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If you aren't on God's side does that put you on satans side?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by ImAllLikeOkWaitWat, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it matters more to god or to you.
    I have a hard time comprehending a god being that petty.
     
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  2. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    At present the Jews have been blinded and the Message of the Gospel has been given to the

    “Hard time” ? No surprise..the things of God are foolishness to those that perish....how’ s that for “petty”
     
  3. RayJeena

    RayJeena Humble and proud of it. Supporter

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    There is definitely a 'family resemblance' among the three.

    Those within them might not necessarily see it, much like a biological family will sometimes wonder how those outside of it can see similarities in their appearance: "You look so much like your sister." "Really? I don't think I look like her at all".

    -
     
  4. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    @dlamberth doesn't the difference all come to down the Trinity and the Christian belief in a fallen world with forces of good and forces of evil? Both of those ideas originated in Second Temple Judaism at least 200 years before the birth of Jesus (if not even earlier). Rabbinical Judaism later excommunicated these ideas in the centuries following Jesus, but originally the Essenes and their theology were totally acceptable in Judaism.

    Here is an article on dualism in Judaism.
    Dualism
     
  5. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    I'm now wondering, because they do not have a Christian worldview of God, how the Jews fit into the claim voiced in the OP.
     
  6. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    There are a LOT of different religions that believe the same.
     
  7. Jane_the_Bane

    Jane_the_Bane Gaia's godchild

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    I'd say basically every religion starts out with the assumption that they are championing good,
    and basic humanitarian values have always been the same no matter what world view they are attached to.

    Seeing how the younger Abrahamic religions lent themselves to imperialist expansion (and how THIS is the main reason they're the most "successful" religions today), I'd say classic monotheism is quite problematic, to say the least.
     
  8. Arius

    Arius Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God gave us "Freedom of choice", so we have to choose one way or another.

    Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.
    45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
    47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
     
  9. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say it's the "freedom of choice" when dangling the carrot of heaven in front of people while pointing the gun of hell at their heads.
     
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  10. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    And that's how to miss the whole point of the Gospel.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    To add to my previous post, and in keeping with the spirit of Advent, here's the second O Antiphon with accompanied passages of Scripture.

    "With righteousness He shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth." Isaiah 11:4
    "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our ruler, the Lord is our king. He will save us." Isaiah 33:22

    O Adonai, et Dux domus Israel,
    qui Moysi in igne flammae rubi apparuisti,
    et ei in Sina legem dedisti:
    veni ad redimendum nos in brachio extento.

    O Lord, and leader of the House of Israel,
    who appeared to Moses in the fire of the burning bush,
    and gave him the law on Sinai:
    Come and redeem us with an outstretched arm.


    "The Lord is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble" Psalm 9:9
    "God will never forget the needy; the hope of the afflicted will never perish." Psalm 9:18
    "You have been a refuge for the poor, a refuge for the needy in their distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat." Isaiah 25:4

    As the One who made Himself present to Moses He is the just law-giver who rescues the oppressed people from the land of their captivity. He is the God who stands in the midst of the needy, and rises up on behalf of the poor, the hungry, the unloved, the marginalized, and the weak.

    During Advent we reflect on the great messianic hope of those from before in readying ourselves for Christmas, but we also reflect on the great day when, indeed, it can be said that the earth is full of the glory of the Lord and justice and peace flow like a river.

    We ready ourselves for that sacred feast of Christ's Nativity, that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And He shows Himself to be the One who stands beside the least of these.

    If we are paying attention then we have no excuse to say such a thing as "God is God because of His power", because that's entirely wrong.

    "Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though being in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied Himself, becoming a slave, born in human likeness. And being found in human form, humbled Himself, becoming obedient to the point of death--even death on a cross." Philippians 2:5-8

    We want "God" to be the supreme self expression of ourselves--a superman, the great power that is basically us, just really huge. And that's what makes God God. But that isn't how God actually shows Himself, God shows Himself in weakness, not in strength; humility, not in power. God shows us who He is by being nailed to a Roman cross.

    Missing that is to miss the whole point of the Gospel.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  12. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    If Satan had more power than God who would be ruling the universe? Gods power is what keeps Him in control .....the fact that He loved us enough to die for us and gave the way of salvation through the Gospel thAt Paul proclaimed....is where us bankrupt sinners lucked out..God bless you ,sir
     
  13. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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  14. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    So you think a mere creature could rule the universe?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  15. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    He already is “the god òf this world” I don’t know how big a stretch it would be to take on the universe.he is not a mere creature.satan is a extremely powerful fallen angel...thank God He is kept on a short leash.God bless
     
  16. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The "world" here isn't the planet earth. It refers to the system of worldly governance in which sin and death operate. Because as for the earth, "The earth is the LORD's and all therein."

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  17. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Quantum mechanics hints that there is an intelligent judgement that must be made for every action that occurs in the universe, from the smallest subatomic reactions to the collision of galaxies--there must be an intelligence that judges whether each event actually happens, or it cannot actually happen at all.

    Satan isn't doing that. From what Colossians 1 tells us, Satan can't even will his own continued existence...God is doing that.
     
  18. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    I may have only taken one college class in quantum mechanics and read (and understood) some of Hawking's books, but I'm sure it hints at no such thing.
     
  19. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Just an observation. I've never had any courses on quantum mechanics and at most have read American Scientist on the subject. I do know who Hawking is though. His name pops up in the science articles I read. So I don't know anything about quantum mechanics and understand even less. But I do think it possible for intelligence to come in many forms. For instance, a rock will fracture, crumble or break when hit with a large force. Is that a type of intelligence? The various forces that holds galaxies together, is that intelligence? The forces within the evolutionary processes, do they come together to form a type of intelligence that creates new life form? In my way of looking at life with all of those examples, I have to say Yes!. Forces of nature interact in different way and create intelligence along the way. So it's within the window of that perspective that RDKirk's post that you quoted makes a lot of sense to me.
     
  20. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    I come from a religion that focuses on how cool natural processes are. And if you were going to look for evidence of a deity that can't/won't directly communicate, then nature is where I would expect to find it. But what you mention above are simply natural processes, and as amazing as they are, I don't see how they imply any third party intelligence. They are, basically mechanical.

    It's a pet peeve of mine when people prop their window of belief open with quantum mechanics. They know their audience can't do a 5 minute google search to show them wrong, and chances are no one is going to put in the time and effort to get a sufficient understanding. I've seen QM used to justify everything from telepathy and psychic powers to ghosts and gods.
     
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