If the beginnings of Genesis aren't literally true, then what way are they true?

[joshua 1 9]

The promise of HIS return which is getting closer by the day.

Every day we are closer to the end of the universe even though that is billions of years away.

 

[AV1611VET]

Every day we are closer to the end of the universe even though that is billions of years away.

Are you getting this from the Bible or science?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

On the contrary, if I don't use words of scripture to back what I'm saying then I can't show that my words are inerrant. It's far too easy to assume I know truth, but if I can't back it up with scripture, then it's not truth.

1 Timothy 6:3-6
"If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain."

If you've accepted Jesus with all your heart, soul and mind and you follow His teaching, you will be lead to righteousness. That is the truth.

Let me get this straight. You cannot establish inerrancy except via the fallacy of circular reasoning? Then you confess you have not established it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

This whole idea that reasoning is circular as being a bad thing doesn't make sense to me. If I believe I have access to truth, why wouldn't I go to that source for truth and then apply it to my life and then go back to the source for truth again repeating the cycle in order to maintain truthfulness?

Now what I can show is that an atheist's reasoning is actually based on contradicting truths.

So let me ask you would you rather believe in the truth or would you rather believe in contradicting truths?

Circular reasoning isn't necessarily bad, if it is used within its limits. You cannot use it to prove things. You can use it to explore consequences.

 

[HitchSlap]

Are you getting this from the Bible or science?

Hey, but at least you all believe "in the big inning God," right.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey, but at least you all believe "in the big inning God," right.

Something like that.

 

[HitchSlap]

Something like that.

After that, it's just a matter of interpretation, right?

 

[Chriliman]

Circular reasoning isn't necessarily bad, if it is used within its limits. You cannot use it to prove things. You can use it to explore consequences.

I've given my reasons for why I believe God created the universe. My reasons are just as sound as a scientist's reasoning for the belief in a singularity. I have access to the TRUTH through the power of the Holy Spirit. I understand I can't prove this Truth to anyone and quite frankly I don't want to prove it to anyone because only God can prove His truth to people, it's up to them to accept it. You can call it circular reasoning if you want, but God's truth is my source for truth and I'll continue following Jesus in order to be made completely righteous in the Father's eyes. If you want to be righteous in the eye's of the Father, I suggest you do the same if you're not already.

Philippians 1:11
"Filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God."

Luke 6:48
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”

Words to live by.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I've given my reasons for why I believe God created the universe. My reasons are just as sound as a scientist's reasoning for the belief in a singularity. I have access to the TRUTH through the power of the Holy Spirit. I understand I can't prove this Truth to anyone and quite frankly I don't want to prove it to anyone because only God can prove His truth to people, it's up to them to accept it. You can call it circular reasoning if you want, but God's truth is my source for truth and I'll continue following Jesus in order to be made completely righteous in the Father's eyes. If you want to be righteous in the eye's of the Father, I suggest you do the same if you're not already.

Philippians 1:11
"Filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God."

Luke 6:48
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”

Words to live by.

Scientists mention that their equations predict a singularity only to say they don't believe they have the whole story. In other words, there is no consensus of widespread belief in actual singularities.

Indeed, quantum mechanics would seem to make singularities actually impossible.

What you have is evidence that, to you, seems important . . .the testimony of the Holy Spirit within you. This is not mere circularity, this is more.

However, you will understand how others will be skeptical of that testimony, given the widespread misuse of such testimony by people who are clearly mistaken in ascribing their ideas to the Holy Spirit when its really of another source.

 

[Chriliman]

Scientists mention that their equations predict a singularity only to say they don't believe they have the whole story. In other words, there is no consensus of widespread belief in actual singularities.

Indeed, quantum mechanics would seem to make singularities actually impossible.

What you have is evidence that, to you, seems important . . .the testimony of the Holy Spirit within you. This is not mere circularity, this is more.

However, you will understand how others will be skeptical of that testimony, given the widespread misuse of such testimony by people who are clearly mistaken in ascribing their ideas to the Holy Spirit when its really of another source.

Very true, it's either from the Spirit of God or it's from a spirit of evil. This is why we must test the spirits against scripture to be sure we are in righteousness with God's Truth. God has allowed me to have the ideas I have, but only to help others to understand, so that God can soften their hearts. They are unwilling to seek Him and so He uses me to reach them and I'm more than happy to be a servant. I recognize my ideas and thoughts are worthless without the power of God to give them meaning.

John 14:12
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father"

Proverbs 27:17
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."

You sharpen me, I sharpen you, praise God!

God bless!

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Very true, it's either from the Spirit of God or it's from a spirit of evil. This is why we must test the spirits against scripture to be sure we are in righteousness with God's Truth. God has allowed me to have the ideas I have, but only to help others to understand, so that God can soften their hearts. They are unwilling to seek Him and so He uses me to reach them and I'm more than happy to be a servant. I recognize my ideas and thoughts are worthless without the power of God to give them meaning.

John 14:12
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father"

Proverbs 27:17
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."

You sharpen me, I sharpen you, praise God!

God bless!

So is the world over 4 billion years in age? Is all life of common descent from millions and millions of years ago?

 

[Chriliman]

So is the world over 4 billion years in age? Is all life of common descent from millions and millions of years ago?

That is the question isn't it. I believe before I was self aware a day was like a 1000yrs and 1000yrs was like a day meaning before anyone one of us became self aware, time did not matter to God. Now that we are self aware all that matters is eternity.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

That is the question isn't it. I believe before I was self aware a day was like a 1000yrs and 1000yrs was like a day meaning before anyone one of us became self aware, time did not matter to God. Now that we are self aware all that matters is eternity.

Well the question is about trusting the word of God and what the word of God is, to trust it. We count the Bible as the word of God . . . and we say it is inerrant. But we find that it is not enough to say the Bible is inerrant, it will seemingly have contradictions . . . so we say the Bible is inerrant when properly interpreted. And we move heaven and earth to reconcile the apparent contradictions.

But does not the Bible assert that it was by the word of God that the worlds came into being? Did not God speak, saying "let there be light" and there was light? So Isn't the whole Universe . . . . also . . . . the Word of God?

We can trust the Word of God spoken in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

The same methods used to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Bible can reconcile the apparent contradictions between the Universe and the Bible. All we have to do is similarly apply ourselves.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

Well the question is about trusting the word of God and what the word of God is, to trust it. We count the Bible as the word of God . . . and we say it is inerrant. But we find that it is not enough to say the Bible is inerrant, it will seemingly have contradictions . . . so we say the Bible is inerrant when properly interpreted. And we move heaven and earth to reconcile the apparent contradictions.

But does not the Bible assert that it was by the word of God that the worlds came into being? Did not God speak, saying "let there be light" and there was light? So Isn't the whole Universe . . . . also . . . . the Word of God?

We can trust the Word of God spoken in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

The same methods used to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Bible can reconcile the apparent contradictions between the Universe and the Bible. All we have to do is similarly apply ourselves.

I think as Christians, we have to humbly remind ourselves from time to time that the Bible is the word of God and the source of all truth. As such, if the Bible seems to be at odds with something that the scientific community is proposing, whether it be a so-called singularity or some other ungodly idea, then we have to question whether we have the correct science.

 

[Chriliman]

And we move heaven and earth to reconcile the apparent contradictions.

The Bible is the word of God's truth. We have no power to move heaven and earth to reveal God's truth. In fact we are the reason that the Bible "appears" to have contradictions, simply because we are not perfect. We are only made perfect through Jesus Christ who is in closest relationship with God and is making God's Truth known to us.

John 1:18
"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

But does not the Bible assert that it was by the word of God that the worlds came into being? Did not God speak, saying "let there be light" and there was light? So Isn't the whole Universe . . . . also . . . . the Word of God?

We can trust the Word of God spoken in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

The same methods used to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Bible can reconcile the apparent contradictions between the Universe and the Bible. All we have to do is similarly apply ourselves.

The only purpose of the observable universe is to proclaim the truth of God. The only purpose we have is to proclaim the truth of God. So what is the truth of God? See below.

John 1:1-5
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

Everywhere it says "he" or "him" it's referring to Jesus.

Jesus + nothing = everything

My only concern has been that you haven't mentioned Jesus in any of your posts. I proclaim Jesus when ever and where ever I can because I truly believe that without him, I'm nothing.

1 John 4:2
"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God"

 

[TLK Valentine]

I think as Christians, we have to humbly remind ourselves from time to time that the Bible is the word of God and the source of all truth. As such, if the Bible seems to be at odds with something that the scientific community is proposing, whether it be a so-called singularity or some other ungodly idea, then we have to question whether we have the correct science.

Should a Christian ever question whether they're reading the Bible correctly?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The Bible is the word of God's truth. We have no power to move heaven and earth to reveal God's truth. . . . . .
The only purpose of the observable universe is to proclaim the truth of God. The only purpose we have is to proclaim the truth of God. . . . .

It is for the very reasons you cite that we must confess that the universe is 13+ billion years old, the earth is over 4 billion years old, and all life on earth is of common descent.

Because we have no power to move heaven and earth to reveal God's truth; instead heaven and earth reveal God's truth to US. Because the purpose the the observable universe is to proclaim the truth of GOD and we DARE NOT CALL THE UNIVERSE A LIAR. The universe TELLS US THE TRUTH about God and HIS CREATION.

 

[Chriliman]

It is for the very reasons you cite that we must confess that the universe is 13+ billion years old, the earth is over 4 billion years old, and all life on earth is of common descent.

Because we have no power to move heaven and earth to reveal God's truth; instead heaven and earth reveal God's truth to US. Because the purpose the the observable universe is to proclaim the truth of GOD and we DARE NOT CALL THE UNIVERSE A LIAR. The universe TELLS US THE TRUTH about God and HIS CREATION.

Right, and the only reason there is a heaven or an earth is because of God's begotten son, Jesus. Do you agree with this? If so then we are on the same page.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Right, and the only reason there is a heaven or an earth is because of God's begotten son, Jesus. Do you agree with this? If so then we are on the same page.

Yes, all things are created through Him and by Him.

 

[Chriliman]

Should a Christian ever question whether they're reading the Bible correctly?

What makes a Christian is the confession that one is a wretched sinner and is nothing without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. A Christian claims Jesus as the Lord of their lives and follows his teachings, which can be confirmed by everything the Bible says. When a person truly gives up their lives for Christ, they are filled with the Holy Spirit, which begins teaching them God's Truth through the words in the Bible.

This is why I say if scripture cannot support scripture then that scripture in question is being misinterpreted. A Christian should always try to look at the Bible as a whole and not pick and choose what to believe, just because it conforms to their lifestyle. A Christian's lifestyle should only conform to what the Bible says as a whole. And you can never know what the Bible says as a whole if you do not accept Jesus as your savior.