If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

Thess said:

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

Click to expand...

Thess said:

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

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Thess said:

I've yet to hear of house church. I'll look into it. The other option is to just get a group going on our own.

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Thess said:

I've yet to hear of house church. I'll look into it. The other option is to just get a group going on our own.

Click to expand...

Thess said:

This is cool. You're the first to actually teach this doctrine in this thread. You wrote that baptism actually saves us, but only after repentance. Ok, I hear you. So if this is true, let's test it. Here is my test: if your teaching is true, can a person be saved in the middle of the desert where there is no water to be found?

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Thess said:

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

Click to expand...

Thess said:

I hear what you're saying. So if a person is not on their death bed, but a person is led to possess effectual belief, they have made their full submission, they are absolutely ready to obey, they already feel confident and they want to share the Good News exactly as they have been taught....but man, I'm going to hell lest I get struck my a meteor. There is no water; I came up short.

Nah. My God doesn't play games like that. My God is so Power that He has created the entire universe. His Power is so intense, He has no need for word games or phrase games. He is clear and easy to understand.

AFTER the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles at Cornelius's house, Peter asked if any of the Jews had any objection if the Gentiles received a water baptism. That's a strange thing to request, since it's an absolute requirement, and no lives are in jeopardy for some special one-off rule. AFTER Philip led the Eunuch to Christ, it wasn't Philip that said, "Look. Here is water for the required, life-saving baptism that you need. Please, stop the chariot! Here's extra money for the delay. This baptism must be done now." No, that isn't what happened at all. The Eunuch suggested that he get baptized and not Philip, and actually, the Eunuch put it to Philip in question form.

If these passages don't compel you, then there's nothing left for me to say. I have time for reasonable discussion, so please, let's not discard scripture. I hate it when we do that, here. We toss around God's Word as if He doesn't notice. He does. Yikes.

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Thess said:

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

Click to expand...

Thess said:

Thank you for sharing, but if you could give some details about whom I have disrespected as well as details about the broad paintbrush that I use. It would make things clear if you could show me whom I have sinned against and what the sin was/is.

As for who taught me that water baptism saves, this concept comes up throughout this forum, and finally with someone in this thread who is teaching the doctrine. So I'm unsure of why this is such a mystery to you.

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Thess said:

Just to be clear, if a person doesn't get wet, they cannot go to heaven?

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Thess said:

No, I'm not being rude when I wrote what I wrote. Those that are being rude and cruel are the ones that I am describing. If you knew my story of molestations, being beaten with garden hoses, having marijuana grown in my closet as a little boy by my father, having pastors, elders, preachers wives and preachers kids and even missionaries in my family, yet they do not possess love. These people, these exact people watch my parents pay the piano player at my church, who turned out to be gay and "wanted me", and no one did anything to help my lazy parents or myself. As of today, my entire "Christian" sets of family have completely abandoned me. All former friends have abandoned me for my faith, rejecting that I was found by God just being dying. I have no one, not one person in my life. More than this, I've yet to ever meet a single Christian that modeled the kind of person that we are to be as written in scripture. I'm not seeing things they way you are and I'm not sure why. Again, explain my sins that I have committed, here, and I'll make full amends and more.

The concept is "hidden". Christians life by a "secret gospel". Think about that for a few minutes. I don't think that my message reached your heart/ability to understand.

I do not believe that 100% all "Christians" or churches are disqualified, but it sure appears that way to me. Or, have you not read everything that I've written, here? If you had, these questions and charges that you have of me would be answered.

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