If you cannot believe the genesis account....

[jobob]

So where is there?

Christ said He was going to prepare a place for us.......THERE I assume

Sorry to be so easy to give up on you folks FB.....It just gets frustrating sometimes........Probly as frustrating when youre trying to explain to me and I dont seem to want to get it

 

[jobob]

In other words, you can't answer the question. Yet you will continue to claim that your interpretation of the bible is a literal one. Ok.

or more likely I just see you wasting time asking things I know yoiu dont really want an answer to.....

arikay, do be so arrogant as to think your opinions and judgements of my beliefs means squat to me........they dont friend....

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Christ said He was going to prepare a place for us.......THERE I assume

Sorry to be so easy to give up on you folks FB.....It just gets frustrating sometimes........Probly as frustrating when youre trying to explain to me and I dont seem to want to get it

So now you are the one making assumptions. I "assume" that "there" is heaven. Where is heaven that this light comes from? Does it really exist in our observable universe so that it's light could shine on the earth? I suppose the ancient Hebrews thought so. They thought they could build a tower to it after all. I think most people have a different opinion these days. Has the Hubble Telescope detected the light of heaven? Did this light blink on and off every 24 hours to create mornings and evenings before the sun?

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[jobob]

So now you are the one making assumptions. I "assume" that "there" is heaven. Where is heaven that this light comes from? Does it really exist in our observable universe so that it's light could shine on the earth? I suppose the ancient Hebrews thought so. They thought they could build a tower to it after all. I think most people have a different opinion these days. Has the Hubble Telescope detected the light of heaven? Did this light blink on and off every 24 hours to create mornings and evenings before the sun?

the frumious Bandersnatch

So you dont make assumptions that you dont know if theyre absolutlely true in science .....riiiiiiiight

I assume the earth was spinning one the first day when God separated the dark from the light.........that WOULD be the OBVIOUS CONCLUSION....

God could easily have made this light originate from a single point and with the earths rotation day and night were created.

But, THATS RIGHT, we're not allowed to draw conclusions unless theyre spelled out precisely in scripture for us dumb hillbilly hick YECers

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

So you dont make assumptions that you dont know if theyre absolutlely true in science .....riiiiiiiight

I assume the earth was spinning one the first day when God separated the dark from the light.........that WOULD be the OBVIOUS CONCLUSION....

God could easily have made this light originate from a single point and with the earths rotation day and night were created.

Sure God could have but why would He? Why would He need mornings and evenings? I suppose He could have kept plants alive for a day without the sun but then why make a world that looks like a succession of plant and animal life existed over eons. Then again why would He need rest? The story is clealy spelled out the way it is to justify spending the Sabbath on religious duties. At least it seem that way to me.

But, THATS RIGHT, we're not allowed to draw conclusions unless theyre spelled precisely in scripture for us dumb hillbilly hick YECers

If the shoe fits.....

You are the one claiming that scripture spells out exact literal truth. You don't seem to be very comfortable defending the precise details though.

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[jobob]

...........You don't seem to be very comfortable defending the precise details though.

the frumious Bandersnatch

Im not Apologist material..... Ill agree with that much...

not becuse i dont know the material tho.......cause i get frutrated and want to bury the hatchet.......right in a skull or two

not very christlike, eh?

 

[Arikay]

Yet you seem to "waste your time" on this thread. Since you have tried to answer my questions before, I don't think its because you don't think I want an answer but because you don't have one. I have also noticed you seem to go slightly Ad hom when you don't have an answer.

Anyways, the question stands to any other literalist who can answer it,
Since god never removed the snakes speaking ability why can't snakes talk?
If you claim that the snake was just a puppet of satan, then show mean the genesis passage that when read literally says this.
If you claim that the snake is satan, then you seem to be suggesting satan slithers on the ground and eats dirt.

or more likely I just see you wasting time asking things I know yoiu dont really want an answer to.....

arikay, do be so arrogant as to think your opinions and judgements of my beliefs means squat to me........they dont friend....

 

[the_cloaked_crusader]

OK. But I still say this is your intepretation of the text. I think most people agree that there is quite a bit of symbolism in Revelations.

Perhaps, but I take nearly all of it literally. I believe it is What it claims to be: a Revelation of what is going to happen in the end times.

I don't know if "evening" and "Morning" had as much to do with lighting as they did with time. I think God was telling us that he was referring to 24 hour days, not "epochs".

An interesting side-bar--I find it intriguing that God does not here mention "night", just evening and morning. this kind of reminds me of the work of John Ronald Reul Tolkein. In his work the Silmarillion there was a period of time in which Valinor (heaven) was lit by two trees: one with golden fruit and one with silver. Their lights waxed and waned, so that one was always in full light; occasionally they were equally bright, and then the "sunlight" and "moonlight" were mingled in a sort of evening (or morning, depending on which tree was waning and which was waxing). Perhaps This is what the heavenly lighting will be like, and perhaps it is what the pre-Sun light was.
[/being imaginative]

Feel free to disregard the preceding transmission, Starbase.

best of regards
the_cloaked_crusader

 

[jobob]

Since god never removed the snakes speaking ability why can't snakes talk?

Now YOU are adding to the scripture......WHERE does it say He gave them this ability......

I have however provided you with donkeys speaking thru divine help to show you how it could be possible for a being such as lucifer/Satan to have done so thru the snake...

Youre choice is to reject that ''evidence'' and remain ignorant.....

If you claim that the snake was just a puppet of satan, then show mean the genesis passage that when read literally says this.

Just as soon as you have provided ABSOLUTE PROOF that apes are a distant cousin...

If you claim that the snake is satan, then you seem to be suggesting satan slithers on the ground and eats dirt.

Just as in the donkeys example, the speech was given supernaturally.... 2+2 if you can add


I have read the scriptures, I know what they say and what i believe...
Are you so arrogant that you think I have to Prove to the likes of YOU to believe what it says myself..
Ive been around the faithless like you all my christian walk.
I have the likes of your type to thank for my dogmatism.

Every word you speak further convinces me of your blindness, and pushes me even closer to a more Calvanistic sort of belief.......

 

[MSBS]

Im not Apologist material..... Ill agree with that much...

not becuse i dont know the material tho.......cause i get frutrated and want to bury the hatchet.......right in a skull or two

not very christlike, eh?

I know how that feels. I have to remind myself from time to time that most of the people on here, even the most intransigent, are probably perfectly likeable and reasonable in everyday life. Anonymous discussions seem to bring out the worst in people some times. We can strive to be like Christ but even at our best we humans have long way to go.

 

[jobob]

I know how that feels. I have to remind myself from time to time that most of the people on here, even the most intransigent, are probably perfectly likeable and reasonable in everyday life. Anonymous discussions seem to bring out the worst in people some times. We can strive to be like Christ but even at our best we humans have long way to go.

i dont know anyone who doesnt like me in REAL life...
but I do manage to tick everyone off at times...

I have to avoid discussing the bible except with the love of my life and two friends that are pastors.....
Everyone else thinks Im TOO dogmatic....imagine that.....

 

[Arikay]

1) I know the snake has the ability to talk in the bible because it talks in the bible. Do you need me to provide verses of it speaking?
2) Yes you showed that it could be possible yet you have not shown that the bible says the snake was a puppet of satan.
3) and again with the Ad Hom.
4) This is going to go round and around, so I say unless you can bring something else to the table beyond conjecture and Ad hom, it can stop here.

Now YOU are adding to the scripture......WHERE does it say He gave them this ability......

I have however provided you with donkeys speaking thru divine help to show you how it could be possible for a being such as lucifer/Satan to have done so thru the snake...

Youre choice is to reject that ''evidence'' and remain ignorant.....


Just as soon as you have provided ABSOLUTE PROOF that apes are a distant cousin...



Just as in the donkeys example, the speech was given supernaturally.... 2+2 if you can add


I have read the scriptures, I know what they say and what i believe...
Are you so arrogant that you think I have to Prove to the likes of YOU to believe what it says myself..
Ive been around the faithless like you all my christian walk.
I have the likes of your type to thank for my dogmatism.

Every word you speak further convinces me of your blindness, and pushes me even closer to a more Calvanistic sort of belief.......

 

[jobob]

1) I know the snake has the ability to talk in the bible because it talks in the bible. Do you need me to provide verses of it speaking?
2) Yes you showed that it could be possible yet you have not shown that the bible says the snake was a puppet of satan.
3) and again with the Ad Hom.
4) This is going to go round and around, so I say unless you can bring something else to the table beyond conjecture and Ad hom, it can stop here.

Thank Goodness....it can stop here...
youre obviously not able to accept the ''evidence'' given making you as bad as you claim me to be......

 

[the_cloaked_crusader]

Arikay--
Allow me to quote myself.

Moreover, it is quite obvious that Christ did crush Satan's head, and that Satan did strike his heel. Therefore, this passage is referring to Christ as the woman's seed, and to Satan as the serpent. (It makes sense to me, at least . . .)

Whether the snake were posessed by Satan, or whether Satan simply appeared in the form of a snake, I don't know. But either one would explain the serpent's ability to talk.

best of regards
the_cloaked_crusader

 

[Arikay]

Why does this make me think of other debates with creationists?
•There is evidence for a young earth.
-Where?
•If you turn certain isotopes into plasma it increases their decay rate, showing that the earth is actually young.
-That has nothing to do with the dating method we are talking about. Again, show me the evidence.
•well its All around but im not going to show you because you don't want to know.
-Um, ok, suit yourself.


When dealing with scripture, it seems its only ment to be taken literaly and you aren't allowed to add anything to it only when it backs up the fundementalist claim. But when it doesn't quite back up the claim, its acceptable to make assumptions and reinterprete passages.

 

[Arikay]

I agree. However its not exactly a literal interpretation of the scripture. If we are allowed to claim that the snake was satan then we must also accept that satan physically slithers on the ground and eats dirt. If we are allowed to claim that satan was in control of the snake, then we are also allowed to add whatever we want to the scripture.
If we treat it all as symbolic, then we can treat a 24 hour day as symbolic as well.

If none of these are acceptable (the first would be the only acceptable one when reading the bible literally), then the question still remains as to why snakes can't talk.

Arikay--
Allow me to quote myself.
Whether the snake were posessed by Satan, or whether Satan simply appeared in the form of a snake, I don't know. But either one would explain the serpent's ability to talk.

best of regards
the_cloaked_crusader
[/size][/color][/font]

 

[Aduro Amnis]

Rather than syphoning 5 pages of this topic for the word Tween on a 56k connection, could someone tell me if Tween has replied yet ?

 

[the_cloaked_crusader]

There is a magor diference. My "reinterpretation" does not even seem to contradict the Bible. I don't "reinterpret" in a way that waters down the passage. I don't "reinterpret" in a way that makes it more acceptable to everyone. I just put two verses from diferent parts of the Bible together; and they fit naturally. I don't need to alter either one. That's not reinterpreting; that's just plain interpreting. I don't see what the problem is; to me it looks so simple. I thought this idea through for all of thirty seconds. I didn't "add anything" to it at all. I just rearranged a verse from the end to fit with a verse in the beginning. You can look them up yourself; they fit perfectly.



No, we don't have to do that. We find from other scripture that he prowls around looking for someone to devour, &c. That part of the prophecy simply states that Satan is thrown down from his former high position in the ranks of the angels. Basically it's saying, "You are hereby humiliated." It's symbolic in one way, but definately not to the extent you claim it would be.
I said that he either posessed the snake, or came in the form of a snake. The fact that Revelation refers to him as "the serpent of old" should tell us that this is a Biblicaly sound idea.

best of regards
the_cloaked_crusader

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I have read the scriptures, I know what they say and what i believe...
Are you so arrogant that you think I have to Prove to the likes of YOU to believe what it says myself..
Ive been around the faithless like you all my christian walk.
I have the likes of your type to thank for my dogmatism.

Come on jobob, if you don't want to back up your claims don't make them on a DEBATE board.

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Arikay]

So, if extra-genesis evidence that was supposably created by god, can be used to reinterpret the snake, then how come it is not acceptable to do the same with "days"?

I propose it has less to do with contradicting what god is telling us and more to do with contradicting what the reader believes.

There is a magor diference. My "reinterpretation" does not even seem to contradict the Bible. I don't "reinterpret" in a way that waters down the passage. I don't "reinterpret" in a way that makes it more acceptable to everyone. I just put two verses from diferent parts of the Bible together; and they fit naturally. I don't need to alter either one. That's not reinterpreting; that's just plain interpreting. I don't see what the problem is; to me it looks so simple. I thought this idea through for all of thirty seconds. I didn't "add anything" to it at all. I just rearranged a verse from the end to fit with a verse in the beginning. You can look them up yourself; they fit perfectly.



No, we don't have to do that. We find from other scripture that he prowls around looking for someone to devour, &c. That part of the prophecy simply states that Satan is thrown down from his former high position in the ranks of the angels. Basically it's saying, "You are hereby humiliated." It's symbolic in one way, but definately not to the extent you claim it would be.
I said that he either posessed the snake, or came in the form of a snake. The fact that Revelation refers to him as "the serpent of old" should tell us that this is a Biblicaly sound idea.

best of regards
the_cloaked_crusader