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If the beginnings of Genesis aren't literally true, then what way are they true?

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Goonie

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Does it seem my beliefs are not based on rational enquiry?

If there is no ultimate authority, then we can all believe whatever we want with no consequence because there's no ultimate authority to dictate truth from lies. This is the very reason I believe in an ultimate authority because it makes more sense to believe in this rather than to believe I am my own ultimate authority. If I am my own ultimate authority then truth is determined by what I believe. This seems irrational to me, which is why I believe there is an ultimate authority that dictates truth, because it wouldn't makes sense for me to be able to dictate truth. I can only accept what is true.
and I take my truth not just from myself, but those around us, and humanity as a whole. A more humanist position. One reason for my visiting this site is to learn about other beliefs, and to debate - admittedly badly, I tend to respond to posts withought adequate thought.
 
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Chriliman

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and I take my truth not just from myself, but those around us, and humanity as a whole. A more humanist position. One reason for my visiting this site is to learn about other beliefs, and to debate - admittedly badly, I tend to respond to posts withought adequate thought.

I respect when people admit they are not perfect. It shows humility and humility is the very foundation of Christianity. If you humble yourself enough you'll see the only things that matter in life are love and truth.

Proverbs 3:34
"Toward the scorners he is scornful, but to the humble he gives favor."

I believe humility is the path to truth and truth is the path to everlasting love and life.

John 14:6
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

For me at least, Christianity is the only "religion" that makes complete sense. I put religion in quotations because it's more of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Ask any true Christian and they'll tell you the same thing. Sure ask anyone from any other religion and they'll tell you there god is more real than the Christian God, only difference is their religion does not make sense, when you really think about it.
 
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AV1611VET

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Well, maybe it floats down to earth like a cartoon feather :p
That "cartoon feather" is going to split the Mount of Olives wide open.[VERSE=Zechariah 14:4,KJV]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.[/VERSE]
 
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Goonie

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I respect when people admit they are not perfect. It shows humility and humility is the very foundation of Christianity. If you humble yourself enough you'll see the only things that matter in life are love and truth.

Proverbs 3:34
"Toward the scorners he is scornful, but to the humble he gives favor."

I believe humility is the path to truth and truth is the path to everlasting love and life.

John 14:6
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

For me at least, Christianity is the only "religion" that makes complete sense. I put religion in quotations because it's more of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Ask any true Christian and they'll tell you the same thing. Sure ask anyone from any other religion and they'll tell you there god is more real than the Christian God, only difference is their religion does not make sense, when you really think about it.
Indeed, it is just that I tend to number, the christian god with the rest, as not making sense.
 
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Chriliman

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Indeed, it is just that I tend to number, the christian god with the rest, as not making sense.

Sure I understand. Just try to stay humble and remember Jesus is the key and it will only be a matter of time until you see the truth.

Thanks for the great discussion, these types of discussions are why I come to this site as well :)

May God show favor on you for being humble :)
 
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Isaacsname

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That "cartoon feather" is going to split the Mount of Olives wide open.[VERSE=Zechariah 14:4,KJV]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.[/VERSE]

There is always the possibility that Jesus meant what he said

" Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."…

If you read it again, you'll see he said ( Jesus ) " not coming with signs to be observed "

Of course, this would mean that all the religious people that have pushed the ideas that the sky will split open and fire and lightning and blah blah.....are dead wrong about literal interpretations, and these things will be explained by Jesus when he returns

Then of course, there is the parable of the vineyard workers, again, Jesus' own words, in the parable of the vineyard owner's son, in which he finally sends his son after the husbandmen kill everybody else before him

-----------------------------

Matthew chapter 21

" But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder "

-------------------------

...and so Jesus is going to fall out of the sky riding a horse, and split mountains....yet people are going to react by saying :

" This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance "

On what planet does that make any sense ?

More likely that many many people are in for a hard surprise

I wonder how happy they'd be to see their king if they had to admit being wrong about a great many things regarding their Biblical interpretations this whole time ?

Methinks the " humility to the king " would go right out the window

:p
 
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Chriliman

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There is always the possibility that Jesus meant what he said

" Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."…

If you read it again, you'll see he said ( Jesus ) " not coming with signs to be observed "

Of course, this would mean that all the religious people that have pushed the ideas that the sky will split open and fire and lightning and blah blah.....are dead wrong about literal interpretations, and these things will be explained by Jesus when he returns

Then of course, there is the parable of the vineyard workers, again, Jesus' own words, in the parable of the vineyard owner's son, in which he finally sends his son after the husbandmen kill everybody else before him

-----------------------------

Matthew chapter 21

" But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder "

-------------------------

...and so Jesus is going to fall out of the sky riding a horse, and split mountains....yet people are going to react by saying :

" This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance "

On what planet does that make any sense ?

More likely that many many people are in for a hard surprise

I wonder how happy they'd be to see their king if they had to admit being wrong about a great many things regarding their Biblical interpretations this whole time ?

Methinks the " humility to the king " would go right out the window

:p

I'm not sure if you claim to be a Christian or not, but to show respect for what Jesus says, but only in order to show a point about how someone who believes in Jesus is wrong, is the very definition of a hypocrite.

Matthew 7:5
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Again, I'm only saying you're being hypocritical if you don't believe in Jesus, if you do believe in Jesus then I'll say it's very important for us to not rely on our minds to interpret scripture, it's far to easy to assume we know the truth. We should always rely on the Holy Spirit to discern Biblical truths.

1 John 4:1
"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world"
 
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HitchSlap

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That's the problem though, we really don't have any idea what Jesus may have said. The Gospels were written by men who never met Jesus.

There is always the possibility that Jesus meant what he said

" Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."…

If you read it again, you'll see he said ( Jesus ) " not coming with signs to be observed "

Of course, this would mean that all the religious people that have pushed the ideas that the sky will split open and fire and lightning and blah blah.....are dead wrong about literal interpretations, and these things will be explained by Jesus when he returns

Then of course, there is the parable of the vineyard workers, again, Jesus' own words, in the parable of the vineyard owner's son, in which he finally sends his son after the husbandmen kill everybody else before him

-----------------------------

Matthew chapter 21

" But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder "

-------------------------

...and so Jesus is going to fall out of the sky riding a horse, and split mountains....yet people are going to react by saying :

" This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance "

On what planet does that make any sense ?

More likely that many many people are in for a hard surprise

I wonder how happy they'd be to see their king if they had to admit being wrong about a great many things regarding their Biblical interpretations this whole time ?

Methinks the " humility to the king " would go right out the window

:p
 
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Chriliman

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How would you propose one do this?

Hey HitchSlap, how's it going?

Well, what I did was read the latest books on what science believes about the origins of the universe(Grand Design by Stephen Hawking), then I used reason to determine that this universe could not have possibly come from nothing or a singularity and the only other possibility is that it was created by an infinite being with infinite knowledge. The God of the Bible describes himself as being infinite and having infinite knowledge, thus my belief in Him and the explanation of why I'm so passionate about bringing others to know Him through the belief in Jesus Christ.

Of course it wasn't as easy as I'm making it seem to come to this conclusion. It was the darkest times of my life. Spiritual warfare is a very real thing. I don't expect you to understand if you don't believe in the spiritual realm.
 
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AV1611VET

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...and so Jesus is going to fall out of the sky riding a horse, and split mountains....yet people are going to react by saying :

" This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance "
First Advent -- this is Jesus' first advent.

And Jesus is prophesying His own death.
 
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AV1611VET

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The Tabernacle shall dwell among men

I bet those are going to be some harrowing times
Nope.

It will be a time when the Prince of Peace is here -- reigning for a thousand years.

There are 333 prophecies concerning Jesus Christ; of which 109 of them were fulfilled at His first advent.

During His second advent, the other 224 will be fulfilled.

Notice this prophecy:

[VERSE=Isaiah 9:6,KJV]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/VERSE]In His first advent:
  1. The government was never on His shoulder.
  2. He was never called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, or the Prince of Peace.
Note this passage also:[VERSE=Isaiah 61:1-2,KJV][VERSENUM]1[/VERSENUM] The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; [VERSENUM]2[/VERSENUM] To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;[/VERSE]When Jesus quoted it concerning Himself ...[VERSE=Luke 4:18-19,KJV][VERSENUM]18[/VERSENUM] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [VERSENUM]19[/VERSENUM] To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.[/VERSE]... why do you think He stopped at the comma in Isaiah 61:2?

It's because the first part of that prophecy in Isaiah 61 concerns His first advent, and the rest of that prophecy will be fulfilled during His second advent.
 
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Isaacsname

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oh, goodness, the reign of a 1,000 years

I wonder if those are in " Prophetic years " or not ?

Let's see....360 days x 1,000 = 360,000

The gematria of ' kingdom ' = 540

360,000 / 540 = 666.6666666666....

ooooops

My wager is that you don't know anywhere as much about these topics as you think you do :)

You know....the only " antichrist " in the Bible is the person who denies the risen Christ
 
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AV1611VET

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I wonder if those are in " Prophetic years " or not ?
They are a literal one thousand years.

In fact, it is referred to as the Millennial Reign of Christ.

A time when Jesus will reign physically upon the earth.

It is God's seventh and final dispensation.
 
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