If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[BobRyan]

Its unspiritual to debate and argue over observing something as silly as what day of week we should attend Church. I'll be bowing out now.

you are missing a few details.

1. Is the Sabbath Commandment silly? Some would say "no". Many on both sides will agree that God gave no "silly" commandment in His Ten commandments.
2. Does the Sabbath commandment specify the first day or the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath? "many on both sides of the debate - will admit it is the 7th day".
3. Is Sunday the first day or the 7th day of that week? "Almost all on this board -- on both sides will admit that Sunday is the first day".

So far - those details are not what the debate is about. (At least in the vast majority of cases).

But your post makes it appear that you believe that one of these 3 points is what is being debated.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The authority of the apostles' successors was given to them by a specific type of laying on of the hands [priestly ordination] by the apostles/elders and this is noted in 2 Timothy 1:6 and 1 Timothy 5:22.

The Church's leaders/bishops were given authority by Jesus Christ:
.

There is not even one example of ANY Apostle having an "Apostolic successor" -- in the Bible - other than the Acts 1 case of Judas.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Paul warned about forgeries in 2 Thess 2:1-2

Just remember what those forgeries were about, saying the Day of the Lord had already come.

That's true - Paul warned of upcoming forgeries as follows:

2Thess 2
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

 

[BobRyan]

@ True Science

Also, with your assertions about Peters warning, you seem to be suggesting that if we don't observe holy days that we are being lawless. That assertion doesn't jive with Romans 13 and 14.

Romans 14 speaks of the Lev 23 list of annual holy days - and says of those annual holy days that "one man observes one above the others while another man observes them all".

But it does not say that the Sabbath Commandment is silly.

 

[BABerean2]

You should read my Acts 15 and Uncleanness is still a Sin in the New Covenant papers some time. googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1445020441508-1'); });

Since I am fairly new to this thread, if you will provide me with a link, I will read it.

The New Covenant is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic Promise, not the Sinai covenant, based on the text below.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(The Sinai covenant was added 430 years after the Abrahamic Promise.
It cannot disannul the Abrahamic Promise.)

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(Our inheritance does not come by the law.)

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(The law was added after the promise to Abraham, until the Seed (Christ) could come.)

.

 

[Poster0]

you are missing a few details.

1. Is the Sabbath Commandment silly? Some would say "no". Many on both sides will agree that God gave no "silly" commandment in His Ten commandments.
2. Does the Sabbath commandment specify the first day or the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath? "many on both sides of the debate - will admit it is the 7th day".
3. Is Sunday the first day or the 7th day of that week? "Almost all on this board -- on both sides will admit that Sunday is the first day".

So far - those details are not what the debate is about. (At least in the vast majority of cases).

But your post makes it appear that you believe that one of these 3 points is what is being debated.

in Christ,

Bob

Actually Bob, I was only responding to the posts which were debating which day of week the church gathered together. Im sure you are aware of that so im unsure why you misrepresented my comments, but perhaps you may want to go back and see what i was responding to, incase you are confused. Forgive me for suggesting that sabbath was silly, that was not actually my intention. Anyway, i dont care who does what on what day, so im done with this discussion now.

 

[Meowzltov]

Is this really necessary? I'm sure you're aware of this scripture. You have a biased opinion because you hold onto Catholic teaching. Truth is however that your evidence is not evidence at all.


ACts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Actually it's the other way around; I'm Catholic because the Scripture supports it.

I believe Sunday was SPECIAL, as it was called The Lord's Day in Revelation. We know The Lord's Day was Sunday from Ignatius Letter to the Magnesians (Ignatius was a student of John, baptized by Peter, who became bishop of Antioch).

Thank you for the scripture you provided. It's always good to learn something new. Today my church also offers Eucharist every day of the week, although The Lord's Day has a special solemnity.

 

[Meowzltov]

Yes it is. Paul said we have liberty, and he instructs us not to use it to indulge in flesh, but to love and serve each other instead. Obviously Paul is referring to liberty from the law, which includes holy days.

LIberty from the law means that we receive salvation by grace. It doesn't mean we can break the law/sin.

 

[Poster0]

LIberty from the law means that we receive salvation by grace. It doesn't mean we can break the law/sin.

The liberty that Paul mentions in Galatians 5 is referring to liberty from the Law of Moses, but its not exclusively referring to salvation by grace. It specifically refers to liberty from circumcision, which means we have been liberated from that requirement. Its very clear and discernable. Biblical Christian liberty has multiple concepts.



Here is an excerpt from a web page that I found to lend credibility to me assertion. (the link is at the bottom)


Question: "Christian liberty – what does the Bible say?"

Answer: Christian liberty is found in the Bible in several concepts. For example, liberty for the Christian can mean that he or she has been freed from the penalty of sin by faith in Jesus Christ (John 8:31-36; Romans 6:23). Also, Christian liberty can refer to being freed from the power of sin in one's life by daily faith in Jesus Christ as Lord of one's character and conduct (Romans 6:5-6,14). In addition, Christian liberty can mean that Christians are freed from the Jewish Law of Moses in that the Law only "exposes" sin in one's life but cannot "forgive" sin (Romans 3:20-22).


http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-liberty.html

 

[Poster0]

Actually it's the other way around; I'm Catholic because the Scripture supports it.

I believe Sunday was SPECIAL, as it was called The Lord's Day in Revelation. We know The Lord's Day was Sunday from Ignatius Letter to the Magnesians (Ignatius was a student of John, baptized by Peter, who became bishop of Antioch).

Thank you for the scripture you provided. It's always good to learn something new. Today my church also offers Eucharist every day of the week, although The Lord's Day has a special solemnity.

Revelation is not referring to Sunday, and neither is Hebrews 4.

 

[Meowzltov]

so them MORE than 50% are frauds - that everyone agrees with.

As for doubting the "remainder" --

You will always find a few who go against the consensus. It's no reason to doubt the consensus. To doubt the consensus is to say that scholarship has no merit. You might as well just toss education and higher level thinking out the window and roll a dice for the answers.

 

[Meowzltov]

God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

"But Sunday is the day on which we [Christians] all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

Good quotes

 

[Meowzltov]

The liberty that Paul mentions in Galatians 5 is referring to liberty from the Law of Moses, but its not exclusively referring to salvation by grace. It specifically refers to liberty from circumcision, which means we have been liberated from that requirement. Its very clear and discernable. Biblical Christian liberty has multiple concepts.

Circumcision means taking on the covenant of Sinai, the obligation to the 613 laws. Gentiles need not do this, and have NEVER had to do this. Acts 15 makes it clear that Gentiles need not convert to Israel. But Gentiles still have to obey the law as in Natural Law. Paul lists many of the laws that Gentiles are to obey such as not fornicating, brawling, defrauding, idolatry, etc.

 

[Meowzltov]

Revelation is not referring to Sunday, and neither is Hebrews 4.

Yes, it is. We know from the writings of those directly taught by the Apostles (such as Ignatius, that The Lord's Day refers to the first day of the week.)

 

[Poster0]

Circumcision means taking on the covenant of Sinai, the obligation to the 613 laws. Gentiles need not do this, and have NEVER had to do this. Acts 15 makes it clear that Gentiles need not convert to Israel. But Gentiles still have to obey the law as in Natural Law. Paul lists many of the laws that Gentiles are to obey such as not fornicating, brawling, defrauding, idolatry, etc.

Still, your original assertion was incorrect

 

[Poster0]

Yes, it is. We know from the writings of those directly taught by the Apostles (such as Ignatius, that The Lord's Day refers to the first day of the week.)

I'm not buying it. I don't believe that Sunday is the Lords day. Forgive me, but I think that is ridiculous. I believe that the Lords day is actually what is known as "the day of the Lord" which refers not to Sunday but instead refers to the return of Christ and judgment on the world.

 

[Poster0]

No where in Paul's writings, or any other apostle, do we see them refer to any day of the week as the Lords day. I would think that if it were truly the Lords day they would have called it the "Lords day". I just don't understand why Paul would endorse a particular day as being holy after he went through such great lengths to teach liberty from such things. I believe the Sunday tradition was not handed down by the New testament apostles and its really just a man made tradition that came after their death. However, I also understand that people are going to believe what they are taught by their denomination regardless of what scripture teaches, so that's all I have to say, please continue this discussion without me, and please have a nice day as well.