in the New Heavens and New Earth where there is no weeping, how can people be dying?
I suspect it is a translation error or is using hyperbole.
Do you have any comments on this?
The question has come up several times on this forum.

Isaiah 65:20

(CJB) No more will babies die in infancy, no more will an old man die short of his days — he who dies at a hundred will be thought young, and at less than a hundred thought cursed.

(ESV) No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

(Geneva) There shall be no more there a childe of yeeres, nor an olde man that hath not filled his dayes: for he that shall be an hundreth yeeres old, shall dye as a yong man: but the sinner being an hundreth yeeres olde shall be accursed.

(GW) There will no longer be an infant who lives for only a few days or an old man who doesn't live a long life. Whoever lives to be a hundred years old will be thought of as young. Whoever dies before he is a hundred years old will be cursed as a sinner.

(LITV-TSP) There shall not still be an infant of days, or an old man that has not filled his days. For the youth shall die the son of a hundred years, but the sinner the son of a hundred years shall be accursed.

(KJV) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

(KJV+) There shall beH1961 noH3808 moreH5750 thenceH4480 H8033 an infantH5764 of days,H3117 nor an old manH2205 thatH834 hath notH3808 filledH4390 (H853) his days:H3117 forH3588 the childH5288 shall dieH4191 an hundredH3967 yearsH8141 old;H1121 but the sinnerH2398 being an hundredH3967 yearsH8141 oldH1121 shall be accursed.H7043

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello Bob.

If a person becomes a christian and that person has unbelieving parents.
It does not make much sense for that person to attempt to honor their
parents. The non Christian parents will constantly direct the believing
son or daughter, away from the Christ and not the towards Christ.

But it would make sense for them to honor their parents in the OT?

Your excuse in that case does not hold water - because honoring parents includes as Christ points out in Mark 7:6-13 taking care of them when they are aged. If you imagine to yourself that Christians whose parents are not Christian - allow their parents to perish in the streets in old age... you have gone to some wild extremes in your urgency to avoid the Word of God.

Notice that in Eph 6:2 Paul does not say "honor your father and mother AS LONG AS they are Christians". I think you can I both know that.

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2016

BABerean2 said:
Bob Ryan,

Are you drawing a paycheck from any of the Seventh Day Adventist organizations.

As a software engineer or working in housekeeping or in a hospital at some SDA institution? Or do you mean as a pastor or professor in one of our universities?

I am not getting paid by any SDA organization. But I am curious to know why this would matter when it comes to answering the points raised by the Bible on this topic.

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2016

Some would argue that people in the bible take Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" as Laws to be used to delete God's spoken Word in Ex 20 - the TEN Commandments.

Law spoken by God and written in stone - where we are then told in Deut 5 "And He added no more" -- .

Well that sort of guesswork will not hold up to the "Sola Scriptura" test -- and we all know it.

Most impressively - so also do many pro-sunday scholars know it.

They know that the Ten Commandments were not deleted by Lev 19:18 or Deut 6:5 in either the OT or the NT.

Nor is there a NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Eph 6:2 the text many might prefer to religiously avoid says --> "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise"

Question for the group: -- FIRST commandment WHERE??

first in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

We can all see this. So no debate at all so far.

klutedavid said:
Hello Bob.

The commandment, 'honor your father and mother', contains a promise.
The promise is for a long life on earth, this is not a commandment that
relates to salvation or eternal life.

Is Paul saying "pay no attention to the Commandment" in Eph 6:2?
Does he say "I don't want you to take God's name in vain because by obeying this commandment you will earn you way to heaven"???

Does he say "Honor your father and mother if you feel like it - but don't be thinking that obedience to the Word of God is some sort of sign or fruit of being a Christian"??

Does he say this is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise" as if the reader actually knew about the still-valid -- still-binding TEN Commandments?

One does not need to obey this
commandment to be saved.

For example Bob, if your parents are deceased,

If your parents have passed away - are you living in rebellion because you cannot personally speak with them???

Is this reference to the TEN Commandment unit in Eph 6 - and the fact that it still is valid - something you don't wish to discuss?

klutedavid said:
Hello Bob.
Your not under the commandment to not commit adultery.

Thanks for your imagination.

But imagination against the word of God... lofty though it may seam -- does not survive the Word of God.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Hint Lev 19:18 is in the OT.

klutedavid said:
You are under the law of Christ, to not commit sexual immorality.
These two commandments are different commandments.
Adultery is listed under the Old Covenant (Exodus 20).

Thanks for your imagination.

But imagination against the word of God... lofty though it may seam -- does not survive the Word of God.

Romans 13
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

in neither case do James or Paul argue it is "evil" to obey any command found in the OT.

John 6: "38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."
John 7:16 So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. "
John 12: 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

BABerean2 · Sep 1, 2016

BobRyan said:
But I am curious to know why this would matter when it comes to answering the points raised by the Bible on this topic.

Some of my most heated exchanges in the Eschatology section of this forum came from a person who had written books from the Dispensational point of view.

My posts had a tendency to expose the history of John Nelson Darby's doctrine.

Therefore, my viewpoint could reduce his book sales if most Christians came to understand the truth about modern Dispensational Theology.

Since the love of money is the root of evil, a paycheck does tend to color the perspective of some.

A pastor of any denomination whose is drawing a paycheck from that denomination is less likely to admit that there is a problem with the teachings of that denomination, in my humble opinion.

.

.

Original Happy Camper · Sep 1, 2016

BABerean2 said:
5 Questions for Dale Ratzlaff
Saturday, July 11, 2009
#1 If Christians in the NT kept Sunday, why is there no “buzz” about this in the book of Acts?
Paul and fellow apostles are accused of all kinds of anti-Jewish actions and teachings, but never once are they accused of doing away with the Sabbath.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

.

7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

No where in these versus does this say they were gathered together to worship, it says to break bread (a meal). Remember that the method of reckoning of time was from sunset to sunset. So they gathered together after sundown at the end of the Sabbath (7th day). Midnight on the first day of the week would be what we call midnight on Saturday night.

If as you contend that the first day of the week was a holy day in place of the 7th day Sabbath then Paul would be violating the 4th commandment by departing on the morrow by ship. Paul was in concert with the word of GOD not changing it.

38 Sorrowing most of all for the words which he spake, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him unto the ship.

His last visit with these new Christians.

Rev 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The last warning.

Original Happy Camper · Sep 1, 2016

BABerean2 said:
Some of my most heated exchanges in the Eschatology section of this forum came from a person who had written books from the Dispensational point of view.

My posts had a tendency to expose the history of John Nelson Darby's doctrine.

Therefore, my viewpoint could reduce his book sales if most Christians came to understand the truth about modern Dispensational Theology.

Since the love of money is the root of evil, a paycheck does tend to color the perspective of some.

A pastor of any denomination whose is drawing a paycheck from that denomination is less likely to admit that there is a problem with the teachings of that denomination, in my humble opinion.

.

.

Hort and Westcott fall into your statement "A pastor of any denomination whose is drawing a paycheck from that denomination is less likely to admit that there is a problem with the teachings of that denomination, in my humble opinion." as do all the scholars that you seem to think are immune to this bias in there translations of the Bible.

Original Happy Camper · Sep 1, 2016

BABerean2 said:
Since the love of money is the root of evil, a paycheck does tend to color the perspective of some.

A pastor of any denomination whose is drawing a paycheck from that denomination is less likely to admit that there is a problem with the teachings of that denomination, in my humble opinion.

.

.

And that is why the Biblical Sabbath is not presented as Bible truth in all Sunday keeping Churches. Follow the money.

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Travis93 · Sep 1, 2016

BABerean2 said:
The KJV translation of the following verse does not seem to fit the context of the passage.
If it is occurring in the New Heavens and New Earth where there is no weeping, how can people be dying?
I suspect it is a translation error or is using hyperbole.
Do you have any comments on this?
The question has come up several times on this forum.

Isaiah 65:20

(CJB) No more will babies die in infancy, no more will an old man die short of his days — he who dies at a hundred will be thought young, and at less than a hundred thought cursed.

(ESV) No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

(Geneva) There shall be no more there a childe of yeeres, nor an olde man that hath not filled his dayes: for he that shall be an hundreth yeeres old, shall dye as a yong man: but the sinner being an hundreth yeeres olde shall be accursed.

(GW) There will no longer be an infant who lives for only a few days or an old man who doesn't live a long life. Whoever lives to be a hundred years old will be thought of as young. Whoever dies before he is a hundred years old will be cursed as a sinner.

(LITV-TSP) There shall not still be an infant of days, or an old man that has not filled his days. For the youth shall die the son of a hundred years, but the sinner the son of a hundred years shall be accursed.

(KJV) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

(KJV+) There shall beH1961 noH3808 moreH5750 thenceH4480 H8033 an infantH5764 of days,H3117 nor an old manH2205 thatH834 hath notH3808 filledH4390 (H853) his days:H3117 forH3588 the childH5288 shall dieH4191 an hundredH3967 yearsH8141 old;H1121 but the sinnerH2398 being an hundredH3967 yearsH8141 oldH1121 shall be accursed.H7043

There will still be sinners in the age to come, just none allowed to live permanently in New Jerusalem where there is no more death or crying.
Revelations 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Revelation 21:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
These nations will be the ones that have extended, but not immortal, lives.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zechariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zechariah 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zechariah 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

As you can see here, if there's a punishment for not keeping the feast of tabernacles it means the free will to choose sin will remain for the nations around New Jerusalem. Those living in New Jerusalem will have immortal glorified bodies with the the law hardwired into them to keep it perfectly (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26, Ezekiel 11:20, 1 John 3:2), as it is written
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

BukiRob · Sep 1, 2016

Jan001 said:
I've told you many times, my Church does not keep the sabbath day. Our own Ten Commandments are for all mankind, not the Ten Commandments of the Israelites given to them in the desert.

We keep the Lord's day holy because Jesus taught His apostles to do this after He rose from the dead. This fact is written in the historical record of the early church. The Bible also records that the Christians met together to worship on the first day of the week. The Bible records, that on the first day of the week of every week, money was gathered from the people at these worship services for the support of the brethren elsewhere.

The commandments of the law/covenant of Jesus Christ are not like the Sabbath commandments of the law/covenant of Moses. Greek Christians did not keep the sabbath. God never commanded the Greeks/Gentiles to keep the sabbath.

The sabbath law was required under the Levitical priesthood of the Israelites because this sabbath law was a special sign that He gave specifically to them. This sign is not required under the Melchizedek priesthood of Jesus Christ.

Jesus' new covenant is not like the first covenant. In His new covenant there is no distinction between Jews and Greeks. His followers are all one Body in Christ Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek in Jesus' new covenant. Exodus 31:15-17, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11

Hebrews 8:9-10
“The days will come, says the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
for they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord.
10 This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.

Christ's new commandment/law of His new covenant is that we must love one another like He has loved us. If we call Him Lord, we must do what He tells us to do.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. rsv

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? rsv

There is absolutely no commandment recorded in the NT Bible for Christians to keep the sabbath of the Israelites/Jews. Our new covenant with God is not like the first covenant that God made with the Israelites in the desert. That covenant is no longer in force. It is no longer used. It is obsolete and it passed away almost 2000 years ago.

Hebrews 8:9a
“The days will come, says the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers...rsv

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. rsv

Commandments for Christians:

Romans 13:4-10
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law (of Jesus Christ). 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (of Jesus Christ). rsv

Love is the fulfilling of the law/new covenant of Jesus Christ. The old covenant was made obsolete about 2000 years ago.

I can think of nothing else to add to this topic.

Hmmm I was unaware that heaven and earth have passed away.... when did that happen?

BABerean2 · Sep 1, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
Rev 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The last warning.

How about those that claimed the door was shut and then it was opened again.

And those that claimed Jesus moved to another part of heaven on October 22, 1844.
I could not find that in my Bible either.

Do you take your own medicine?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

klutedavid · Sep 1, 2016

BABerean2 said:
The KJV translation of the following verse does not seem to fit the context of the passage.
If it is occurring in the New Heavens and New Earth where there is no weeping, how can people be dying?
I suspect it is a translation error or is using hyperbole.
Do you have any comments on this?
The question has come up several times on this forum.

Isaiah 65:20

(CJB) No more will babies die in infancy, no more will an old man die short of his days — he who dies at a hundred will be thought young, and at less than a hundred thought cursed.

(ESV) No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

(Geneva) There shall be no more there a childe of yeeres, nor an olde man that hath not filled his dayes: for he that shall be an hundreth yeeres old, shall dye as a yong man: but the sinner being an hundreth yeeres olde shall be accursed.

(GW) There will no longer be an infant who lives for only a few days or an old man who doesn't live a long life. Whoever lives to be a hundred years old will be thought of as young. Whoever dies before he is a hundred years old will be cursed as a sinner.

(LITV-TSP) There shall not still be an infant of days, or an old man that has not filled his days. For the youth shall die the son of a hundred years, but the sinner the son of a hundred years shall be accursed.

(KJV) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

(KJV+) There shall beH1961 noH3808 moreH5750 thenceH4480 H8033 an infantH5764 of days,H3117 nor an old manH2205 thatH834 hath notH3808 filledH4390 (H853) his days:H3117 forH3588 the childH5288 shall dieH4191 an hundredH3967 yearsH8141 old;H1121 but the sinnerH2398 being an hundredH3967 yearsH8141 oldH1121 shall be accursed.H7043

Hello Berean.

Anyone who is reading Isaiah 65, in a strict literal fashion will be struggling to
understand this chapter. The Isaiah text was written centuries before Jesus Christ
was born. Life in Israel was a very tough life, infant mortality was high. Child mortality
was also high, mothers died during child birth. Even walking out the front door in the
morning without having a look first, could mean walking into the jaws of a lion.

This was a very tough world to live in, and Isaiah's text is talking to an audience that
is also under the entire legal system given at Mt Sinai.

The book of Isaiah was not written to a Gentile audience, the book of Isaiah was
directly addressed to the inhabitants of Israel. Gentiles read the Isaiah text and struggle
from pillar to post in trying to understand it.

For example, people who eat ham are condemned in this chapter.

Isaiah 65
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's
flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels.

God does not send people to hell for eating ham, fact. This is the legal noise (Mt Sinai)
contained in this text, this text is not addressed to a Gentile audience.

The text also proclaims a youth will grow old and die at 100 years of age.

'for the young man shall die a hundred years old'

Once again Berean, the text is written in an era of short life expectancy, the
text is promising a much longer life in the future of the new earth. This is the
hyperbole so evident in many texts contained in the Old Testament.

Always read the text in a literal fashion, never get bogged down by the literal hyperbole.
The prophetic passages in Isaiah concerning the coming Messiah are letter
perfect. It is a crying shame that at times, the legal background noise and the
hyperbole, throw so many folk off the path.

If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

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