"If someone hits you on one cheek turn to him the other"

[Pilgrim 33]

The 'eye for an eye" verse is refers to the justice system.

Doesn't refer to "the" justice system, though man's justice system is based on where it came from, that being the justice system as laid out by God and given to the Jews.


"And God spake all these words, saying,"...."Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them"..."And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."*

*Exodus 20:1; 21:1, 23, 24, 25

 

[Faith In God]

Doesn't refer to "the" justice system, though man's justice system is based on where it came from, that being the justice system as laid out by God and given to the Jews.


"And God spake all these words, saying,"...."Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them"..."And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."*

*Exodus 20:1; 21:1, 23, 24, 25

since that society was following God (for the most part ) and His system (ie His ways are perfect) should not an ideal government follow biblical principle?

 

[Pilgrim 33]

since that society was following God (for the most part ) and His system (ie His ways are perfect) should not an ideal government follow biblical principle?

"His system" was not given to mankind but to the Jews and, then, only as a general guideline until such time that the true law might be. The "guideline" is a "law of death", exemplied in its full legal limit, the death penalty. The true law, the "law of Christ" is the "law of life" exemplified in life eternal.

 

[Faith In God]

"His system" was not given to mankind but to the Jews and, then, only as a general guideline until such time that the true law might be. The "guideline" is a "law of death", exemplied in its full legal limit, the death penalty. The true law, the "law of Christ" is the "law of life" exemplified in life eternal.

yup. I hear you. so the issue is moot then. nm.

anyway, most justice systems are based on spin-offs of the eye for eye principle, no?

 

[Pilgrim 33]

most justice systems are based on spin-offs of the eye for eye principle, no?

Before that, even, and before the Babylonian times back to the original lie, "ye shall be as gods" in The Garden when man succumbed to the idea that he could supplant God and be judge and jury. The word vengeance, rightfully so, means justice but only God is perfect enough to render proper justice. The prisons have always been full of people who felt, "I had a right to kill that slob!" The law is not for those that live above the law but for those beneath it, it is a dividing line showing us not how high we can go but rather where the cut-off point is that tells us we can go no lower.

 

[TwinCrier]

punches are never needed. Jesus rebuked Peter for cutting off the high priest's servant's ear in self defence.

The priest's servant didn't attack, so it it wasn't self defense. They were there to arrest Jesus and Peter had no authority to mutilate the man, even if the charges were unjust.

 

[Faith In God]

The priest's servant didn't attack, so it it wasn't self defense. They were there to arrest Jesus and Peter had no authority to mutilate the man, even if the charges were unjust.

in defense for His master. Peter's intentions were not self centered, you are right, but even with good reason we are not to resort to violence.

 

[Pilgrim 33]

even with good reason we are not to resort to violence.

Oh, I think if someone sought to bring harm or death to you or a loved one violence is most assuredly in order; it's called self-preservation, something God apparently instilled within us at creation.

Passivity was not the message Jesus brought. How we might (abundantly!) live beyond the grave was (and is) His message.

 

[Flynmonkie]

This is interesting because it can have so many different levels of understanding. For me, I ask myself......how many times did Jesus say we are to forgive?
Matthew 18:21
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 18 In context: Matthew 18:20-22)


Luke 17:4
If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."
(Whole Chapter: Luke 17 In context: Luke 17:3-5)


Can you count how many times that is??? Unlimited times!!!

This is how I relate to the verse "Turn the other cheek" I think it is self explanatory.

Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 5 In context: Matthew 5:38-40)


Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 6 In context: Luke 6:28-30)

This was a really difficult thing for me as that during a time in my life both of my cheeks were becoming blistered! I do believe that there are boundries that you should set for yourself in this. But each individual has their own situations. As we know God values Human Life and we should defend others etc.. But I think this is an age old question for many.

For me, for the most part, I believe by following Jesus example with prayer, God is Sovereign and in Control. He will not let anything happen to you. It is all about Faith to me. IMHO what do you think Pilgram?

 

[Faith In God]

Oh, I think if someone sought to bring harm or death to you or a loved one violence is most assuredly in order; it's called self-preservation, something God apparently instilled within us at creation.

Passivity was not the message Jesus brought. How we might (abundantly!) live beyond the grave was (and is) His message.

Jesus was violent, yes, but only in the temple, and even then, He did not harm anyone. Jesus rebuked Peter for trying to protect His master from an unlawful arrest.

 

[Pilgrim 33]

This is interesting because it can have so many different levels of understanding. For me, I ask myself......how many times did Jesus say we are to forgive?
Matthew 18:21
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 18 In context: Matthew 18:20-22)


Luke 17:4
If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."
(Whole Chapter: Luke 17 In context: Luke 17:3-5)


Can you count how many times that is??? Unlimited times!!!

This is how I relate to the verse "Turn the other cheek" I think it is self explanatory.

Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 5 In context: Matthew 5:38-40)


Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 6 In context: Luke 6:28-30)

This was a really difficult thing for me as that during a time in my life both of my cheeks were becoming blistered! I do believe that there are boundries that you should set for yourself in this. But each individual has their own situations. As we know God values Human Life and we should defend others etc.. But I think this is an age old question for many.

For me, for the most part, I believe by following Jesus example with prayer, God is Sovereign and in Control. He will not let anything happen to you. It is all about Faith to me. IMHO what do you think Pilgram?

Hello Flynmonkie,

3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

We can forgive him in our heart as well as before God but if he does not repent we cannot forgive him directly. I think the thrust here is the offender's heart, not ours, thus the focus is different, ie it is no longer on the offended.

Indeed, if we cannot let go (before God) then the sin is, in essence, passed on to us and festers and grows within us thereby separating us from God.

The phrase, "resist not evil" is, I think, often too misunderstood, we were not created nor meant to be passive punching bags; "resist", in this context appears to have a meaning more on the line of 'destroy' and, more specifically, 'pull down', which implies an active opposition as compared to passivity (for clarity sake, think Hollywood and phrases like 'the underground resistance").

Also, 'evil', in the context used ("resist not evil"), means 'harmful thing working mischief, evil intent' which not only focuses in on what kind of evil... ...but also (the phrase, "resist not evil", itself) seems to be telling us where our true focus should be and, that, not on the evil, but on what is Godly for if we 'contend' with evil, ie seek to destroy and tear it down then not only is our focus off of what is Godly but also we have assumed the judicial response (vengeance is Mine saith The Lord) which is God's alone. For example, telling demons or evil thoughts (where the battleground truly is, in our mind and not with those around us) to depart is one thing, to actively seek out those within the confines of the demonic realm and to contend with them is not something we are instructed to do.

Even after we are saved we sin (indeed, perhaps even more so after salvation for we are more aware of it) countless times daily and if we can come countless times to The Master repenting and seeking (see the formula we are to follow with others?) forgiveness knowing He will continually forgive us is, in this respect, the lesson behind the 'seventy times seven' and, also, the unjust steward...

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

The phrase, from your hearts, seems to be telling us we must be willing to let go of our brother's trespasses, as used here, can mean either an unintentional error or a wilful transgression.

However, and this throws even greater focus in, for it speaks of our brother, ie fellowservent, (the true audience was TO the Jews with secondary application TO those, later to be, in Christ) and not non-Jews or those of the unsaved in the world, and this seems confirmed in vs 16-17 ("two or three witnesses" and "tell it unto the church" and, yet, we are to treat the unsaved the same, at the least, from the heart.

The crux, as I see it, in understanding this "turn the other cheek" issue is neither passivity (beat me unendingly to a pulp) or aggressive (burn the witch!) but, rather, hidden within the Eleventh Commandment, "Thou shalt think dirty" contained within...

Matthew 10:16, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves"...

...not that we should 'do' dirty but that we should be aware of the wiles and devices contained within The Evil One's world and, rather than resist (ie contend and 'war' with) its evil, instead, recognize, be prepared for it and avoid it and simply continue on through life without getting sidetracked thereby keeping our focus on Jesus and what is right and Godly.