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If there is "no evidence" for evolution...

Warden_of_the_Storm

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Nope. Has nothing to do with religion, but rather the truth of God. Completely different things.

Yeah, that's called religion.

Are you willing to take up the challenge of reading and studying the Bible and I will read and study a scientific article about Evolution?
I am not giving a timeline in which to complete this, but are you willing to learn about the other side? I am.

Why should I? Why does this have to be a tit-for-tat kind of thing? An acceptance of evolution does not mean that someone doesn't accept the Bible. They aren't mutually exclusive deals.
 
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Speedwell

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Nope. Has nothing to do with religion, but rather the truth of God. Completely different things.
If it has to do with a particular interpretation of the book of Genesis, then it has to do with religion.

Are you willing to take up the challenge of reading and studying the Bible and I will read and study a scientific article about Evolution?
I am not giving a timeline in which to complete this, but are you willing to learn about the other side? I am.
An empty offer. I think it is safe to say that most of us on the "evolution" side of this debate know at least as much, if not more, about the Bible as you do.
 
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tas8831

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I am not the one claiming that scientific journals teach complete truth (especially about Evolution), just because it is "peer reviewed".

Then what are they publishing?

Sometimes truth, sometimes lies.


Was that not YOU that claimed 'sometimes lies' are published in peer reviewed science?

The burden of proof is not on me.
When you claim - and that IS a claim - that scientific articles sometimes contain "lies", yes, yes the burden of proof IS on you!

Provide for me a scientific journal article proving evolution to be truth, based on peer review, and I will read it.

I forget now who originally posted these on this forum, but I keep it in my archives because it offers a nice 'linear' progression of testing a methodology and then applying it:

The tested methodology:

Science 25 October 1991:
Vol. 254. no. 5031, pp. 554 - 558

Gene trees and the origins of inbred strains of mice

WR Atchley and WM Fitch

Extensive data on genetic divergence among 24 inbred strains of mice provide an opportunity to examine the concordance of gene trees and species trees, especially whether structured subsamples of loci give congruent estimates of phylogenetic relationships. Phylogenetic analyses of 144 separate loci reproduce almost exactly the known genealogical relationships among these 24 strains. Partitioning these loci into structured subsets representing loci coding for proteins, the immune system and endogenous viruses give incongruent phylogenetic results. The gene tree based on protein loci provides an accurate picture of the genealogical relationships among strains; however, gene trees based upon immune and viral data show significant deviations from known genealogical affinities.

======================

Science, Vol 255, Issue 5044, 589-592

Experimental phylogenetics: generation of a known phylogeny

DM Hillis, JJ Bull, ME White, MR Badgett, and IJ Molineux
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Although methods of phylogenetic estimation are used routinely in comparative biology, direct tests of these methods are hampered by the lack of known phylogenies. Here a system based on serial propagation of bacteriophage T7 in the presence of a mutagen was used to create the first completely known phylogeny. Restriction-site maps of the terminal lineages were used to infer the evolutionary history of the experimental lines for comparison to the known history and actual ancestors. The five methods used to reconstruct branching pattern all predicted the correct topology but varied in their predictions of branch lengths; one method also predicts ancestral restriction maps and was found to be greater than 98 percent accurate.

==================================

Science, Vol 264, Issue 5159, 671-677

Application and accuracy of molecular phylogenies

DM Hillis, JP Huelsenbeck, and CW Cunningham
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Molecular investigations of evolutionary history are being used to study subjects as diverse as the epidemiology of acquired immune deficiency syndrome and the origin of life. These studies depend on accurate estimates of phylogeny. The performance of methods of phylogenetic analysis can be assessed by numerical simulation studies and by the experimental evolution of organisms in controlled laboratory situations. Both kinds of assessment indicate that existing methods are effective at estimating phylogenies over a wide range of evolutionary conditions, especially if information about substitution bias is used to provide differential weightings for character transformations.



We can ASSUME that the results of an application of those methods have merit.


Application of the tested methodology:

Implications of natural selection in shaping 99.4% nonsynonymous DNA identity between humans and chimpanzees: Enlarging genus Homo

"Here we compare ≈90 kb of coding DNA nucleotide sequence from 97 human genes to their sequenced chimpanzee counterparts and to available sequenced gorilla, orangutan, and Old World monkey counterparts, and, on a more limited basis, to mouse. The nonsynonymous changes (functionally important), like synonymous changes (functionally much less important), show chimpanzees and humans to be most closely related, sharing 99.4% identity at nonsynonymous sites and 98.4% at synonymous sites. "



Mitochondrial Insertions into Primate Nuclear Genomes Suggest the Use of numts as a Tool for Phylogeny

"Moreover, numts identified in gorilla Supercontigs were used to test the human–chimp–gorilla trichotomy, yielding a high level of support for the sister relationship of human and chimpanzee."



A Molecular Phylogeny of Living Primates

"Once contentiously debated, the closest human relative of chimpanzee (Pan) within subfamily Homininae (Gorilla, Pan, Homo) is now generally undisputed. The branch forming the Homo andPanlineage apart from Gorilla is relatively short (node 73, 27 steps MP, 0 indels) compared with that of thePan genus (node 72, 91 steps MP, 2 indels) and suggests rapid speciation into the 3 genera occurred early in Homininae evolution. Based on 54 gene regions, Homo-Pan genetic distance range from 6.92 to 7.90×10−3 substitutions/site (P. paniscus and P. troglodytes, respectively), which is less than previous estimates based on large scale sequencing of specific regions such as chromosome 7[50]. "



Catarrhine phylogeny: noncoding DNA evidence for a diphyletic origin of the mangabeys and for a human-chimpanzee clade.

"The Superfamily Hominoidea for apes and humans is reduced to family Hominidae within Superfamily Cercopithecoidea, with all living hominids placed in subfamily Homininae; and (4) chimpanzees and humans are members of a single genus, Homo, with common and bonobo chimpanzees placed in subgenus H. (Pan) and humans placed in subgenus H. (Homo). It may be noted that humans and chimpanzees are more than 98.3% identical in their typical nuclear noncoding DNA and probably more than 99.5% identical in the active coding nucleotide sequences of their functional nuclear genes (Goodman et al., 1989, 1990). In mammals such high genetic correspondence is commonly found between sibling species below the generic level but not between species in different genera."
 
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tas8831

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If it has to do with a particular interpretation of the book of Genesis, then it has to do with religion.

An empty offer. I think it is safe to say that most of us on the "evolution" side of this debate know at least as much, if not more, about the Bible as you do.


Indeed. As many on the evolution side are Christians, and many WERE Christians but became non-believers via study of the bible, I would agree.
 
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betterorworse

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Is it safe to say that science isn't the maker of what is, only an explorer/enthusiast, of what already is?

To put science(playing hide n go seek), against God, is like a built object saying to it's master, "you are wrong, listen to me instead."
 
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Speedwell

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Is it safe to say that science isn't the maker of what is, only an explorer/enthusiast, of what already is?

To put science(playing hide n go seek), against God, is like a built object saying to it's master, "you are wrong, listen to me instead."
Science can only tell us how it was made, not who or why.
 
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tas8831

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science?

I prefer to call truth, Truth.
Sounds more like you put more trust in the superstitious ramblings of stone age middle eastern numerologists than anything else.
 
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