If sabbath was a creation ordinance...........

[from scratch]

The sabbath isn't mentioned prior to the exodus from Egyptian bondage, for the reason that the exodus is the impetus to ordain the sabbath, as Deuteronomy 5:15 shows. The impetus always precedes the result. You can wait 3 years or 300 years, and no one is going to change this fact of the Law's testimony regarding itself.

That's right and the reason Bob won't quote the Sabbath in Genesis? He can't cause it isn't there.

 

[Sophrosyne]

That's right and the reason Bob won't quote the Sabbath in Genesis? He can't cause it isn't there.

The Sabbath in Genesis isn't a cyclical weekly version God only DID (not kept) it once and as far as we can see he hasn't been creating another 6 days to need to "keep" another Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath in Genesis isn't a cyclical weekly .

Until you read Gen 2:1-3 where it is the "seventh day" that is made holy and blessed - just as in Ex 20:11. Same language. Same facts. Same God. Same event -

Thus even before Ex 20 - in Ex 16 the weekly Sabbath is in force.

And as even the Sunday Sources admit - the Sabbath as God gave it in eden - the seventh day - kept by the saints all through the OT - was the Seventh day of the week - not week-day-1.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The sabbath isn't mentioned prior to the exodus from Egyptian bondage, .

until you notice the Bible details in this post -

God says it is in Gen 2:3.

When God summarizes Gen 1-2:3 in Ex 20:11 He specifically says it is in Gen 2:3.

We need to believe "God" -- as it turns out.

And Christ affirms it in Mark 2:27 speaking both of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Creation week "the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind".

So obvious - even many Sunday Sources get this Bible point - of the Sabbath starting in Eden.



Oh Good -- Bible quotes instead of tired old "man made tradition" about the Commandments of God supposedly being dead.

Christ affirms it in Mark 2:27 speaking both of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Creation week "the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Ex 20:11 "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed THE Sabbath day and made it holy." That is what God said He did in Gen 2:3.

Gen 2:1-3

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

"And Sanctified it" -- "And made it Holy" -- the same word.

No wonder even Sunday Sources - admit to the Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3 kept by the saints from Eden onward in the OT.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Until you read Gen 2:1-3 where it is the "seventh day" that is made holy and blessed - just as in Ex 20:11. Same language. Same facts. Same God. Same event -

Thus even before Ex 20 - in Ex 16 the weekly Sabbath is in force.

And as even the Sunday Sources admit - the Sabbath as God gave it in eden - the seventh day - kept by the saints all through the OT - was the Seventh day of the week - not week-day-1.

in Christ,

Bob

So using this example of a Sabbath man works 6 days and rests till he drops dead.... ok.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't see the "drop dead" text. You appear to be "quoting you".

Also notice that in the Gen 1-2:3 God works six days and rests - Adam is made on day 6. and then rests on day 7. In Ex 20:8-11 man is to follow the example and Ex 20:11 say the "Reason" for that is based on Gen 2:1-3 "alone".

So it is not surprising that the same word for blessed and sanctified is used in both Gen 2:3 and in Ex 20:11 for that same event in time.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[from scratch]

The Sabbath in Genesis isn't a cyclical weekly version God only DID (not kept) it once and as far as we can see he hasn't been creating another 6 days to need to "keep" another Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

Until you read Gen 2:1-3 where it is the "seventh day" that is made holy and blessed - just as in Ex 20:11. Same language. Same facts. Same God. Same event -

Thus even before Ex 20 - in Ex 16 the weekly Sabbath is in force.

And as even the Sunday Sources admit - the Sabbath as God gave it in eden - the seventh day - kept by the saints all through the OT - was the Seventh day of the week - not week-day-1.

in Christ,

Bob

Ex 20 shows a reason for the Sabbath. It makes no declaration the 7th day of creation is or was the Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

until you notice the Bible details in this post -



No wonder even Sunday Sources - admit to the Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3 kept by the saints from Eden onward in the OT.

There is nothing to indicate man participated in anything on the 7th day of creation. Nor is there and anything to show man did such on a weekly basis and for that matter any periodic basis.

If the Sabbath was made for man as you suggest, pray tell why Moses said it was a sign to Israel of the covenant. Moses is saying the Sabbath is special and exclusive. Why did Ezekiel say the Sabbath was given to them? Your meaning is in conflict with the Bible. So are Moses and Ezekiel credible? According to you Jesus says no. I don't think you understand what this does to your argument.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I don't see the "drop dead" text. You appear to be "quoting you".

Also notice that in the Gen 1-2:3 God works six days and rests - Adam is made on day 6. and then rests on day 7. In Ex 20:8-11 man is to follow the example and Ex 20:11 say the "Reason" for that is based on Gen 2:1-3 "alone".

So it is not surprising that the same word for blessed and sanctified is used in both Gen 2:3 and in Ex 20:11 for that same event in time.

in Christ,

Bob

It doesn't say Adam rests on day 7 in the Bible, I see nothing about Adam being commanded to rest or observing a rest on that day at all show me where God told Adam to rest when he (God) rested. I used drop dead to emphasize that man couldn't rest like God is resting he died and God seems to still have stopped working after his creating here.

 

[from scratch]

I don't see the "drop dead" text. You appear to be "quoting you".

Also notice that in the Gen 1-2:3 God works six days and rests - Adam is made on day 6. and then rests on day 7. In Ex 20:8-11 man is to follow the example and Ex 20:11 say the "Reason" for that is based on Gen 2:1-3 "alone".

So it is not surprising that the same word for blessed and sanctified is used in both Gen 2:3 and in Ex 20:11 for that same event in time.

in Christ,

Bob

Did God return to work? Notice there is no end of day 7 in creation. The word shabat is a verb and not a noun. Its also not periodic or a length of time. The word means cease like in a court order cease and desist which means stop and don't do again. The Bible also says this about the Sabbath.

 

[maco]

The words sacred and holy have meaning and value to God's people even without a law.

 

[VictorC]

The sabbath isn't mentioned prior to the exodus from Egyptian bondage, for the reason that the exodus is the impetus to ordain the sabbath, as Deuteronomy 5:15 shows. The impetus always precedes the result. You can wait 3 years or 300 years, and no one is going to change this fact of the Law's testimony regarding itself.

until you notice the Bible details in this post -

Which doesn't mention Deuteronomy 5:15 at all. This verse shows that the exodus from Egyptian bondage came before the sabbath existed. Exodus 20:11 uses the same sentence structure that shows the seventh day of the creation account came before the sabbath existed. Genesis 2:2-3 shows the seventh day of the creation account was God's rest, a singular event in history that never repeated. Mark 2:27 differentiates the sabbath apart from God's rest, proving that the seventh day of the creation account wasn't the sabbath.

You didn't even comment on Deuteronomy 5:15. You simply discarded it because you can't reconcile your opinion with the Ten Commandments.

No wonder even Sunday Sources - admit to the Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3 kept by the saints from Eden onward in the OT.

Your approach is to assume that it is fine to construct an argument that is dependent on the premise that the Law contradicts the Law, and then run away from the Law and replace it with uninspired commentary. If you don't believe the Law, a claim to comply with it becomes absurd.

 

[Daniel Stinson]

Why did Jesus say tell the Pharisees; the reason you circumcise on the Sabbath is because circumcision was passed down from the fathers?

Jhn 7:22[/URL]
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Jhn 7:23[/URL]
If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

It seems clear to understand that Sabbath was not passed down from the fathers or Jesus would not have reference that circumcision was passed down. Jesus acknowledged that the reason that circumcision took precedence on the Sabbath is because it was passed down from the fathers before Moses.

Some try to distance the law of Moses from the law of God because arguments creates the confusion to ignore bible truth for a lie.

(Please keep this discussion about the scriptures proving Sabbath, circumcision and the law.)

(Genesis 17:12) He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring,

(Colossians 2:16) Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

 

[VictorC]

So using this example of a Sabbath man works 6 days and rests till he drops dead.... ok.

The problem you point out here is perfectly valid, consistent with the singular nature of God's rest and the singular seventh day of the creation account that was blessed in the singular. Bob doesn't recognize the problem he encounters, which is why his response to this looks like total bewilderment and cognitive meltdown.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The problem you point out here is perfectly valid, consistent with the singular nature of God's rest and the singular seventh day of the creation account that was blessed in the singular. Bob doesn't recognize the problem he encounters, which is why his response to this looks like total bewilderment and cognitive meltdown.

It is simply called... Eisegis.

 

[BobRyan]

Your approach is to assume that it is fine to construct an argument that is dependent on the premise that the Law contradicts the Law, and then run away from the Law

Certainly that is an interesting fiction.

I for one am thankful that the list of Sunday Sources do not buy into it when they affirm ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by VictorC

The sabbath isn't mentioned prior to the exodus from Egyptian bondage, .
​

until you notice the Bible details in this post -

Originally Posted by BobRyan

God says it is in Gen 2:3.

When God summarizes Gen 1-2:3 in Ex 20:11 He specifically says it is in Gen 2:3.

We need to believe "God" -- as it turns out.

And Christ affirms it in Mark 2:27 speaking both of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Creation week "the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind".

So obvious - even many Sunday Sources get this Bible point - of the Sabbath starting in Eden.



Oh Good -- Bible quotes instead of tired old "man made tradition" about the Commandments of God supposedly being dead.

Christ affirms it in Mark 2:27 speaking both of the making of mankind and the making of the Sabbath in Creation week "the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Ex 20:11 "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed THE Sabbath day and made it holy." That is what God said He did in Gen 2:3.

Gen 2:1-3

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

"And Sanctified it" -- "And made it Holy" -- the same word.


​

No wonder even Sunday Sources - admit to the Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3 kept by the saints from Eden onward in the OT.

Which doesn't mention Deuteronomy 5:15 at all.

Hint: Deut 5 is not the great "edit/delete/rewrite" that some of those who oppose God's Ten Commandments have at first imagined to themselves.

Notice Deut taking place 40 years later and not at all written in stone starts off with this preface.

Deut 4
12 And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice. 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Written where? -- "on two tablets of stone" -- still upheld by Moses as such in Deuteronomy 4 and 5. (No imagining wild fictions about contradictions).

Then in Deut 5 again Moses points them BACK to the "two tables of stone" and the words that were spoken then.

22 These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

In Deut 5:12 - Moses said that the 4th commandment is specifically supposed to be kept AS it was given AT Sinai!


12 ‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.

In Deut 5 Moses ADDs reasons for Israel to keep the Sabbath - he does not subtract from them.

And Moses reminds them that ALL of the MORAL law is prefaced with God's work of deliverance. Not "just the 4th commandment"


6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

Deuteronomy is not the friend of the false doctrine some would teach - about the need to be at war with God's TEN Commandments

in Christ,

Bob

 

[VictorC]

Certainly that is an interesting fiction.
...
Hint: Deut 5 is not the great "edit/delete/rewrite" that some of those who oppose God's Ten Commandments have at first imagined to themselves.

It isn't 'fiction' that you're still opposed to the testimony presented in the Ten Commandments. Instead of lengthy deflection, you should deal with the content of my post.

 

[from scratch]

The words sacred and holy have meaning and value to God's people even without a law.

So what's your point if you have one?