"If the righteous scarcely be saved" (1 Peter 4:18)

[Gettingtalents]

1 Peter 4:18 KJV
[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

What are y'all's thoughts on "scarcely be saved"?

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

1 Peter 4:18 KJV
[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

What are y'all's thoughts on "scarcely be saved"?

......the correct quotation, as per Prov 11:31; read it in Hebrew for accuracy;
make sure u read just prior to it, in order to see the context.

here it is:


הן צדיק בארץ ישלם אף כי־רשע וחוטא׃

 

[Gettingtalents]

......the correct quotation, as per Prov 11:31; read it in Hebrew for accuracy;
make sure u read just prior to it, in order to see the context.[/COLOR][/I][/B]

here it is:


הן צדיק בארץ ישלם אף כי־רשע וחוטא׃

I don't read Hebrew. :-(

I do find that the NT writers use the LXX readings though instead of the extant Hebrew readings. I didn't even know this was a quote from Proverbs, but lo and behold, it is. Learned something new today

1 Peter 4:18

4:18 καὶ εἰ ὁ δίκαιος μόλις σῴζεται ὁ ἀσεβὴς καὶ ἁμαρτωλὸς ποῦ φανεῖται

Proverbs 11:31

11:31 εἰ ὁ μὲν δίκαιος μόλις σῴζεται ὁ ἀσεβὴς καὶ ἁμαρτωλὸς ποῦ φανεῖται
LXX Septuagint

 

[ananda]

1 Peter 4:18 KJV
[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

What are y'all's thoughts on "scarcely be saved"?

Isn't it a pretty straightforward verse?

It is difficult for a righteously obedient man or woman to be saved. Peter then asks wonderously as to what happens to the ungodly who actively walks in disobedience.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Isn't it a pretty straightforward verse?

It is difficult for a righteously obedient man or woman to be saved.
Peter then asks wonderously as to what happens to the ungodly who actively walks in disobedience.

The same thing that happened to this "rich man" in Luke 16

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:24 Then he cried and said, "Father Abraham! have mercy on me! and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented in this flame.' "

First, notice that the rich man identifies Abraham as his father, just as the Pharisees did (John 8:39). The rich man (Judah) is now shown to be undergoing reproof, testing, and punishment in "this flame" (singular, not "these flames"). It is quite obvious that the flame is not literal, because a wet fingertip on the tongue would do nothing to quench the pain inflicted by real flames.

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!


.

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

I don't read Hebrew. :-(

I do find that the NT writers use the LXX readings though instead of the extant Hebrew readings. I didn't even know this was a quote from Proverbs, but lo and behold, it is. Learned something new today

1 Peter 4:18

4:18 καὶ εἰ ὁ δίκαιος μόλις σῴζεται ὁ ἀσεβὴς καὶ ἁμαρτωλὸς ποῦ φανεῖται

Proverbs 11:31

11:31 εἰ ὁ μὲν δίκαιος μόλις σῴζεται ὁ ἀσεβὴς καὶ ἁμαρτωλὸς ποῦ φανεῖται
LXX Septuagint

Biblos.com does the translation for ya, or google translator also (as if u didn't know!)

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

Isn't it a pretty straightforward verse?

It is difficult for a righteously obedient man or woman to be saved. Peter then asks wonderously as to what happens to the ungodly who actively walks in disobedience.

Wow, this coming from an MJ who reads Hebrew???

which jewish "version/translation" are u reading/quoting from?
the Hebrew I've read is as follows:

Behold/IF the righteous in/on the earth will be rewarded (tho' the word ye su lam, has "salem roots" which begs many a question to meaning/translation)
also/how for/that the wicked sinner.

Which, when I read the verse(s) before it, I don't "get" from H>S> the standard Christian translation that 1Peter is calling the righteous "reward/recompense" the same thing as whats coming to the sinner.

Only, in English (mis)translations do u "arrive" at this conclusion.
Best to go back to proverbs in Hebrew yourself, I'd always say.

 

[ananda]

Wow, this coming from an MJ who reads Hebrew???

which jewish "version/translation" are u reading/quoting from?
the Hebrew I've read is as follows:

Behold/IF the righteous in/on the earth will be rewarded (tho' the word ye su lam, has "salem roots" which begs many a question to meaning/translation)
also/how for/that the wicked sinner.

Which, when I read the verse(s) before it, I don't "get" from H>S> the standard Christian translation that 1Peter is calling the righteous "reward/recompense" the same thing as whats coming to the sinner.

Only, in English (mis)translations do u "arrive" at this conclusion.
Best to go back to proverbs in Hebrew yourself, I'd always say.

I see 1Pet 4:18 as Peter as giving his interpretation of Prov 11:31, and not simply a quote of it.

 

[Gettingtalents]

I see 1Pet 4:18 as Peter as giving his interpretation of Prov 11:31, and not simply a quote of it.

It is apparently a quote from the Septuagint. The NT authors, when quoting OT passages, present the readings we find in the LXX rather than the extant Hebrew readings. This is why I place more weight on the LXX than the Hebrew readings.

 

[Gettingtalents]

1 Peter 4:17-18 KJV
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? [18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


1 Corinthians 11:32 KJV
[32] But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Judgment begins with us. He chasten us for our faults, even though we are righteous, and by his chastisement we are not condemned with the world. If the righteous are held accountable for their faults, and are scrutinized for every spot and wrinkle, insomuch that they barely make it in, how much more will those who live ungodly not only fail to be saved, but they won't even come anywhere close to it.

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

1 Peter 4:17-18 KJV
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? [18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


1 Corinthians 11:32 KJV
[32] But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Judgment begins with us. He chasten us for our faults, even though we are righteous, and by his chastisement we are not condemned with the world. If the righteous are held accountable for their faults, and are scrutinized for every spot and wrinkle, insomuch that they barely make it in, how much more will those who live ungodly not only fail to be saved, but they won't even come anywhere close to it.

The LLX probably has its place in search/study/seeking, yet I wouldn't rely on it so much in comparison to the orig Hebrew. Me wonders why you do?

Curiously, on another note, I've heard it said that the LLX word for "rest" in genesis was/is the same word recorded in NT when Jesus "gave up His Spirit."

I've yet to pin this down however, as I often get sidetracked, forget, and need to first find a LLX website I can "trust," to do the research.

Even now, work/duty calls.....yet I rely on H>S> to see me thru on this one.

Shalom,

 

[ananda]

It is apparently a quote from the Septuagint.

You're right!

The NT authors, when quoting OT passages, present the readings we find in the LXX rather than the extant Hebrew readings. This is why I place more weight on the LXX than the Hebrew readings.

It is my personal belief that most of the NT authors wrote their original letters and gospels in Hebrew, and they were translated into Greek by other people who in turn substituted LXX readings for the Hebrew.

 

[Ripheus27]

I feel as if the reference was not meant to be to spiritual salvation but respite while alive on Earth. We see that even men like Job suffer drastically here; thus it ought to be no surprise when we see the wicked suffer even more.

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

You're right!

It is my personal belief that most of the NT authors wrote their original letters and gospels in Hebrew, and they were translated into Greek by other people who in turn substituted LXX readings for the Hebrew.

HimiH believes the original assembly of YHVH (circa 33 AD - 100 AD) was mostly a lessor educated, lower socio-economic class, much like the masses that saw/heard Yeshua preach n teach.

As such, they were more like most Israelites of their day, prone to oral traditions as "telling/spreading stories/news"and enjoying their new found freedom in Yeshua as Ha Meshach & as such, therefore....not inclined to write down any history, as per said factors listed above; up to and including the terror & persecution by their own Jewish Sanhedrin, rabbis, Roman authorities, families & etc.

There is some controversy over the legitimacy of several new OT/NT writings based on claims of "insertions & deletions" as well as the authors &/or scribes themselves, involved over time. HimiH believes H>S> has been working mightily in spite of these claims be they true or false.

In re: to LXX and interps, the "Word" is not limited by one interp alone. There are literal & figurative meanings to much of scripture and also converse applications or paradoxes that can be construed by H>S> teaching, depending on one's maturity level/walk with Christ. This applies to 1Peter script, as well as any other, thus HimiH will not argue with anyone re: its meaning if that's what "they get;" hopefully....not of their own accord but H>S> inspired.

 

[he-man]

Isn't it a pretty straightforward verse?It is difficult for a righteously obedient man or woman to be saved. Peter then asks wonderously as to what happens to the ungodly who actively walks in disobedience.

Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" How difficult can that be? It plainly says what happened to Sodom and all the people in it who were not spared, but only Lot and his family.

Genesis 18:23 And Abraham came near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? (24) Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? (25) Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"