If the soul forms at conception, then how do twins, triplets, etc. factor in?

[Radrook]

If certainty is involved then faith is redundant.

Faith is redundant if we define it contrary to how the Bible does.
Please read the Biblical definition in all translations I provided carefully.

God Bless!

 

[Radrook]

I don,t think the soul forms at conception,

rather the soul always was, a body is prepared for each soul.

Why do you believe this?

 

[Robban]

Why do you believe this?

I have not nailed it down for good, but still in the research process, just out of wonder and awe.

Also the reincarnation of the soul,
it can descend many times into a, for the purpose prepared body.

I am not sure if Christianity puts much into "Soul"
it is more about "Spirit".

But the spirit is a part of the soul.

 

[Radrook]

I have not nailed it down for good, but still in the research process, just out of wonder and awe.

Also the reincarnation of the soul,
it can descend many times into a, for the purpose prepared body.

I am not sure if Christianity puts much into "Soul"
it is more about "Spirit".

But the spirit is a part of the soul.

So it's just a concept that appeals to you. I assume that your research is biblically based?

 

[Robban]

So it's just a concept that appeals to you. I assume that your research is biblically based?

In these matters within Judaism, tradition is the authority.

 

[Radrook]

Newborns have distinct personalities and are their own people. I see this as I care for newborns on the postpartum floor. Even the preemies have a personality that is unique to each one.

Very true!

 

[JackRT]

Like father, like son???

 

[Rodan6]

Congrats to an excellent topic.
To understand the question of "when" a soul forms, I think it's important to distinguish between "life" and "soul". For an individual life to possess a soul, I believe it is necessary for that life to possess the power to "choose". A soul progresses through a spiritual life through the choices that are made. Life forms that do not hold potential to make choices, do not possess a soul because they cannot progress spiritually. Put this way, I think there are powerful reasons to believe that human beings do not possess a soul until that individual becomes sufficiently viable to possess what I would call "spiritual potential". It is not necessary that a life form be able to make choices, but rather they hold the potential to do so in time. Therefore, a tree cannot possess a soul since it will never be able to evaluate spiritual questions and make choices. And, a severely brain damaged fetus, if it also lacks this "potential", also will not obtain a soul. Twins, triplets, etc would obtain their soul once the fetus becomes sufficiently viable to hold potential.

 

[Radrook]

Like father, like son???

Sounds like personal experience talking.

 

[Radrook]

No offense, but that's a terrible definition of faith. I recommend sticking to the Biblical definition.

Absolutely true. The Bible does provide a very clear definition of faith and that definitely isn't it. Sticking to the Bible prevents such a misrepresentation. Unfortunately, sticking to the Bible doesn't appear to be a high priority to the very people who claim to represent it sometimes. In fact, going completely contrary to it seems to have become a fad of sorts in our modern times. Strange!

 

[Radrook]

What is a "soul"?

Here is a very clear explanation:

Meaning of the word "soul" in the Bible

https://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/materials/theology-state-dead/meaning-word-soul-bible

 

[JackRT]

Congrats to an excellent topic.
To understand the question of "when" a soul forms, I think it's important to distinguish between "life" and "soul". For an individual life to possess a soul, I believe it is necessary for that life to possess the power to "choose". A soul progresses through a spiritual life through the choices that are made. Life forms that do not hold potential to make choices, do not possess a soul because they cannot progress spiritually. Put this way, I think there are powerful reasons to believe that human beings do not possess a soul until that individual becomes sufficiently viable to possess what I would call "spiritual potential". It is not necessary that a life form be able to make choices, but rather they hold the potential to do so in time. Therefore, a tree cannot possess a soul since it will never be able to evaluate spiritual questions and make choices. And, a severely brain damaged fetus, if it also lacks this "potential", also will not obtain a soul. Twins, triplets, etc would obtain their soul once the fetus becomes sufficiently viable to hold potential.

Very interesting thoughts. Thank you.

 

[Radrook]

In these matters within Judaism, tradition is the authority.

Judaism considers tradition on equal footing with the rest of the OT?

Sorry but it brings to my mind this scripture:

Mark 7:8 ►
New International Version
You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions."

 

[Robban]

Judaism considers tradition on equal footing with the rest of the OT?

Sorry but it brings to my mind this scripture:

Well, I wrote, "In these matters...."

Behold, all things does God do-twice, even three times with a man--to bring his soul back from the pit that he may be
enlightened with the light of the living.
(Job 33:29)

Even some of the greatest authorities who are not
necessarily known for their mystical bent assume reincarnation to be an accepted basic tenet.

Generally speaking, this verse and others are understood
by mystics as mere allusions to the concept of reincarnation.
The true authority for the concept is rooted in the tradition.

 

[redleghunter]

It's said that we gain a soul the moment an egg is fertilized. Fair enough.

But I just had a thought: twins, triplets, etc. arise when the developing egg splits into several different ones. So if the soul forms at conception, does it suddenly split up into two or three souls as the twins or triplets develop? Did the initial egg suddenly contain multiple souls at conception so they multiple babies were alike in mind for a time until the split happens?

(Feel free to move this if it's in the wrong section, I posted it in Physical and Life sciences because, well, it's about the miracle of life. XD)

The first question should probably be 'who forms the soul' or 'gives us a soul?' All other approaches to decipher the OP will fall quickly unless this is addressed first.

 

[JackRT]

The first question should probably be 'who forms the soul' or 'gives us a soul?' All other approaches to decipher the OP will fall quickly unless this is addressed first.

Even before your question, we should ask two others.
"Is there such a thing as a soul?'
"What is a soul?"
We have no objective answer to either.

 

[redleghunter]

Even before your question, we should ask two others.
"Is there such a thing as a soul?'
"What is a soul?"
We have no objective answer to either.

We do have an objective answer.

The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: (Zechariah 12:1)

Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it: (Isaiah 42:5)

Then they fell on their faces, and said, “O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and You be angry with all the congregation?” (Numbers 16:22)


Then of course:

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

The above should at least answer your one question "Is there such a thing as a soul?"

 

[JackRT]

We do have an objective answer.

The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: (Zechariah 12:1)

Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it: (Isaiah 42:5)

Then they fell on their faces, and said, “O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and You be angry with all the congregation?” (Numbers 16:22)


Then of course:

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

The above should at least answer your one question "Is there such a thing as a soul?"

Simply quoting Bible Passages is not objective evidence. It is an appeal to something considered to be an authority. It is not evidence that you or I can go out and observe directly. For myself, the closest I can come to the concept of soul is that perhaps there might be something that we could call a "life force". At the moment , it might be entirely a natural phenomena but perhaps it might be more than that. In other words we simply don't know.

 

[redleghunter]

It is not evidence that you or I can go out and observe directly.

That would be subjective evidence.

Simply quoting Bible Passages is not objective evidence.

It is in fact revelation and teachings from God.

Unless one approaches this from a soulless unorthodox position.

 

[JackRT]

That would be subjective evidence.

If it can be observed directly by different individuals, it is objective.

It is in fact revelation and teachings from God.

This makes it a matter of faith which is a subjective matter.

Unless one approaches this from a soulless unorthodox position.

I approach objectively. You may call it unorthodox if you wish but the question of soul remains open for me.