If there was proved to be wrong...

[Vance]

I am not sure about modern fundamentalists, but their philosophical counterparts in the middle ages sure knew how to wreak a bit of havoc in the name of Jesus.

 

[California Tim]

I am not sure about modern fundamentalists, but their philosophical counterparts in the middle ages sure knew how to wreak a bit of havoc in the name of Jesus.

With all due respect, they were not fundamentalists so much as they were heretics. The corrupt church leaders adopted the heretical teachings and promoted anti-biblical conquest in the name of Christ. It could hardly be stated that the Bible condoned or justified such behavior, therefore they were not "fundamentally" Christian.

 

[Vance]

With all due respect, they were not fundamentalists so much as they were heretics. The corrupt church leaders adopted the heretical teachings and promoted anti-biblical conquest in the name of Christ. It could hardly be stated that the Bible condoned or justified such behavior, therefore they were not "fundamentally" Christian.

By philosophical predecessors, I am referring to those within the Church who decided that they had a corner on the truth, based on a very narrow set of requirements for Truth. We had well-meaning Christians so sure of their interpretation of Scripture and doctrine that they actually killed their fellow Christians for believing something different than they do. How many Christians were burned at the stake by those who were wholly and entirely convinced of their own reading of the Bible?

 

[gluadys]

Very little, and I sincerely mean very little gets my dander up like this kind of misrepresentation - especially by a brother or sister in Christ. Firstly, before I go making a fool of myself, perhaps you could share some examples of "fundie christians" out killing for a "good cause" and in support of written directive found in the Gospel.

David Koresh, Jim Jones, people who bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors. And that is without getting into the blood-soaked history of "Christian Europe" and the "Christian" settlement of America.

P.S. I don't care how strongly you feel about abortion. Two wrongs don't make a right, and these things have happened.

I can also tell you from personal experience working in a Christian (I stress Christian, evangelical Christian, definitely not feminist) emergency shelter for women, that I met all kinds of women from all kinds of backgrounds needing shelter for all kinds of reasons. But the only young women who needed shelter because their own parents had turned their backs on her and kicked her out of their home were those who came from Christian fundamentalist homes. Some of these girls were as young as 13.

I wonder how many didn't make it to a shelter. And I wondered then and I still wonder now what kind of "Christian" love puts a 13 year old out on the street with no resources.

I know these are extreme examples. I know that not everyone with an extremely conservative theology is like that. But I also know that whenever these extremes crop up they almost invariably crop up in a fundamentalist culture. And that Christian fundamentalism is just as prone to it as fundamentalism in any other faith or idealogy.

 

[herev]

sorry for the slow response, I've been busy

So the Big Bang theory, Abiogenesis, and the Evolutionary theory are all theories where modern day scientists are all giving God the credit? I was really unware that all these scientists were God believers.

No, the Big bang theory, Abiogenesis, and the Evolutionary theory are NOT giving God credit--what we've been saying all along is that THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD! Edison, Einstein, Whitley, Westinghouse, none of them gave credit to God, but we still have not said their theories were AGAINST God.

My statement wasn't intended as an insult. I believe everyone, including Christians are rebellious against God. Maybe you think differently and disagree with the fact that we continue to sin, and our flesh hates God.

No, I do not believe differently, but your comment SEEMED to suggest that these theories were because of rebellion, yet they have nothing to do with God, not in favor of, nor rebellion against.

 

[herev]

What you call confidence, we call faith. You choose science to lead you in how you are suppose to read the scriptures, and I choose the church fathers. YOu like the new, I prefer the old.

Too bad the Apostles didn't have the geologists then so they could it get right, all they had was Jesus Christ.

this is what I mean, MLML, it's the assumptions that are so wrong about us that are so insulting. If just once you would listen to us and what we say instead of judging us, you might find more peace here

 

[Vance]

But Herev, what we are REALLY saying is too difficult to respond to. It is MUCH easier to just maintain this strawman version of TE's so that they can fall back on their standard, even if they know that are incorrect, formulas when stuck.

We can tell them 1,000 times that it has nothing at all to do with preferring science to theological considerations in interpreting Scripture, but when pushed into a corner, and that is all they have left, they will still throw it back out in desperation.

Even the most cogent and insightful among the YEC's (with very few exceptions) will eventually resort to this underhandedness when all else fails.

 

[California Tim]

David Koresh, Jim Jones, people who bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors. And that is without getting into the blood-soaked history of "Christian Europe" and the "Christian" settlement of America.

P.S. I don't care how strongly you feel about abortion. Two wrongs don't make a right, and these things have happened.

I can also tell you from personal experience working in a Christian (I stress Christian, evangelical Christian, definitely not feminist) emergency shelter for women, that I met all kinds of women from all kinds of backgrounds needing shelter for all kinds of reasons. But the only young women who needed shelter because their own parents had turned their backs on her and kicked her out of their home were those who came from Christian fundamentalist homes. Some of these girls were as young as 13.

I wonder how many didn't make it to a shelter. And I wondered then and I still wonder now what kind of "Christian" love puts a 13 year old out on the street with no resources.

I know these are extreme examples. I know that not everyone with an extremely conservative theology is like that. But I also know that whenever these extremes crop up they almost invariably crop up in a fundamentalist culture. And that Christian fundamentalism is just as prone to it as fundamentalism in any other faith or idealogy.

While I did not believe his message, and actually doubt his salvation, Koresh was the one killed as I recalled after being attacked. Jim Jones --- well if you are about to claim he was a fundamentalist Christian, then ......ahh - forget it. We are too far apart to even communicate reasonably. I can hardly believe the lengths (or depths) some will go to in order to disparage the name of Christ.

 

[Vance]

Jim Jones was an Assembly of God minister, and definitely labeled himself a Fundamentalist Christian. Pointing this out is not disparaging the name of Christ in the least. Do you think that fundamentalism is synonymous with the name of Christ? Would you say that pointing out that certain Pope's were corrupt is disparaging the name of Christ?

 

[herev]

While I did not believe his message, and actually doubt his salvation, Koresh was the one killed as I recalled after being attacked. Jim Jones --- well if you are about to claim he was a fundamentalist Christian, then ......ahh - forget it. We are too far apart to even communicate reasonably. I can hardly believe the lengths (or depths) some will go to in order to disparage the name of Christ.

Hi Tim, help me understand one thing if you will. AS this is a strong accusation against gluadys, I'd like to know exactly how you think what she said disparages the name of Christ.
Please PM me if you like, but I'd like an answer to that

 

[gluadys]

While I did not believe his message, and actually doubt his salvation, Koresh was the one killed as I recalled after being attacked.

And took a lot of people with him who could have been moved out of harm's way. It is one thing to decide to be a martyr oneself. It is quite another to impose martyrdom on others, especially those too young to make a competent decision for themselves.