If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

Word_Cuts_Deep · Oct 21, 2015

Brother Gavriel you said: Malachi 4:4-6: “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of YHWH. And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

Think these two go together?

Isa 24:3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. Shalom brother!

Word_Cuts_Deep · Oct 21, 2015

BobRyan I love you brother please go back & read everything & seek & you shall find, Shalom!

Gavriel Abir · Oct 21, 2015

I believe your right

Word_Cuts_Deep · Oct 21, 2015

Gavriel Abir said:
I believe your right

So they obeyed not the word/Torah therefore the curse has devoured the land, these two passages hit me yesterday, made them cross cross references

ClothedInGrace · Oct 21, 2015

So I'm curious, you who say we should "keep" the law, which laws would those be? The ten commandments? The ten commandments plus Christ's commandments? All commandments in the OT and NT? Are you more righteous because you "keep" these commandments? Am I less righteous because I do not "keep" these commandments? You all list yourselves as Messianic and SDA, so I ask, why make the distinction? What happens if a Christian is not Messianic or SDA? Are they still a part of the Body of Christ? Is a Christian wrong because they do not observe the Sabbath?

Just want to see what you believe.

Gavriel Abir · Oct 21, 2015

ClothedInGrace said:
So I'm curious, you who say we should "keep" the law, which laws would those be? The ten commandments? The ten commandments plus Christ's commandments? All commandments in the OT and NT? Are you more righteous because you "keep" these commandments? Am I less righteous because I do not "keep" these commandments? You all list yourselves as Messianic and SDA, so I ask, why make the distinction? What happens if a Christian is not Messianic or SDA? Are they still a part of the Body of Christ? Is a Christian wrong because they do not observe the Sabbath?

Just want to see what you believe.[/QUOTE
You believe that the Messiah's INSTRUCTIONS are different from the Fathers?

Gavriel Abir · Oct 21, 2015

What are the sabbaths?

bbbbbbb · Oct 21, 2015

Gavriel Abir said:
What are the sabbaths?

And when is the Sabbatical year to be observed today and when is the next Year of Jubilee?

Gavriel Abir · Oct 21, 2015

ClothedInGrace said:
So I'm curious, you who say we should "keep" the law, which laws would those be? The ten commandments? The ten commandments plus Christ's commandments? All commandments in the OT and NT? Are you more righteous because you "keep" these commandments? Am I less righteous because I do not "keep" these commandments? You all list yourselves as Messianic and SDA, so I ask, why make the distinction? What happens if a Christian is not Messianic or SDA? Are they still a part of the Body of Christ? Is a Christian wrong because they do not observe the Sabbath?

Just want to see what you believe.

bbbbbbb said:
And when is the Sabbatical year to be observed today and when is the next Year of Jubilee?

I like where your going however I wanted specifics on what they are...Here is a hint:
Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Gavriel Abir · Oct 21, 2015

Soyeong said:
It's interesting that many people ask "What Would Jesus Do?" but don't pause to consider that he would obey the Torah and teach others to do the same.

1 John 2:4-6 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Amein!

Reyes4Christ · Oct 21, 2015

Jesus is the only one that can turn a continuous law breaker into an acceptable citizen of the heavenly kingdom. He didn't come to make it possible for humans not to break the law, they all have and always will as humans. He came to save us from the certain destruction our physical bodies deserve and will receive and make us into spiritual entities who can fulfill the law and can enter the kingdom of heaven.

If you had two children and one wasn't perfect but you knew his heart was in the right place and he did try to follow your rules again and again out of love for you and your rules, you would consider that a win. If he suffered because of your rules his reward would be even greater. But if the other child spent all his time playing word games like some lawyer and spent more time trying to justify his actions or nullify the rules you set up and by these convoluted lawyer games actually broke less laws than the other child (probably by avoiding others so as not to have a chance of breaking the rules) would you as the parent accept this as a win over the son who did everything with love in his heart? If this child did not suffer as much because he thought he found loopholes around some rules would his reward be greater than the first child's?

Pure and righteous love will win every time over parsing words and lawyer talk, which jews in the old testament did. If God asks for something try to give him back more than he asked for. When has someone in the bible ever gotten away with doing less for God than he demanded? Yet whole denominations blatantly throw away or disregard laws that are inconvenient in todays world. This is satans world and he set things up in a way that good would be seen as bad and vice a versa. Its the same lie he always tells. That surely you won't die if you don't follow all the law. Yes, you certainly will, thats why we need Jesus.

ClothedInGrace · Oct 21, 2015

Gavriel Abir said:
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Okay, when someone breaks the Sabbath do you put them to death as God commanded? Also, who is God speaking to here? Israel, the Church, both, maybe all mankind?

Colossians 2:13-17
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Word_Cuts_Deep · Oct 21, 2015

You tell me what did Yehowah say about his Sabbath's? & why ask if you're wrong for not keeping them, maybe there is a conviction in you? They're Yehowah's Sabbaths to his people, & if you consider yourself as his people why not keep his Sabbaths, which are for his people?

Word_Cuts_Deep · Oct 21, 2015

We're not judges & they're not set up so we have no right to stone anyone, doing so would be breaking the Torah.

Gavriel Abir · Oct 21, 2015

Sophrosyne said:
So in other words only the 10 are "God's Laws" and the rest are just stuff Moses made up and God didn't care if they were kept or not?
As for your argument about the Sabbath it falls on deaf ears here I've yet to hear a convincing argument that doesn't outright IGNORE scripture in the OT that equates that the 10 commandments are sole property of Israel alone and ONLY theirs to keep.

So what do they do with these scriptures?....Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. Which is quoting from: Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah. Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. This is the "NEW" Covenant right?

Word_Cuts_Deep · Oct 21, 2015

As I clearly posted above a few comments, the bible tells us what Sin is.

Sophrosyne · Oct 21, 2015

Reyes4Christ said:
Jesus is the only one that can turn a continuous law breaker into an acceptable citizen of the heavenly kingdom. He didn't come to make it possible for humans not to break the law, they all have and always will as humans. He came to save us from the certain destruction our physical bodies deserve and will receive and make us into spiritual entities who can fulfill the law and can enter the kingdom of heaven.

If you had two children and one wasn't perfect but you knew his heart was in the right place and he did try to follow your rules again and again out of love for you and your rules, you would consider that a win. If he suffered because of your rules his reward would be even greater. But if the other child spent all his time playing word games like some lawyer and spent more time trying to justify his actions or nullify the rules you set up and by these convoluted lawyer games actually broke less laws than the other child (probably by avoiding others so as not to have a chance of breaking the rules) would you as the parent accept this as a win over the son who did everything with love in his heart? If this child did not suffer as much because he thought he found loopholes around some rules would his reward be greater than the first child's?

Pure and righteous love will win every time over parsing words and lawyer talk, which jews in the old testament did. If God asks for something try to give him back more than he asked for. When has someone in the bible ever gotten away with doing less for God than he demanded? Yet whole denominations blatantly throw away or disregard laws that are inconvenient in todays world. This is satans world and he set things up in a way that good would be seen as bad and vice a versa. Its the same lie he always tells. That surely you won't die if you don't follow all the law. Yes, you certainly will, thats why we need Jesus.

This logic is good but there is flaws to it in that you can have two children one who obeys but despises their parents and only wants what they can give them and another that has problems obeying compared to the other but loves their parents and is less interested in reward from them. Does the child who obeys more get favor in the end or the one who loves more? So in the end it is not about the rules or obedience but the heart (love) behind it all.

ClothedInGrace · Oct 21, 2015

Word_Cuts_Deep said:
You tell me what did Yehowah say about his Sabbath's? & why ask if you're wrong for not keeping them, maybe there is a conviction in you? They're Yehowah's Sabbaths to his people, & if you consider yourself as his people why not keep his Sabbaths, which are for his people?

Conviction in me? No, I simply wanted you to reveal what you really believe about Christians who do not keep the Sabbath.
Look at the verse I posted, the Sabbath was a shadow, a picture of the reality in Christ.

Sophrosyne · Oct 21, 2015

Gavriel Abir said:
So what do they do with these scriptures?....Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. Which is quoting from: Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah. Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. This is the "NEW" Covenant right?

The house if Israel and the house of Judah isn't gentiles, using this scripture alone doesn't allow Gentiles to participate one has to read what Paul wrote regarding it all, God went first to Israel then after the cross offered the Gentiles the New Covenant while they were NOT part of Israel. In other words you are trying to put the cart before the horse unless you have this faulty notion one is grafted into Israel by faith in Jesus.

Word_Cuts_Deep · Oct 21, 2015

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally/fleshy minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal/fleshy mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

G5293

ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: - be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

Isa 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

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