If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Poster0]

A number of people have commented to me that they see the Bible details I have posted and welcome them - but are not posting. The idea that the "objective unbiased readers" will never see the point is not realistic at all.

In fact if we just look at objectivity - we find that the majority of the points I have made on this thread are the SAME points made in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments, Matthew Henrys' statement on the same points I have raised, C.H. Spurgeon's statements, those found in Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II, The Catholic Catechism on certain points ... many many pro-Sunday sources admitting to many of the SAME - obvious Bible details.

So I for one am not ready to toss out every shred of objectivity and declare that only SDAs can see these Bible details.

The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Those who argue for such non-objectivity -- are giving up on the Bible details - and avoiding even the simplest of questions asked here to expose the solution to the point. An extreme that not everyone will follow.

Cool, so even though you and Catholics don't agree on Sabbath, you agree that the ten commandments must be observed. Everyone agrees except me, I must be a heretic because I don't believe in following holy days. Poor me, I'm all by myself, you have successfully alienated me from the whole Christian body now. maybe you can have me banned, lol. (yes, that was sarcasm)

Look, paul teaches all the same commandments that are found in the ten commands, except Sabbath, and I don't see him commanding Sunday worship either, so please forgive me if I don't share your view, or that of Catholics either.

 

[Poster0]

Christ said not to delete scripture - and so also did the Apostles - hence they quote it - over and over and over again -- NEVER saying "All of scripture has now been deleted except for this one quote of it" -- as we all know.

I believe that by admitting to a series of obvious details - all the errors about NT writers supposedly deleting scripture can be easily refuted.

I didn't delete any commandment. My bible still has the command that Jews must be circumcised, however I don't obey that command because paul didn't teach me to obey it.

 

[BobRyan]

Are you a Jew?

I don't see a Bible command that gentiles must be circumcised.

But I do see Paul having Timothy circumcised in Acts 16. Timothy was a Jew - a Christian Jew.

 

[BobRyan]

A number of people have commented to me that they see the Bible details I have posted and welcome them - but are not posting. The idea that the "objective unbiased readers" will never see the point is not realistic at all.

In fact if we just look at objectivity - we find that the majority of the points I have made on this thread are the SAME points made in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments, Matthew Henrys' statement on the same points I have raised, C.H. Spurgeon's statements, those found in Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II, The Catholic Catechism on certain points ... many many pro-Sunday sources admitting to many of the SAME - obvious Bible details.

So I for one am not ready to toss out every shred of objectivity and declare that only SDAs can see these Bible details.

The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Those who argue for such non-objectivity -- are giving up on the Bible details - and avoiding even the simplest of questions asked here to expose the solution to the point. An extreme that not everyone will follow.

Cool, so even though you and Catholics don't agree on Sabbath, you agree that the ten commandments must be observed. Everyone agrees except me,

You have free will -- you can accept or reject whatever you wish.

But supposing that all the positions I have taken on this thread are "just SDA views" is a huge mistake in terms of the facts of history.

I must be a heretic because I don't believe in following holy days. Poor me, I'm all by myself

I have not proposed name calling - I have simply proposed paying attention to objective fact. It is not at all true that only SDAs admit to the Bible details I keep highlighting. Even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship will admit to most of it.

, you have successfully alienated me from the whole Christian body now.

How is willingness to admit to objective historic fact - something that "alienates you"????

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

Look, paul teaches all the same commandments that are found in the ten commands, except Sabbath,

Are you speculating that is true - or do you have actual Bible proof?

For example - where did you find Paul quoting the third commandment - saying not to take God's name in vain"

(Answer: you did not find it at all). But that is ok since you also never found Paul saying "delete of of scripture except what I am about to say"

Where did you find Paul affirming the unit of TEN - as applicable to mankind after the cross??
(Answer - you found it in Eph 6:2 that so many here are carefully avoiding).

Where did you find James saying "to break one is to break them all?"
Answer - you found it in James 2.

Where did you find Paul contrasting the moral law of God with the ceremonial law of circumcision?
Answer - you found it in 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

and I don't see him commanding Sunday worship either, so please forgive me if I don't share your view, or that of Catholics either.

You have free will - you can accept or reject whatever you like.

I prefer 'sola scriptura' testing of all doctrine and tradition as Christ did in Mark 7:6-13 - and the Bible has "66 books in it" -- not just 27, not just 23.

AT least - the Bible I use has it.

 

[BobRyan]

Christianity Today - in Jan of this year points out that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the 5th largest Christian denomination - after the RCC, the Orthodox, Anglican, Assemblies of God.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God.

One of the key ways that has come about - is by embracing Bible details -- not avoiding them. And as it turns out - a great many non-SDAs prefer that model and that is why so many have joined in recent years.

Yet even if they do not join - I think there is a growing number that are more interested in what the Bible says - over what an entrenched-church-tradition tells them to think. Hence you will see decline in some groups over time as more and more people all across the world wake up to some of these Bible details.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Poster0]

Are you a Jew?

I don't see a Bible command that gentiles must be circumcised.

But I do see Paul having Timothy circumcised in Acts 16. Timothy was a Jew - a Christian Jew.

Bingo, I also don't see one that Christians must keep Sabbath.

 

[Poster0]

Are you speculating that is true - or do you have actual Bible proof?

For example - where did you find Paul quoting the third commandment - saying not to take God's name in vain"

(Answer: you did not find it at all).

It seems rather obvious that even gentiles should not take Gods name in vain. However, Paul does teach it in another way. Here is a scripture for you to consider. This scripture teaches us what it means to take Gods name in vain, even though it talks about HIs grace and not his name, it still means the same thing

2 Corinthians 6:16 We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. 2 For He says:


“In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”[a]

Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

3 We give no offense in anything, that our ministry may not be blamed. 4 But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God: in much patience, in tribulations, in needs, in distresses, 5 in stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in sleeplessness, in fastings; 6 by purity, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love, 7 by the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 8 by honor and dishonor, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and yet true; 9 as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold we live; as chastened, and yet not killed; 10 as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

 

[BobRyan]

Question - where do you find Paul testifying under oath as to exactly what he was teaching?

Answer:
from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.

Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself;Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

 

[Poster0]

Christianity Today - in Jan of this year points out that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the 5th largest Christian denomination - after the RCC, the Orthodox, Anglican, Assemblies of God.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html



One of the key ways that has come about - is by embracing Bible details -- not avoiding them. And as it turns out - a great many non-SDAs prefer that model and that is why so many have joined in recent years.

Yet even if they do not join - I think there is a growing number that are more interested in what the Bible says - over what an entrenched-church-tradition tells them to think. Hence you will see decline in some groups over time as more and more people all across the world wake up to some of these Bible details.

in Christ,

Bob

Numbers don't mean anything. Paul talked about those who boasted in their credentials, but paul said that its quality, not quantity that proves good teaching. I also believe that Christ said something similar

 

[Poster0]

Question - where do you find Paul testifying under oath as to exactly what he was teaching?

Answer:
from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.

Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

lol, have a good night Bob.

 

[BobRyan]

It seems rather obvious that even gentiles should not take Gods name in vain.

Paul said it was obvious that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19
Paul said "do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? on the contrary we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom3:31
Paul said the same moral law of God known to Jeremiah is "written on the mind and heart" of the saints in the NT.
Paul said that only the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-8
Paul said "There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9
James said "to break ONE of the Commandments is to break them ALL" James 2
In Heb 8:6-10 Paul said the Commandments at Sinai -- are Christ's Commandments.

Paul quotes from the Sabbath Commandment in Acts and in Hebrews 4 -- he never quotes the 3rd commandment against taking God's name in vain. But that is fine - since the mythical teaching "delete whatever I did not repeat" is nothing that Paul ever taught.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Some skim these Bible texts and suppose that all they see here is "not one shred of evidence for week-day-1 as the Lord's day" -- but more than that - these texts point to what GOD says in HIS Word about HIS memorial of creation.

It goes beyond Rev 14:7 "the hour of His judgment has come - WORSHIP HIM WHO MADE - the heavens the earth the seas and the springs of water" -- (one of several NT instances quoting from the Sabbath commandment)

===============================================

Many of those who enjoy the details of scripture - are going to just love this.

Until - you notice these "Bible details"

1. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"
-- But we do have "the SEVENTH day is the Sabbath"
-- And we DO have "The Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13
-- and we DO have "the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

2. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "remember week day 1 to keep it holy"
-- But we do have "REMEMBER the seventh day to keep it holy"
-- And we DO have "The Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13
-- and we DO have "the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

3. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "There remains therefore a week-day-1 REST for the people of God"
-- but we DO have "there remains therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9

4. Not ONE text in the Bible saying " I have edited/changed the Sabbath commandment repointing it week day 1"
-- but we DO have " I, the Lord, do not change;" Mal 3:6
-- we DO have "he who breaks one - breaks them all" James 2
-- we DO have "Jesus Christ is the SAME yesterday and today and forever" Heb 13
-- we DO have "17 Do NOT think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Matt 5:17-18

5. Not ONE text saying "the traditions of the church may freely edit delete revise the Word of God" -
-- but we DO have Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

6. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "from week-day-1 to week-day-1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
-- but we DO have "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

7. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "week-day-1 was made FOR mankind"
-- but we DO have "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
-- Both of which were made in the same 7 day week of Gen 1:2-2:3

 

[BABerean2]

Christianity Today - in Jan of this year points out that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the 5th largest Christian denomination - after the RCC, the Orthodox, Anglican, Assemblies of God.

It would seem only fair to offer the readers a history of the denomination, whether it be the Lutherans, Methodists, RCC, etc.

How many people, including those within SDA, know about "The Great Disappointment" of Oct. 22, 1844 when William Miller and his followers were not caught up to heaven by Christ?

How many know about "The Shut Door" doctrine of the time period around 1844?

Much of this history is available from the Estate of Ellen G. White.

http://whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

 

[BobRyan]

It would seem only fair to offer the readers a history of the denomination, whether it be the Lutherans, Methodists, RCC, etc.

How many people, including those within SDA, know about "The Great Disappointment" of Oct. 22, 1844 when William Miller and his followers were not caught up to heaven by Christ?

How many know about "The Shut Door" doctrine of the time period around 1844?

Much of this history is available from the Estate of Ellen G. White.

http://whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

It is hard to find an SDA that does NOT know about the Millerite movement in the 1830's and 1840's that came before the organization of the SDA church in the 1860's. Of the 50,000 or so Millerites in 1844, 50 went on to start the SDA church.

The Millerite "Great Dissappointment" gets presented every single time we do an evangelistic program because we really really - really like that 2300 day timeline that Millerites discovered - that points to 1844.

The Millerite concept of "Shut door" following the disappointment of 1844 - might not be as well known by every single member - by contrast with the first two points - but at least for a few months it is certain that many in that Millerite group were sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop - and thinking that Gospel evangelism had come to a stand still - at least they must have thought that to be the case briefly.

But the SDA church did not grow from 50 up to become the 5th largest Christian denomination world wide - by simply "not evangelizing" all those years. We created the 2nd largest Christians disaster relief agency, second largest private Christian school system, second largest private Christian healthcare system in the world.

Still the point in even bringing this up was the idea that only SDAs know about certain of these Bible details about the LAW of God. My point was that many many non-SDAs know them and that the SDA church engages in a lot of evangelism where these details are presented to non-SDA audiences using the "sola scriptura" method of testing all doctrine and tradition.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Here is a link to the fifteen largest Protestant denominations in the United States. You will not find the SDA among them. http://www.christianpost.com/news/t...ant-denominations-in-the-united-states-92731/

 

[Poster0]

Bigger is not always better.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a link to the fifteen largest Protestant denominations in the United States. You will not find the SDA among them. http://www.christianpost.com/news/t...ant-denominations-in-the-united-states-92731/

They did not find the Catholics or the Orthodox, or the Anglicans or the Assemblies of God - groups that are larger than the SDAs.

Your link finds a 16.5 million member organization but could not find the 18.5 million member Christian organization - with the 2nd largest christian educational, healthcare, and disaster relief organization in the world.

In any case they used to be 10 times our size so I am glad that they are still around.

Christianity Today found SDAs --

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

 

[bbbbbbb]

Christianity Today found SDAs and apparently determines the organization by its actual definition, management etc - such as how the local churches are administered the way that tithes and offerings are managed as a single organization etc.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

The article repeats the membership claims of the SDA. In the United States alone the Southern Baptist Convention claims 16.2 million members. If you include all of the members of their foreign churches the total would significantly outnumber that claimed by the SDA.

In any event, you can find statistics to prop up virtually any claim you wish to make.

 

[BobRyan]

The article repeats the membership claims of the SDA. In the United States alone the Southern Baptist Convention claims 16.2 million members. If you include all of the members of their foreign churches the total would significantly outnumber that claimed by the SDA.

That would be - great - please show us that number.

2000 15,900,000
2005 16,600,000
2006 16,306,246
2007 16,266,920
2008 16,228,438
2009 16,160,088
2010 16,136,044
2011 15,978,112
2012 15,872,404
2013 15,735,640
2014 15,499,173
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention

Kind of curios the trend since 2010

 

[bbbbbbb]

That would be - great - please show us that number.

2000 15,900,000
2005 16,600,000
2006 16,306,246
2007 16,266,920
2008 16,228,438
2009 16,160,088
2010 16,136,044
2011 15,978,112
2012 15,872,404
2013 15,735,640
2014 15,499,173
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention

Kind of curios the trend since 2010

Here is an interesting link for you to chew on - http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...ts/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

You can see that several denominations such as the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Germany, which are not mentioned in your news article, have significantly larger claimed memberships than the SDA.