If there is no evidence for creation...

[AV1611VET]

An artist's painting of the newly discovered Gigantoraptor dinosaur...

Hmmm --- no roads though. I guess he forgot to paint those in?

 

[Danyc]

Hmmm --- no roads though. I guess he forgot to paint those in?

And why do early ancestors of the roadrunner need roads, pray tell? Besides the trivial fact that the name is roadrunner.

Surely you don't believe that early roadrunners must have had roads to survive...?

 

[keith99]

?

Please take note that billions and billions, now, and past, have believed in God and the Christ. There must be some reason why we believe in it, no?

Far more believe in the Hindu Gods. Should I Believe in them?

Other faiths have their God in the flesh that I could go and see. Isn't that a better reason to believe in their faith? There God is here! I could touch him.

 

[coyoteBR]

Hmmm --- no roads though. I guess he forgot to paint those in?

His kind of argument can bring problems to the creationism side, too.
Adam named all the creatures, right? So, how come the anteater received this name, if there was no death before fall?

And the black widow, too. Without death, frow where came the concept of "widow"?

And in a sinless world, how can one be named "sloth"?

Boy, can I get more silly?

 

[keith99]

Ok, first off, I'm am not going to be able to totally disprove Evolution....If I did that, I'd be famous...because I would have just put down a popular theory down the drain lol. I don't think that's going to happen by myself. But here ya go, reply back when you're done with the following:

1. Irreducible Complexity in microbiological processes.

2. Polonium-218 Halos in primordial granite

3. Astronomical probabilities calculated as necessary for the simplest proteins to form (not enough time).

4. Fossil Record

5. Existence of information more complicated than a computer language encoded in DNA requires an author.

6. Genetics, i.e. losses always involved in mutations, fatality rate when mutations occur.

7. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

Is this a list of Prats?

 

[keith99]

Run, rabbit, run....

What a farce! What you fail to address is that the light CONTINUES TO COME to the earth! And it does so with a constant velocity! So, with a simple calculation, I can see that the light I see NOW, TODAY, emanating from that distant star MUST have originated billions of years ago. Your ridiculous image of your god taking an instantaneous 'snapshot' and zapping it to us at the moment of creation DOESN'T explain why we CONTINUE to see that light streaming to us now!

Learn some science.......

But of course God could make everything work, looking just as if everything was billions of years old, yet really created yesterday!

Of course that idea makes all science worthless as God could have done anything and made it look however he wanted.

But the point already mentioned in htis thread and elsewhere is more telling . Just what kind of God would do this and then hold it against men that they believe the misleading evidence He created? To me it seems far more moral to oppose such a God as best one can.

BTW I do not believe this is an accurate depiction of the Christian God, though it would seem to be an accurate depiction of the God of SOME creationists.

 

[gaara4158]

If you believe in evolution, please explain where Geococcyx californianus came from, when there weren't any roads yet.

you there! i've been waiting for you. answer the OP.

 

[AV1611VET]

you there! i've been waiting for you. answer the OP.

Okay.

...then why should we believe it? Because the Bible said so? That begs the question, why should we believe the Bible?

The Bible is God's Autobiography.

It is the only Writing on the face of the earth that got here supernaturally. No other writing even comes close.

Consider these facts:

1. Written over a period of 1500 years.
2. In 3 languages, on 3 continents.
3. By some 40+ subauthors.
4. Who had various vocations from husbandmen to fig pickers to kings.
5. And under a variety of circumstances from peace to rebellion to war.
6. In freedom and in captivity.
7. By the rich and famous, as well as the poor and downtrodden.

And yet, despite all the above variables, It fits together like a hand in a glove, as if It had one single Author.

And here's the kicker --- It generated a nation of people who, by all practical purposes, should not be in existence today, and even wrote the history of their nation in advance.

Consider also the mathematical (divine?) layout of the Old Testament today:

The Old Testament consists of 39 books, arranged as follows:

• 17 [historical] --- 5 [poetical] --- 17 [prophetical]

Further subdivided as follows:

• 5 [books of Moses] --- 12 [books of history]
• 5 [books of poetry]
• 5 [books by major prophets] --- 12 [books by minor prophets]

Note: in the five books by the major prophets, you have Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel.

Let's look at this "fulcrum":

Book of Lamentations consists of 5 chapters, as follows:

• Chapter 1 = 22 verses
• Chapter 2 = 22 verses
• Chapter 3 = 66 verses
• Chapter 4 = 22 verses
• Chapter 5 = 22 verses

The two major prophets before Lamentations are pre-Caanan writings.

The two major prophets after Lamentations are post-Caanan.

And speaking of Canaan, we can further break the 12 historical and 12 prophetical books down into 9 + 3 by considering pre and post-Canaan writings.

Perfect mathematical divine balance in just the Old Testament alone.

And the Bible's preservation over the centuries? I won't even go there.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Okay. The Bible is God's Autobiography.

Is a ghost written book actually technically an "autobiography"?

It is the only Writing on the face of the earth that got here supernaturally. No other writing even comes close.

How can you prove it is "supernatural"? How do you know there wasn't some perfectly natural explanation for the items you list? For instance, is it more likely that a prophecy isn't actually a prophecy but is something someone who worships said book wants to be a prophecy so they search for some "interpretation" to make the prophecy a prophecy.

Consider these facts:

1. Written over a period of 1500 years.
2. In 3 languages, on 3 continents.
3. By some 40+ subauthors.
4. Who had various vocations from husbandmen to fig pickers to kings.

Which kings actually penned biblical books? Can you prove they wrote the books you attribute to them? How? For instance, why are the stories supposedly centered around the time of David more like the style of much later Assyrian court literature as might have been the mode during a much later monarch? Why do these stories mention locations of more importance during later eras? (I recommend the book "David and Solomon" by Finkelstein and Silber for a more thorough examination of the archaeology of the David and Solomonic kingdoms, it's been a while since I read it, so I don't have that many factoids in my head right now).

But in general is it more reasonable to assume that the strangeness of the Bible is due to something supernatural (of which few of us have any real experience) or the organic development of a codex of books cobbled together over a long period of time to serve a variety of political, social and religious agendas? (Another recommendation: "Who Wrote the Bible?", by Friedman, a neat summary of textual criticism and a possible set of hypotheses.)

Personally when I see a claim that has no relationship to anything I am familiar with (the supernatural) and it is set against a more prosaic and reasonable natural explanation I'd have to say that I think the evidence will have to be overwhelming for me to err on the side of the "supernatural" explanation.

And yet, despite all the above variables, It fits together like a hand in a glove, as if It had one single Author.

Sorry I didn't quite catch that. The one author idea would be nice if it weren't for the "doublets", the changing aspects of the theology, the contradictory genealogies, the variant messages that ultimately lead to a number of different strains of "Christianity", especially apparent at or near the beginning eras of the faith itself!

Consider also the mathematical (divine?) layout of the Old Testament today:

Oh goody! NUMEROLOGY!

The Old Testament consists of 39 books, arranged as follows:

• 17 [historical] --- 5 [poetical] --- 17 [prophetical]

WOW! 17-5-17. That's freaky! You know those are 3 prime numbers! And if you subtract 5 from 17 you get 12 which isn't a prime! Oh this is getting deeper!

Further subdivided as follows:

• 5 [books of Moses] --- 12 [books of history]
• 5 [books of poetry]
• 5 [books by major prophets] --- 12 [books by minor prophets]

Note: in the five books by the major prophets, you have Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel. Let's look at this "fulcrum":

Oh there's some 5's and 12's in there...you know what they add up to! 17. Ooooooohh.

Book of Lamentations consists of 5 chapters, as follows:

• Chapter 1 = 22 verses
• Chapter 2 = 22 verses
• Chapter 3 = 66 verses
• Chapter 4 = 22 verses
• Chapter 5 = 22 verses

22's and a 66! The 22's add up to 88 and the 66 is 22 less than the 88! This is amazing! I'm beginning to rethink my atheism!

But where's the 17's? I'm missing a 17!

And speaking of Canaan, we can further break the 12 historical and 12 prophetical books down into 9 + 3 by considering pre and post-Canaan writings.

YES! 9 + 3 DOES equal 12! It's...it's amazing!

Perfect mathematical divine balance in just the Old Testament alone.

BEHOLD THE MIGHTY BALANCE OF 17!

(Did you know that 42 divided by 17 is 2.47 (rounded to 3 digits) and 2.47 divided by 2 is 1.235 (rounded to 4 digits) and that's only 0.001 away from 1.234! And 3 x 4 = 12, which is 5 away from 17.

Woah!)

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Okay. The Bible is God's Autobiography.

It is the only Writing on the face of the earth that got here supernaturally. No other writing even comes close.

Consider these facts:

1. Written over a period of 1500 years.
2. In 3 languages, on 3 continents.
3. By some 40+ subauthors.
4. Who had various vocations from husbandmen to fig pickers to kings.
5. And under a variety of circumstances from peace to rebellion to war.
6. In freedom and in captivity.
7. By the rich and famous, as well as the poor and downtrodden.

And yet, despite all the above variables, It fits together like a hand in a glove, as if It had one single Author.

And here's the kicker --- It generated a nation of people who, by all practical purposes, should not be in existence today, and even wrote the history of their nation in advance.

Aggressive Cat is agressive, Self-Fulfilling Prophecy is self fulfilling. Fascinating.

Consider also the mathematical (divine?) layout of the Old Testament today:

The Old Testament consists of 39 books, arranged as follows:

• 17 [historical] --- 5 [poetical] --- 17 [prophetical]

Further subdivided as follows:

• 5 [books of Moses] --- 12 [books of history]
• 5 [books of poetry]
• 5 [books by major prophets] --- 12 [books by minor prophets]

Note: in the five books by the major prophets, you have Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel.

Let's look at this "fulcrum":

Book of Lamentations consists of 5 chapters, as follows:

• Chapter 1 = 22 verses
• Chapter 2 = 22 verses
• Chapter 3 = 66 verses
• Chapter 4 = 22 verses
• Chapter 5 = 22 verses

The two major prophets before Lamentations are pre-Caanan writings.

The two major prophets after Lamentations are post-Caanan.

And speaking of Canaan, we can further break the 12 historical and 12 prophetical books down into 9 + 3 by considering pre and post-Canaan writings.

Perfect mathematical divine balance in just the Old Testament alone.

Unless you think it was beyond the grasp of the Bible's writers to add and divide two-digit numbers, I don't see your point.

And the Bible's preservation over the centuries? I won't even go there.

You better don't, or someone might bring up the Quran's preservation.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

Okay. The Bible is God's Autobiography.

It is the only Writing on the face of the earth that got here supernaturally. No other writing even comes close.

Consider these facts:

1. Written over a period of 1500 years.
2. In 3 languages, on 3 continents.
3. By some 40+ subauthors.
4. Who had various vocations from husbandmen to fig pickers to kings.
5. And under a variety of circumstances from peace to rebellion to war.
6. In freedom and in captivity.
7. By the rich and famous, as well as the poor and downtrodden.

And yet, despite all the above variables, It fits together like a hand in a glove, as if It had one single Author.

And here's the kicker --- It generated a nation of people who, by all practical purposes, should not be in existence today, and even wrote the history of their nation in advance.

Consider also the mathematical (divine?) layout of the Old Testament today:

The Old Testament consists of 39 books, arranged as follows:

• 17 [historical] --- 5 [poetical] --- 17 [prophetical]

Further subdivided as follows:

• 5 [books of Moses] --- 12 [books of history]
• 5 [books of poetry]
• 5 [books by major prophets] --- 12 [books by minor prophets]

Note: in the five books by the major prophets, you have Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel.

Let's look at this "fulcrum":

Book of Lamentations consists of 5 chapters, as follows:

• Chapter 1 = 22 verses
• Chapter 2 = 22 verses
• Chapter 3 = 66 verses
• Chapter 4 = 22 verses
• Chapter 5 = 22 verses

The two major prophets before Lamentations are pre-Caanan writings.

The two major prophets after Lamentations are post-Caanan.

And speaking of Canaan, we can further break the 12 historical and 12 prophetical books down into 9 + 3 by considering pre and post-Canaan writings.

Perfect mathematical divine balance in just the Old Testament alone.

And the Bible's preservation over the centuries? I won't even go there.

See kids, this is what happens to you when you start worshiping a book instead of the God the book talks about.

Just say no to idolatry.

 

[mpok1519]

av >> numerology? Doesnt the Bible say to steer awya from that stuff?


and you shouldnt worship the Bible.....thats bad....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And here's the kicker --- It generated a nation of people who, by all practical purposes, should not be in existence today, and even wrote the history of their nation in advance.

Hey, I am here

 

[Vene]

You better don't, or someone might bring up the Quran's preservation.

No, better to use the Bhagavad Gita. Hinduism is older than Christianity, Islam is younger.

 

[thaumaturgy]

No, better to use the Bhagavad Gita. Hinduism is older than Christianity, Islam is younger.

But how many times does the number 17 show up in relation to the Bhagavad Gita?

But in the immortal words of the great one:

"Buy the new Bhagavad Gita
Do the pranayama 'til your spine gets sore
I'll tell you for free
'Cause God told me
We checked it with the Pope and so we all agree
I'm on my knees, one question please
Will the real God please sit down?"

-TR "Eastern Intrigue"

​

 

[Vene]

But how many times does the number 17 show up in relation to the Bhagavad Gita?

But in the immortal words of the great one:

"Buy the new Bhagavad Gita
Do the pranayama 'til your spine gets sore
I'll tell you for free
'Cause God told me
We checked it with the Pope and so we all agree
I'm on my knees, one question please
Will the real God please sit down?"

-TR "Eastern Intrigue"

​

Beats me, probably as much as it appears in the Bible. Numbers are easy to manipulate, it just may require some highly contorted reasoning. Not that it matters when you've already decided that you are right no matter what.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

But how many times does the number 17 show up in relation to the Bhagavad Gita?

Who care? All followers of the TRUE RELIGION know that 42 is the only significant number as you obviously know from your previous post. The evidence mounts!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who care? All followers of the TRUE RELIGION know that 42 is the only significant number as you obviously know from your previous post. The evidence mounts!

WOW! Ressurection occurs 42 times in the New Covenant

Strong's Number G386 matches the Greek ἀνάστασις (anastasis).
AV — resurrection 39, rising again 1, that should rise 1, raised to life again + 1537 1 42 TIMES in NT.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 2:34 And blesses them, Simon, and said toward Mariam, the mother of Him, "Lo, this-one is set/lying for the Falling and Ressurection/ana-stasin <386> in many to-the Israel, and into a Sign spoken against"-- [Ezekiel 37 "valley of the bones"]

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/ana-stasiV <386>, the First.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by AV1611VET
Okay. The Bible is God's Autobiography................

See kids, this is what happens to you when you start worshiping a book instead of the God the book talks about.

Just say no to idolatry.

Or just one Version/Translation of it.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

WOW! Ressurection occurs 42 times in the New Covenant

Strong's Number G386 matches the Greek &#7936;&#957;&#8049;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#962; (anastasis).
AV — resurrection 39, rising again 1, that should rise 1, raised to life again + 1537 1 42 TIMES in NT.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 2:34 And blesses them, Simon, and said toward Mariam, the mother of Him, "Lo, this-one is set/lying for the Falling and Ressurection/ana-stasin <386> in many to-the Israel, and into a Sign spoken against"-- [Ezekiel 37 "valley of the bones"]

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/ana-stasiV <386>, the First.

So long and thanks for all the