IF THE LAW OF MOSES WAS SET ASIDE , WHY ROM 13:9?

[expos4ever]

According to the scriptures Jesus, Paul, James and John are all in agreement that God's two great commandments of love to God and love to man are linked directly to Gods' 10 commandment.

Indeed they are linked to the 10; I, for one, have never denied that what Jesus tells us to do is, to some degree, based on the 10. But that hardly means that we are still to look to the 10.

The nature of the linkage suggests, I suggest, that the 10 are indeed retired. Paul writes this:

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now what I am about to say has been pointed out dozens of time: The concept of "fulfilling" something can, repeat can, entail that thing coming to an end.

My girlfriend is the fulfilment of my quest for love? Do I keep on looking for a girlfriend? Of course not.

Arriving in Paris by plane fulfills my quest to get from Montreal to Paris. Do I keep on flying? Of course not.

People who hold the 10 remain in force often stubbornly, and erroneously, insist that fulfillment, as a concept, requires that the thing being fulfilled needs to stick around. That can be true in some situations, but it is obviously not true generally as has just been shown.

In the same manner, to say that love fulfills the law can, repeat can, mean we no longer to need to refer to the law.

And I believe other texts make the case that this is indeed what is going on.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Indeed they are linked to the 10; I, for one, have never denied that what Jesus tells us to do is, to some degree, based on the 10. But that hardly means that we are still to look to the 10.

If you agree that love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law as shown through the scriptures earlier, than what is your argument now? - You have none. As Paul says Gods 10 commandments are not abolished through faith they are ESTABLISHED through faith that works by love (see Romans 3:31 compare with Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4). No one here is telling you to look to the law. As posted and shown from the scriptures already all the law does is to show give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed) according to the new covenant scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and also Psalms 119:172. James call them a mirror that shows us if we are loving out neighbor or not loving our neighbor in James 1:22-25; James 2:8-12 and John also shows that the test of love to God or man is obeying Gods' commandments as it is God's 10 commandments that show us how to love God and our fellow man (see 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 5:2-3). Therefore Gods' 10 commandments are the standard of if someone is loving God or their fellow man and also leads us to Christ when we break them that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 to be made free from sin and walk in His Spirit - Galatians 5:16. Love therefore does not abolish God's law like you teach. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law which teaches us how to love God and our fellow man. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without law). It teaches obedience to Gods' law by faith in God's Word that works in a new heart that has been born again in the Spirit of God to love (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 5:2-4).

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Paul clearly implicates the Law as bringing death:

But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law

..for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it, killed me

but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died;

Be wary, dear reader, of what I suspect will happen now. Those who believe the law is not an agent in bringing about death will deploy one or both of the following strategems:

1. They will present arguments that, while likely very true, will artfully evade dealing with Paul's statements, above. It is almost as if they are saying this: given these other things I have shown you that Paul is saying, we can ignore these texts.

2. They will bend Paul's actual words out of shape. For example, consider the concept of "sin coming to life when the commandment came, and I died". While this clearly implicates the law as playing a role in the death that results, attempts will be made to force this to say something that completely eliminates any such role. That is a step too far - it amounts to saying "Paul, you did not choose your words carefully, you must mean something else".

Here let me help you with this one again and add the scripture context back that is in disagreement with your view that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished. According to the scriptures here in 2 Corinthians 3 is not Gods 10 commandments that have become obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death that is obsolete through the ministration of the Spirit that brings life and peace through Gods’ forgiveness and faith in Christ.

Lets look at the scriptures and add the context back in...

2 Corinthians 3:3-18
[3], For as much as YOU ARE MANIFESTLY DECLARED TO BE THE LETTER OF CHRIST MINISTERED BY US, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:
[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION be glory, much more does the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10], For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.
[12], Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13], AND NOT AS MOSES, WHICH PUT A VEIL OVER HIS FACE, THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY LOOK TO THE END OF THAT WHICH IS ABOLISHED:
[14], BUT THEIR MINDS WERE BLINDED: FOR UNTIL THIS DAY REMAINS THE SAME VEIL NOT TAKEN AWAY IN THE READING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
[15], But even to this day, when Moses is read, the veil is on their heart.
[16], NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.
[17], Now THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.
[18], But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.​

Taken from the scriptures above...

• God's new covenant promise of God's Spirit and His law written on the heart - 2 Corinthians 3:3; see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27.
• Ministers of the new covenant (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27) not of the letter but of the Spirit written in the heart *2 Corinthians 3:6.
• The ministration of death is done away (not God's 10 commandments) by the ministration of the Spirit - 2 Corinthians 3:7-8
• The ministration of condemnation is now exceeded by the ministration of righteousness (right doing Gods law written in the heart to love) - 2 Corinthians 3:9.
• The ministration of condemnation and death is done away through the ministration of the Spirit and God's forgiveness of sins through Christ which is that Spirit *2 Corinthians 3:11-17

.....................

SUMMARY: 2 Corinthians 3:3-18 show that it is the ministration of condemnation and death by the letter that is done away by the ministration of the Spirit through God's mercy, grace and forgiveness through faith that works by love in fulfillment of Gods' new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) that is done away not God's 10 commandments. All God's 10 commandments do under the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

An interpretation that 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about abolishing Gods' 10 commandments has Paul in contradiction to Paul when he says in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes God's law and again in Romans 13:8-10 where Paul says we love our neighbor as our self by being obedient to those laws in God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to our fellow man.

Indeed the ministration of the Spirit is greater the than the ministration of the letter because while the letter brings death and condemnation while the Spirit brings life and forgiveness through Christ and writes the law on the heart through faith that works by love which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word and walk in newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 6:1-23. It is not therefore God’s 10 commandments that have become obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death through the ministration of God’s forgiveness and His sacrifice for our sins.

God's Word does not support your teachings of lawlessness (without law).

Take Care now.

 

[daq]

Is that a quote from some obscure place?
Because it doesn't show up... not even in the dogpile search engine.

Is it like The Telephone Game? where the first person says something to the second person, and the second says it to the third... by the time it makes it around the whole circle, how closely does it match what the first person said?

For starters, Judges 19:1-30, Matthew 19:27-30, Luke 22:28-30, Matthew 10:5-42, Luke 10:5-7, Luke 17:20-21, and the Logos found in all of the body-temple analogies, parables, proverbs, allegories, sayings, and teachings of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts and in the same teachings in the epistles of his apostles.

 

[Ligurian]

I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom, which contains the Oridinances of the Davidic Covenant, starting with the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus calls it both Law and Commandments, Matthew 5:17-20. Deuteronomy 18:18-19 is prophecy about these words Jesus speaks, and Jesus confirms it in John 12:44-50. These are parallel verses and come with a built-in warning.

It is the new wine of the New Covenant, spoken of here:

Matthew 9:15-17 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

And here:

Matthew 11:25-30 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight. All things are delivered unto Me of My Father, and no man knoweth the Son but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls: for My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

It is obvious to me that "heavy laden" is the "burden" in Matthew 23:4. So it's not the Law of Moses and/or that which Moses allowed due to their hard hearts (Matthew 19:3-8). ... Jesus' yoke is the Davidic Covenant for the Davidic Kingdom, offered to those who hear the One Shepherd (John 10:1-16) speaking the words of the Father.

These two passages book-end the Davidic Kingdom Law of the Sermon on the Mount: This is Law-Keeping.
Matthew 5:21-22 Matthew 7:24-27
Deuteronomy 18:18-19 says that Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses... because both promote Law-Keeping.

Maybe I have not followed the whole conversation, but I will chime in. Yes, Jesus is commanding us to do certain things. And if you want to say that such commands constitute a type of "law", I have no objection.

However, Jesus is not, in these texts anyway, telling us to follow the Law of Moses (including the 10).

He tells His contemporaries to follow the Law of Moses in other texts, but I happen to believe that He knows that the Law of Moses will end at the cross.

I've quoted (above) my part of "the whole conversation"... call it my reply to your chime... where I've already addressed your claims, and I've bolded a few vital points.

Jesus didn't teach the Law of Moses, He repeats the Father's 10 Commandments, but He sets aside several Mosaic things with the words "But I say unto you", on the mount.

So then, what you've failed to take into consideration is this:

Matthew 24:30-35 Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

Matthew 28:16-20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have Commanded you

So that, even when the new Heaven and new Earth are generated, Jesus' words will still stand... and these words were given to the Galilean Disciples, who took them into the nations. "And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come."

 

[Clare73]

The Levitical law and the Aaronic law are the same law; i.e., the Mosaic law, both Moses and Aaron being from the tribe of Levi.

The Levitical/Aaronic/Mosaic law was changed to the law of Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), which is God's law (1 Corinthians 9:21), obedience to which thereby fulfills the Mosaic law "and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10)

If you mean does when you say fulfills then yes

I mean what Romans 13:8-10 means: the law is now written on the heart, which is why love is the fullness of the law, why he who loves has thereby fulfilled the law, because love is now governing his heart, he no longer needs as external written code to know how to obey the law, love gives him to know.

That is the meaning of Jeremiah 31:33 in the NT apostolic teaching of Romans 13:8-10.

 

[Clare73]

The Levitical law and the Aaronic law are the same law; i.e., the Mosaic law, both Moses and Aaron being from the tribe of Levi.

The Levitical/Aaronic/Mosaic law was changed to the law of Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), which is God's law (1 Corinthians 9:21), obedience to which thereby fulfills the Mosaic law "and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10)

There is no Law OF Christ mentioned in any of those text you shared.

See 1 Corinthians 9:21.

 

[Clare73]

Paul clearly implicates the Law as bringing death:

As does, "All you rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10)

But if the

ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law

..for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it, killed me

but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died;

Be wary, dear reader, of what I suspect will happen now. Those who believe the law is not an agent in bringing about death will deploy one or both of the following strategems:

1. They will present arguments that, while likely very true, will artfully evade dealing with Paul's statements, above. It is almost as if they are saying this: given these other things I have shown you that Paul is saying, we can ignore these texts.

2. They will bend Paul's actual words out of shape. For example, consider the concept of "sin coming to life when the commandment came, and I died". While this clearly implicates the law as playing a role in the death that results, attempts will be made to force this to say something that completely eliminates any such role. That is a step too far - it amounts to saying "Paul, you did not choose your words carefully, you must mean something else".

 

[daq]

We know that Paul wrote the book of ROMANS ,and in Rom 13:9 he writes , For this , thou shall not commit Adultery .

#2 Thou shall not kill .

#3 thou shall not bear false witness ,

#4 Thou shall not Covet .

Notice what Paul let OUT ?

I believe the Law , what bis called the OLD COVENANT was set aside as Paul wrote in 2 Cor 3:13 .

And nowhere does Paul say we are in the NEW COVENANT !!

dan p

And I believe that the Law of Moses was set aside as Paul wrote in 2 Cor 3:11-14 we see that the Law of Moses was DEFINITELY set aside .

But will anyone says that the Law of Moses is STILL not yet BEING USED as verse 15 and 16 reveals how a Jew has the VAIL taken away from his HEART to believe in Christ .

dan p

Hi Dan, it's been a while, was it Acts 2, or Acts 9 or Acts 28? I forget, having talked to so many MADists since then and now.

Judging by your comments in the second post it appears you are saying that Paul is using the Torah to show that the Torah has been set aside? (Please correct me if this is wrong). Is this your explanation and answer for the thread title? for why Paul quotes the commandments which you cited in the OP?

If so, this makes no sense because in the Romans passage he actually quotes Leviticus when he recites the second great commandment, ("You shall love your neighbor as yourself", Leviticus 19:18 quoted in Romans 13:9). If this is what you are suggesting it is essentially Paul pitting scripture against scripture to nullify the Torah, at least imo, which Paul surely would not do.

 

[daq]

Paul clearly implicates the Law as bringing death:

Death is good because the old man nature and carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the Torah of God, neither indeed can be. The problem is that the old man nature refuses to die: so people make up all sorts of reasons not to go under the knife of the Torah and have the cancer removed.

 

[Ligurian]

For starters, Judges 19:1-30, Matthew 19:27-30, Luke 22:28-30, Matthew 10:5-42, Luke 10:5-7, Luke 17:20-21, and the Logos found in all of the body-temple analogies, parables, proverbs, allegories, sayings, and teachings of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts and in the same teachings in the epistles of his apostles.

Paraphrasing brings up questions. Exact quotes... not so much.

 

[daq]

Paraphrasing brings up questions. Exact quotes... not so much.

There is a huge difference between logos from context and paraphrasing. The NLT is a complete paraphrase of the Bible and can kill you.

 

[expos4ever]

Death is good because the old man nature and carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the Torah of God, neither indeed can be. The problem is that the old man nature refuses to die: so people make up all sorts of reasons not to go under the knife of the Torah and have the cancer removed.

What is your exact point? It seems like it is basically this:

1. The old nature is in enmity with God and cannot therefore follow Torah
2. The Torah brings about the death of the this "old nature.
3. Now the "new man" can and should follow the Torah

I see no scriptural evidence for this it all, and plenty against it. However, I concede that it is at least an internally consistent theory - a theory that could imaginably be true.

What do you think Paul is saying here?:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[expos4ever]

One poster appears, repeat appears to be agreeing that the law produces death, but that this is a good thing since the thing that dies is the old nature. Once the old nature has died and been replaced by the new nature and the indwelling Spirit, the person is then able to fulfill all the mandates of the Torah.

It is very possible that I have not fairly represented this view.

But if this is indeed what is being asserted, I agree that this makes sense as an hypotheses - it is internally consistent and otherwise holds together logically.

But, of course, this is not enough - it has to be supported by the scriptural evidence. And I believe there is scads of evidence that, while old nature has indeed died for the believer, the Torah has been retired. So while the "renewed man" could follow Torah, this is not God's plan.

 

[expos4ever]

God's Word does not support your teachings of lawlessness (without law).

I will repeat again lest other readers be duped by your repeated misrepresentation of my views: I have never, repeat never posted anything that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that I deny that sin is lawlessness. All I have said is that we no longer need the Law of Moses (including the 10) to identify what sin is.

You can elect to take your editor's pen and change this:

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness

and hatchet it into this:

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessnessviolation of the 10 Commandments

But that is your problem, not mine.

Any reader with their wits about them will know that lawlessness is a general concept with no necessary specificity to the 10 commandments.

I hope to deal with the rest of your post later.

 

[Clare73]

One poster appears, repeat appears to be agreeing that the law produces death, but that this is a good thing since the thing that dies is the old nature.

Is that what the NT presents?
The law produces the death that is the curse of the law, which is eternal death, right?

Once the old nature has died and been replaced by the new nature and the indwelling Spirit, the person is then able to fulfill all the mandates of the Torah.

It is very possible that I have not fairly represented this view.

But if this is indeed what is being asserted, I agree that this makes sense as an hypotheses - it is internally consistent and otherwise holds together logically.

But, of course, this is not enough - it has to be supported by the scriptural evidence. And I believe there is scads of evidence that, while old nature has indeed died for the believer, the Torah has been retired. So while the "renewed man" could follow Torah, this is not God's plan.

 

[daq]

What do you think Paul is saying here?:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

What do I think it means? If one reads and understands according to the letter the same will die. But I note also that Paul says "serve", the same which he says at the last portion of the same chapter, after stating that the Torah is spiritual, (Romans 7:14).

Romans 7:22-25 KJV
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What do you think he means when he says that with the mind he serves the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin?

If therefore he says that he serves in the "newness of the Spirit", (Romans 7:6), and then he says that the Torah is spiritual, (Romans 7:14), then no doubt he means in the above, (Romans 7:25), that he serves in the new supernal and spiritual way taught by the Messiah in the Gospel accounts. And we know elsewhere that he says he writes and teaches the commandments of the Master, (1 Corinthians 14:37, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8).

 

[daq]

One poster appears, repeat appears to be agreeing that the law produces death, but that this is a good thing since the thing that dies is the old nature. Once the old nature has died and been replaced by the new nature and the indwelling Spirit, the person is then able to fulfill all the mandates of the Torah.

It is very possible that I have not fairly represented this view.

But if this is indeed what is being asserted, I agree that this makes sense as an hypotheses - it is internally consistent and otherwise holds together logically.

But, of course, this is not enough - it has to be supported by the scriptural evidence. And I believe there is scads of evidence that, while old nature has indeed died for the believer, the Torah has been retired. So while the "renewed man" could follow Torah, this is not God's plan.

Paul does not teach that the old nature has died for the believer. Ephesians 4:20-24,

Colossians 3:5-10 KJV
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

It's up to each one to cut off the old man nature: moreover, please note the exhortation to mortify your members upon (concerning) the earth, (of below). This is directly related to the war in your members in the passage discussed in the previous post, (Romans 7), which means that without supernal Torah you cannot do what is required according to Paul: for with the flesh he says he serves the torah-teaching of sin (and death), and that is to mortify or put to death sin in his members. This also relates back to the next chapter in Romans which is actually still the same passage.

Romans 8:4-13 KJV
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

If your eye offends you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: if your hand or foot offends you, cut it off and cast it from you. Mortifying or putting to death your members is the same teaching only couched in different terminology. The Master isn't going to do this for you because it is up to you to prove your love and faith. However, as Paul teaches, supernal Torah will do it for you: but you must be willing to undergo the operation, (and it's going to be apocalyptic).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I will repeat again lest other readers be duped by your repeated misrepresentation of my views: I have never, repeat never posted anything that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that I deny that sin is lawlessness. All I have said is that we no longer need the Law of Moses (including the 10) to identify what sin is.

You can elect to take your editor's pen and change this:

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness

and hatchet it into this:

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessnessviolation of the 10 Commandments

But that is your problem, not mine.

Any reader with their wits about them will know that lawlessness is a general concept with no necessary specificity to the 10 commandments.

I hope to deal with the rest of your post later.

Perhaps you need to revisit what your saying and claiming here with what you believe and have said elsewhere. How can you claim you believe that sin is lawlessness when you teach there is no law? That does not really make any sense now does it when the bible defines sin as breaking God's law *1 John 3:4 and your teaching there is no law.

 

[expos4ever]

How can you claim you believe that sin is lawlessness when you teach there is no law?

I have never said there is no law. I am not sure why you cannot understand this. I have indeed claimed that there is no more 10 commandments, but that is not the same thing as saying there is no law of any kind!

I consider Jesus's directions on how to live to be a kind of "law". Likewise, I consider to be promptings of the Spirit to be a kind of "law".