If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[klutedavid]

When Moses was on the Mountain GOD Gave him four sets of laws. The Royal Law GOD wrote with his own finger on two tables of stone.

The other three GOD spoke and Moses wrote them down.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

They are the Sanctuary Law, Dietary Law and the Civil law. All of these can be found in the old testament.

Jesus fulfilled the Sanctuary law, with his sacrifice on the cross for our sins.
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

The dietary law had nothing to do with the Sanctuary (ceremonial) Law.

The Royal, dietary and civil law can not be fulfilled only kept.
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jesus is perfect and cannot change.

Hello HappyCamper.

More clarification is necessary, you said.

When Moses was on the Mountain GOD Gave him four sets of laws.
The Royal Law, Sanctuary Law, Dietary Law, and Civil law.

I need you to more clearly define what you have been taught, what is this 'Royal law'?

 

[disciple1]

I disagree.
Why did Cain kill Able? if the Sanctuary Law was not in place at the beginning. Was the killing a sin if there was no Law.

For sin is the transgression of the Law.

Later, I am now going to worship the Creator on His Holy Sabbath Day.

Happy Sabbath.

If anyone try's to keep any law, their obligating themselves to keep every law, and if they don't they are judged by the law.

 

[Albion]

If anyone try's to keep any law, their obligating themselves to keep every law, and if they don't they are judged by the law.

I don't think that's correct. The Lord himself directed his followers to be mindful of the Commandments. If we fail to keep them perfectly, we will not be judged by them, thanks to his sacrifice...but they are still a standard of Godly living that we are to TRY to live by.

 

[klutedavid]

I don't think that's correct. The Lord himself directed his followers to be mindful of the Commandments. If we fail to keep them perfectly, we will not be judged by them, thanks to his sacrifice...but they are still a standard of Godly living that we are to TRY to live by.

Hello Albion.

You are inviting a strong reply from the advocates of the SDA theology, Albion.

I disagree with your proposition also, no one can obey the law and Israel proved
that to be the case.

 

[BABerean2]

When Moses was on the Mountain GOD Gave him four sets of laws. The Royal Law GOD wrote with his own finger on two tables of stone.

The other three GOD spoke and Moses wrote them down.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

They are the Sanctuary Law, Dietary Law and the Civil law. All of these can be found in the old testament.

Jesus fulfilled the Sanctuary law, with his sacrifice on the cross for our sins.
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

The dietary law had nothing to do with the Sanctuary (ceremonial) Law.

The Royal, dietary and civil law can not be fulfilled only kept.
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jesus is perfect and cannot change.

If you are going to keep the ten commandments, why did Christ have to die on a cross for your sins?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Christ did change for me.
He was perfect and without sin. However, He allowed God to place my sin upon Himself.
At that moment He did change to one who did bear sin.
He changed to me and God poured out His wrath on His own Son, for me.

The only manmade thing in heaven are the scars in His body.
He came into this rotten, sin-cursed world perfect, and left it bearing the scars that I deserve.

He could have prayed to the father and had thousands of angels to intercede for Him.
Nobody forced Him to lay down on that Cross. He volunteered.

Praise God and His Son who bought me with His Blood.

.

 

[disciple1]

I don't think that's correct. The Lord himself directed his followers to be mindful of the Commandments. If we fail to keep them perfectly, we will not be judged by them, thanks to his sacrifice...but they are still a standard of Godly living that we are to TRY to live by.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
So that must include all the law, if you try to obey.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello HappyCamper.

More clarification is necessary, you said.

I need you to more clearly define what you have been taught, what is this 'Royal law'?

James 2 King James Version (KJV)

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
(the last six commandments of the ten are how we are to love our neighbor, the first four are how we love GOD)
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[Albion]

Hello Albion.

You are inviting a strong reply from the advocates of the SDA theology, Albion.

I know that. However, there's no point in being here at all if we cannot discuss things openly (so long as it's civil). That's how I see it unless, of course, if this were the SDA forum. But it's not.

I disagree with your proposition also, no one can obey the law and Israel proved
that to be the case.

Oh now. At least I ask you to get what I said right. I didn't say that we are able to keep the Law (meaning at all times and perfectly). Nevertheless, it remains a standard of conduct for us. Not a Law, with all that that entails, but a standard.

We ought to do our best to not disrespect our parents, steal, murder, covet, worship idols, etc. I'm sure that you agree with me on that point.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

If you are going to keep the ten commandments, why did Christ have to die on a cross for your sins?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Christ did change for me.
He was perfect and without sin. However, He allowed God to place my sin upon Himself.
At that moment He did change to one who did bear sin.
He changed to me and God poured out His wrath on His own Son, for me.

The only manmade thing in heaven are the scars in His body.
He came into this rotten, sin-cursed world perfect, and left it bearing the scars that I deserve.

He could have prayed to the father and had thousands of angels to intercede for Him.
Nobody forced Him to lay down on that Cross. He volunteered.

Praise God and His Son who bought me with His Blood.

.

Because I am a sinner and cannot save myself, I have a Savior in the perfect Jesus Christ, I attempt to keep his commandments because he commanded me to.

Your versus Heb 7:12 is explained if you keep reading
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The change in the LAW was the Sanctuary law concerning which tribe, Levites, the priests to come from. The verse has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments as you indicate.

Christ was the sin bearer but that did not change his nature. It was like a coat of sin he put on but it did not change him. He was and is always perfect or else he could not have put on that coat of sin and suffered the consequences of sin, the second death, for us.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello Albion.

You are inviting a strong reply from the advocates of the SDA theology, Albion.

I disagree with your proposition also, no one can obey the law and Israel proved
that to be the case.

I agree with Albion on this point, Klutedavid you must not understand SDA theology.

Your disagreement is noted, so when will you kill you neighbor or steal his wife?

 

[klutedavid]

I know that. However, there's no point in being here at all if we cannot discuss things openly (so long as it's civil). That's how I see it unless, of course, if this were the SDA forum. But it's not.

Oh now. At least I ask you to get what I said right. I didn't say that we are able to keep the Law (meaning at all times and perfectly). Nevertheless, it remains a standard of conduct for us. Not a Law, with all that that entails, but a standard.

We ought to do our best to not disrespect our parents, steal, murder, covet, worship idols, etc. I'm sure that you agree with me on that point.

Hello Albion.

I agree with you that we are not under the law, as the consequences would be fatal if
were were under it.

I disagree that the law is a standard of conduct, a moral imperative. Rather the law
delivers to the recipient the divine decree, that we are seriously and deeply flawed
creatures.

The law when correctly understood only grants the knowledge of what sin amounts to.
The intention of the law is simply this self awareness, we are unable to generate any
righteousness of our own. We are simply regenerated in and through Christ by the
power of the Holy Spirit.

Any attempt to obey the written law will result in an ever increasing disobedience.
Stare at any commandment for long enough, and you will only ever see your own
disobedience amplified.

 

[klutedavid]

I agree with Albion on this point, Klutedavid you must not understand SDA theology.

Your disagreement is noted, so when will you kill you neighbor or steal his wife?

Hello Happy Camper.

SDA theology is very simple, break the commandment and die, the law of sin and death.
Dishonor the sabbath and you have the mark of the beast.

Your agreement with Albion has been noted.

I have killed my neighbor when I consider my neighbor to be a fool. I have committed adultery
when I notice how beautiful my neighbor's wife is. The spirit of the law holds everyone captive.
No one can possibly obey the spirit of the law, most struggle with the simple, superficial written
law.

 

[disciple1]

Because I am a sinner and cannot save myself, I have a Savior in the perfect Jesus Christ, I attempt to keep his commandments because he commanded me to.

Your versus Heb 7:12 is explained if you keep reading
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The change in the LAW was the Sanctuary law concerning which tribe, Levites, the priests to come from. The verse has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments as you indicate.

Christ was the sin bearer but that did not change his nature. It was like a coat of sin he put on but it did not change him. He was and is always perfect or else he could not have put on that coat of sin and suffered the consequences of sin, the second death, for us.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
So that must include all the law, if you try to obey.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello Happy Camper.

SDA theology is very simple, break the commandment and die, the law of sin and death.
Dishonor the sabbath and you have the mark of the beast.

Your agreement with Albion has been noted.

I have killed my neighbor when I consider my neighbor to be a fool. I have committed adultery
when I notice how beautiful my neighbor's wife is. The spirit of the law holds everyone captive.
No one can possibly obey the spirit of the law, most struggle with the simple, superficial written
law.

Like I said you do not understand SDA Theology. Your statement above would indicate that there is no forgiveness for sin, thus no Savior and that is not what SDA Theology is. You might do well to understand SDA Theology before you make those type of derogatory statements.

As far as you statement about the mark of the beast, you have it partially right as the issue at the end of this world will be whom you worship, the beast or GOD. But before you can determine what the mark of the beast is you must first determine who or what the beast is.
Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Galatians chapter 5 verse 4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

Like I said in my post I cannot save myself only the lord can save me. So what was your point in quoting Galatians 5:4
Please use the bible and explain Love in you response.

Then why did Jesus say "If you love me keep my commandments"?

 

[klutedavid]

Like I said you do not understand SDA Theology. Your statement above would indicate that there is no forgiveness for sin, thus no Savior and that is not what SDA Theology is. You might do well to understand SDA Theology before you make those type of derogatory statements.

As far as you statement about the mark of the beast, you have it partially right as the issue at the end of this world will be whom you worship, the beast or GOD. But before you can determine what the mark of the beast is you must first determine who or what the beast is.
Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Hello HappyCamper.

Your SDA theology set the benchmark, the benchmark is the ten commandments.
Continue to break the sabbath and all hell breaks loose, that is the definition that
the SDA subscribes to.

Even though Israel failed to obey the words of the old covenant, you seem to be
under the delusion that you can succeed, even though Israel failed. They did not
just fail, they crucified their own creator.

Instead of taking to heart the failure of Israel and learning the lesson, you double
back and submit yourself to the words of the very same covenant. The law is
set at a specified height, that will not allow you to proceed under it.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Galatians chapter 5 verse 4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

Like I said in my post I cannot save myself only the lord can save me. So what was your point in quoting Galatians 5:4
Please use the bible and explain Love in you response.

Then why did Jesus say "If you love me keep my commandments"?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello HappyCamper.

Your SDA theology set the benchmark, the benchmark is the ten commandments.
Continue to break the sabbath and all hell breaks loose, that is the definition that
the SDA subscribes to.

Even though Israel failed to obey the words of the old covenant, you seem to be
under the delusion that you can succeed, even though Israel failed. They did not
just fail, they crucified their own creator.

Instead of taking to heart the failure of Israel and learning the lesson, you double
back and submit yourself to the words of the very same covenant. The law is
set at a specified height, that will not allow you to proceed under it.

Thank you for setting me straight after 37 years of worshiping as an SDA I did not no that was what SDA subscribes to.
Please enlighten me more on how and where you found this information.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Your dates are off just a little...

164 BC is when the temple was cleansed and rededicated after Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated it by setting up a statue or Zeus and having a pig slaughtered on the altar during 167 BC.

This is celebrated with the Jewish feast of Hanukkah.
It is found in the verse below.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.


After the "Great Disappointment" of October 22, 1844 William Miller admitted he had been wrong.

However, some just could not let it go...



Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html


.

How does the Prophecy in Daniel fit with your time table? (see verse 17) It doesn't.
Daniel 8
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Your statement about William Miller is partially right. He did not disavow the timing but he did admit that the event was wrong. They had an understanding that the earth was the sanctuary and that the second coming of the LORD would cleans it. After the "great Disappointment" they discovered through further study that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the sanctuary in Heaven and that Christ and entered into the Most Holy where the investigative judgment was commenced.

Study the sanctuary in the old testament as we are told
Psalm 77:13
Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello Happy Camper.

SDA theology is very simple, break the commandment and die, the law of sin and death.
Dishonor the sabbath and you have the mark of the beast.

Your agreement with Albion has been noted.

I have killed my neighbor when I consider my neighbor to be a fool. I have committed adultery
when I notice how beautiful my neighbor's wife is. The spirit of the law holds everyone captive.
No one can possibly obey the spirit of the law, most struggle with the simple, superficial written
law.

Okay got you to admit that you attempt to obey two of the ten commandments. How about the other eight?