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You should read and understand the Book of the Law.You said gentiles weren't included in the OC and I showed plenty of examples of gentiles who came to faith in the Old Testament. My point was that saying gentiles aren't included is the same as saying unbelievers aren't included, obviously if you don't submit to God you aren't part of his covenants. What do you have to say about those eternal life/resurrection quotes? I thought you said there was no hope of eternal life before the new covenant? Here's another set, enjoy Ezekiel 37:1-14
That's my goal, I want to understand which laws can still be followed so I can stop living in sin.You should read and understand the Book of the Law.
bugkiller
....
What I would like to emphasize from the New Testament is that there is no indication that a special day of rest is part of the new covenant. Hebrews tells us not to forsake assembling ourselves together. Every day is the Lord's day and if a church feels the need to make one day special we are free to do just that.
The big problem that I see is that some groups insist that we worship on the day they hold dear to their hearts. We have given them proof over and over that they are in the wrong by doing so. They even make it a salvational issue, damning us to hell if we don't abide by their misconceptions. Throughout all of history Biblical and otherwise God has never given gentiles a command to observe a day. Only Israel was given a command to observe days and all of those days had significance only for Israel. The weekly Sabbath was to commemorate their release from bondage in Egypt as was Passover. The other feast holy days were specific to Israel only. The covenant which contained all of those ritual commands ended at the Cross. Jesus fulfilled the law. Israel broke the covenant making the covenant void
That's my goal, I want to understand which laws can still be followed so I can stop living in sin.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
I'm waiting till I become totally compliant and full of understanding before I get baptized for the remission of sins. After all, I don't want to get saved, just to sin again and lose my salvation.
Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
There is absolutely no doubt that very early Sunday became the day most Christians gathered to fellowship and hear the word. That in no way is a "command of Jesus" as you indicated. I have no idea where you got your information ,but searching scripture is certainly is not there. And of course there in no penalty involved with not observing a day which is further indication we are not under a ritual day law.I agree that every day is the Lord's day because God creates every day and so every day is His day. Romans 14:5-7
That said, the early Church gathered together to worship on the first day of the week, and the early Church called it the Lord's Day. Since everyone learned from the Church elders' oral preaching that this was the specific day of the week that they were to gather together and it was the common practice, there was no need to specifically remind anyone of this fact many years later when the NC Scriptures were first written. Everyone in that time period received specific teaching about the requirements for worship directly from the apostles and disciples and their successors.
Thessalonians 2:15, Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2
We know that John was in the spirit on a specific day of the week which he called the Lord's Day, which was known by all Christians at that time to be the first day of the week.
Revelation 1:10If you read the early church fathers' writings, you will find much evidence for their meeting together specifically on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, nkjv
God does not punish people who are, through no fault of their own, truly ignorant of Jesus' command to worship on the first day of the week. God knows the heart of each and every person and He knows which people would have followed His command if they had known it, and so He judges them according to His mercy and justice.
You will find from historical records that the early Christians met together to worship on the first day of the week, Sunday, which they called the Lord's Day and that this is the day of the week that Jesus told them to gather together to worship.
God began the physical creation of the world on the first day of the week through His Word. Genesis 1:3. John 1:1-5
Jesus began the spiritual re-creation of the world on the first day of the week when He [THE Word] rose from the dead on this day.
The early Christians celebrated the feast of Pentecost but not in the same manner as the Jews. 2 Maccabees 12:32
The word pentecost is a Greek word and it simply means 50.
Exactly 50 days after the Resurrection, on the first day of the week, the Holy Spirit descended upon and empowered the apostles to go out to all the nations to make disciples for Him. Matthew 28:18-20
Some Christians today do celebrate the birthday of the Church every year and they call it the Feast of Pentecost. 1 Corinthians 16:8
Do you...well never mind as it might be misunderstood.That's my goal, I want to understand which laws can still be followed so I can stop living in sin.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
I'm waiting till I become totally compliant and full of understanding before I get baptized for the remission of sins. After all, I don't want to get saved, just to sin again and lose my salvation.
Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Doesn't God say in His Own Word,
that being re-born / born again/ is not up to the will of man, nor of the flesh,
but
(simply and purely and perfectly)
by the Will of The Father in Heaven ?
Just like a physical conception never happens except the Father accomplishes it/ grants it/
so also even moreso
a spiritual re-birth never happens except by the Fathers Design/ Will/ Purpose/ WHEN HE Grants it (IF He Grants it).
There is absolutely no doubt that very early Sunday became the day most Christians gathered to fellowship and hear the word. That in no way is a "command of Jesus" as you indicated. I have no idea where you got your information ,but searching scripture is certainly is not there. And of course there in no penalty involved with not observing a day which is further indication we are not under a ritual day law.
You should read and understand the Book of the Law.
bugkiller
The command for Sunday worship is not specifically listed in the Scriptures, but it was never, ever the plan of God to have every command for Christians listed in the Scriptures.
Another opportunity to evaluate the subject "sola scriptura" -
======================================
1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)
2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.
3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.
4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week day 1 to week day 1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath.
5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.
6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.
7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.
8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.
============================= btw -
The elders consisting of scribes and pharisees are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat in the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)
I agree that every day is the Lord's day because God creates every day and so every day is His day. Romans 14:5-7
Is it so hard to say "you are correct"? New Covenant Christians use the writings of the Apostles as our guide and none of them ever expressed that we are to "keep" Sunday. I seems to me trying to prove that we must observe Sunday is just as futile as trying to prove we must "keep" the Sabbath of old Israel.The command for Sunday worship is not specifically listed in the Scriptures, but it was never, ever the plan of God to have every command for Christians listed in the Scriptures.
The Scriptures were written as a supplement to the apostles' and disciples' oral preaching. Jesus never told the apostles to write a book and then have each person interpret it for himself. Jesus founded a Church and He gave His authority to its leaders and their successors to write letters, to choose which of their writings to compile into a book, to interpret their own Scriptures, and to make laws concerning the disciplines of the Church and the rituals of Christian worship. Matthew 28:18-20, Luke10:16, Acts 1:16-27, 2 Timothy 2:2,
Matthew 16:17-19
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” rsv
Ephesians 2:19-21
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God [Church], 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, nkjv
Matthew 18:18
Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. rsv
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. rsv
There is a penalty for the people who know that they are required to obey the commands/laws of the apostles and their successors, if they do not obey the commands of the apostles and their successors. Luke10:16, Matthew 18:15-18
1 Corinthians 14:37We do not have possession of all the correspondence of the apostles and their successors. I do know that there was another letter written to the Corinthians which was lost because Paul states in 1 Corinthians that he had written a previous letter to them.
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. rsv
1 Corinthians 5:9-10
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. nkjv
The NT Scriptures were written by Christian Church Leaders and they used them as supplementary instructions for the Christian disciples who had already had the gospel preached to them. "Scripture Only" or "Scripture Alone" or "Sola Scriptura" is not a true doctrine in the Christian Faith founded by Jesus Christ.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. nkjv
......Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
You wrote: "Jesus told them to worship Him on the first day of the week, Sunday." That is simply not the truth and you should know that it isn't. It is bad enough for law promoters to tell us we must follow Moses, but to put words in Jesus mouth is something elseChristians do not violate the commandments of Jesus Christ when they worship Him on Sunday instead of Saturday. The early church fathers said that The apostles obeyed Jesus' teaching and they called His day, the Lord's Day.
Jesus would indeed be a sinner and false prophet if the added new commands.You wrote: "Jesus told them to worship Him on the first day of the week, Sunday." That is simply not the truth and you should know that it isn't. It is bad enough for law promoters to tell us we must follow Moses, but to put words in Jesus mouth is something else
Act 17:11
They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul -- were SO"
No wonder the sola-scriptura case for the Bible Sabbath works out so well...
You wrote: "Jesus told them to worship Him on the first day of the week, Sunday." That is simply not the truth and you should know that it isn't. It is bad enough for law promoters to tell us we must follow Moses, but to put words in Jesus mouth is something else
Jesus would indeed be a sinner and false prophet if the added new commands.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
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