If you had God's powers, how would you communicate with people?

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thomas_t

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The implication being, you wouldn't always try to save them.
After I tried to convince them I wouldn't stop them - I'm speaking of friends who hypothetically would try suicide.
Inviting people doesn't mean doing anything and everything to get them in.
Either God didn't try to save us, in which case He obviously doesn't love us that much.
Or He did try to save us, and failed to.
Here we disagree. Jesus tried... but was not popular. He loved us, but his creation did not love him back.
You're trying to blame God for not being popular enough.

Oh sure, we have the bible. The churches. The nice people on Christian Forums assuring us that we should be Christians, and to beware of hell.
:oldthumbsup:
But God doesn't prove that He's true. You know He doesn't.
no, as @MrsFoundit mentioned, we have Romans 1:20 indicating that nature is proof enough.
He doesn't prove himself twice, it seems to me though.
And yet God is real.
And he will decide who is actually innocent or not and which place everyone needs to go. He will judge righteously.
Thomas

EDIT: I meant "did not" in the second paragraph, I corrected it
 
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MrsFoundit

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You seem to imagine that God directly appearing to a person and directly convincing them

Not using those precise words, of course, but that was your meaning.

You do not know what I imagine or what I mean by words I did use, you certainly do not have much basis when an argument depends on words I did not use.

Try the words in my post 149, for ones I did use.
 
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Here we disagree. Jesus tried... but was not popular. He loved us, but his creation did love him back.
You're trying to blame God for not being popular enough.
No, I'm not. I'm blaming God for not trying hard enough to save people from danger.
Or, rather, I'm saying that if a person believed God existed, that is the logical thing for them to do.
no, as @MrsFoundit mentioned, we have Romans 1:20 indicating that nature is proof enough.
What MrsFoundit says is only as good as the arguments she uses. And saying the Bible says something is the case doesn't mean that it is.
He doesn't prove himself twice, it seems to me though.
First of all, saying that nature is proof of God only works for theism, not Christianity. Which god? There are quite literally thousands of them, and you believe in none of them except yours, and all the people who believe - or believed, throughout history - in the other gods, don't believe in yours.
So to say that nature proves that God exists is demonstrably innacurate. The best you can say is "nature proves that a god exists." but that wouldn't look so good in the Bible, would it? Like many Christian arguments, it helps enormously if you already believe in God. Apologetics aren't generally there to convince doubters, but to reassure the faithful.
And yet God is real.
Hmmm. Seen Him, have you? Or just read about Him in a book, and felt convinced that it was true?
And he will decide who is actually innocent or not and which place everyone needs to go. He will judge righteously.
Oh, good. I'm not going to hell after all. Hooray!
 
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thomas_t

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Seen Him, have you? Or just read about Him in a book, and felt convinced that it was true?
it's just my belief.
---
I believe anything Bible tells us is right.
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Judging righteously doesn't necessarily mean you'll end up in heaven. Let Jesus decide, I suggest.
I'm blaming God for not trying hard enough to save people from danger.
I stick to my opinion that it's a popularity thing here. He's not popular and people reject him and don't like him.
First of all, saying that nature is proof of God only works for theism, not Christianity. Which god?
It's a loving one. Look at this:

autumn-219972__340.jpg


It's God ;)
 
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You do not know what I imagine or what I mean by words I did use.
I assume that you mean what you say. If you do not mean something, you should not say it.
Try the words in my post 149, for ones I did use.
Post 149 also confirms what I am saying. "Jesus does the judging part as to who chose what and why."
And in post 98, as I showed above, you said that people all have chances not to go to hell, and that they go where they want. Your saying that this doesn't mean people choose to go to hell just because you didn't say it in those exact words is simply wrong.

The problem with Christian beliefs is they are incoherent. Logically, they don't make sense. That's why what Christians say they think is overruled by the way they talk about things, which shows what they really think. They would like to be nice, kind and good, but they subscribe to a set of beliefs which does not allow them to be, except when they ignore it.
It is wrong of God to send people to hell. That's why you have to defend him by saying that people send themselves there. This is, of course, nonsensical, but the alternative is for you to say that God is wrong; and this, you cannot do.
 
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it's just my belief.
---
I believe anything Bible tells us is right.
Irrational. you should believe that things are right if there is good evidence that what they say corresponds with reality.
Judging righteously doesn't necessarily mean you'll end up in heaven. Let Jesus decide, I suggest.
Well, I know I'm innocent, so if Jesus does actually judge justly I'll be alright.
I stick to my opinion that it's a popularity thing here. He's not popular and people reject him and don't like him.
You can stick to your opinion if you like, but it's mistaken. What I'm saying is:
1. God desires that people should be saved.
2. God attempts to save people.
3. God fails every time a person is not saved.
4. God has failed far more than He has succeeded.
I don't expect you to accept this or admit it. You'd have to stop being a Christian if you did.
It's a loving one. Look at this:
Sir David Attenborough, the famous broadcaster and naturalist:
"People sometimes say to me, 'Why don't you admit that the humming bird, the butterfly, the Bird of Paradise are proof of the wonderful things produced by Creation?' And I always say, well, when you say that, you've also got to think of a little boy sitting on a river bank, like here, in West Africa, that's got a little worm, a living organism, in his eye and boring through the eyeball and is slowly turning him blind. The Creator God that you believe in, presumably, also made that little worm. Now I personally find that difficult to accommodate."
Surely a scene of that majesty has to be the work of Jupiter. ;)
 
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MrsFoundit

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What MrsFoundit says is only as good as the arguments she uses. And saying the Bible says something is the case doesn't mean that it is.

No, but it does mean it says what it says, and that alone shows your arguments about human choice and God's capacity to reach people to be false.
 
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MrsFoundit

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What I'm saying is:
1. God desires that people should be saved.
2. God attempts to save people.

In accordance with their choices, not regardless of their choices, yes.

3. God fails every time a person is not saved.
4. God has failed far more than He has succeeded.

No failure occurs, because God's choice to respect our own choices is not failure.
 
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MrsFoundit

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Sir David Attenborough, the famous broadcaster and naturalist:
"The Creator God that you believe in, presumably, also made that little worm. Now I personally find that difficult to accommodate."

Can anyone tell me how people ceasing to believe in a Creator helps this boy?
 
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No, but it does mean it says what it says, and that alone shows your arguments about human choice and God's capacity to reach people to be false.
Just because the writer of the Bible thought something was true, that doesn't mean it is. A logically fallacious argument is no use, no matter who makes it.
 
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MrsFoundit

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It is wrong of God to send people to hell. That's why you have to defend him by saying that people send themselves there.

No I do not say God choosing to respect our choices is people sending themselves somewhere, I say it is a respect of choice. No defending of God required.
 
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No I do not say God choosing to respect our choices is people sending themselves somewhere, I say it is a respect of choice. No defending of God required.
Do you not realise you're arguing against yourself here, and invalidating your own points?
 
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MrsFoundit

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Just because the writer of the Bible thought something was true, that doesn't mean it is.

Your arguments about God, choice and failure depend on the Bible saying certain things it does not say, and meaning things it is not understood to mean by Christians on CF. This point depends only on what the Bible and CF Christians actually say. If my own points are invalid because the Bible is, yours are also invalid, since you have no basis for your claims about what God wants, and how God fails without it.
 
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Your arguments about God, choice and failure depend on the Bible saying certain things it does not say, and meaning things it is not understood to mean by Christians on CF. This point depends only on what the Bible and CF Christians actually say. If my own points are invalid because the Bible is, yours are also invalid, since you have no basis for your claims about what God wants, and how God fails without it.
Not at all. My arguments are based on nothing except what you say. All I've been doing is asking what you think about something, and then pointing out flaws in the arguments you make.
 
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