If One Believes in Intelligent Design...

[theophilus777]

Those are the ways in which the disease spread - that is not whose fault it is. If you believe that Yahweh created everything, then it is Yahweh's fault because he purposefully designed a horrible, torturous disease that spread through the means you have suggested (plus rats). And He unleashed this disease among people who had no way of knowing how it spread.

And yet if those people had kept kosher it would have been impossible for that disease to spread like that. Funny that. Surely you are aware of this, why don't you account for it?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Wow, you managed not to actually manage the creature that spread the disease, rats and the fleas they carried.

The plague is still being studied. Rats and fleas alone cannot account for the speed that the disease spread. Also researchers believe that the 'plague' involved more diseases than just bubonic plague. As noted much of the world was primed for some kind of disease outbreak.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Those are the ways in which the disease spread - that is not whose fault it is. If you believe that Yahweh created everything, then it is Yahweh's fault because he purposefully designed a horrible, torturous disease that spread through the means you have suggested (plus rats). And He unleashed this disease among people who had no way of knowing how it spread.

As noted these conditions were created by people themselves ("for finding fault with them......"), thus triggering the outbreak of disease. People were abysmally ignorant of hygiene and sanitation, even until the early twentieth century. Where I live the city was still discharging raw sewerage into our lakes as late as 1900.

http://www.madsewer.org/About-Us/Who-We-Are/History

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And yet if those people had kept kosher it would have been impossible for that disease to spread like that. Funny that. Surely you are aware of this, why don't you account for it?

Very true. Israel was given explicit instructions regarding hygiene, even though they might not have fully understood the reasons.


Deuteronomy 23:12-14

12 "Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:

13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

14 For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee."


Instructions regarding bathing, hand washing, washing clothing, and temporary quarantine, are given throughout Leviticus. Sadly the medieval church regarded such instructions too 'jewish', and summarily rejected these practices, and everyone paid a frightful price.

 

[theophilus777]

Very true. Israel was given explicit instructions regarding hygiene, even though they might not have fully understood the reasons.


Deuteronomy 23:12-14

12 "Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:

13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

14 For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee."


Instructions regarding bathing, hand washing, washing clothing, and temporary quarantine, are given throughout Leviticus. Sadly the medieval church regarded such instructions too 'jewish', and summarily rejected these practices, and everyone paid a frightful price.

Exactly. It would NOT have prevented the black death from ever occurring, but sanitary conditions would've also decreased the rat population, and at least kept them farther away from people's homes. Even just hand washing would've minimized diseased spread considerably.

On a theological note, replacement theology is anti-semitic. Doing away with all things Jewish is foolish. And of course there is also the over-reaction to that, with some Christians trying to pretend they are Jews, and not even calling themselves Christians ... although seriously attempting to emulate Christ is quite honorable. And learning of His culture enriches our understanding of the Gospel, and all of Scripture.

 

[juvenissun]

... does that also mean they believe the designer was intimately involved in creating a wasp's stinger, a viper's venom, malaria, viruses, and neurotoxins? There are millions of ways organisms out there cause pain and suffering... an intelligent designer would have had to design all these agonizing delivery systems.

The question is more philosophical than scientific because this thread is not about the probability of Intelligent Design, but simply the philosophical implications of the belief.

Those designs are not made to cause any pain to anyone.
Educate yourself.

 

[digitalgoth]

Those designs are not made to cause any pain to anyone.
Educate yourself.

Just curious, why were those things made?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Just curious, why were those things made?

To place the earth in bondage.

Romans 8:20-22

20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."


It is this bondage that God instructs us to subdue.
Genesis 1:28

28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Thankfully many nations are starting to get that message given to man 6000 years ago.

 

[juvenissun]

Just curious, why were those things made?

How old are you? If less then 5, I will tell you why.

 

[BL2KTN]

The point remains... if one believes that Yahweh created everything, one must also believe that Yahweh designed millions of purposefully painful, horrible diseases, pains, etc.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The point remains... if one believes that Yahweh created everything, one must also believe that Yahweh designed millions of purposefully painful, horrible diseases, pains, etc.

Of course he did, and he told us to avoid them ("Narrow is the way and strait is the gate.....").

 

[BL2KTN]

I see nothing about how to avoid poison ivy.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I see nothing about how to avoid poison ivy.

Watch where you're walking. Stay on the trail, or wear long pants.

"See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,"
Ephesians 5:15

This means to pay careful attention to everything around you; people, plants, animals, food and drink, edges of cliffs, sinkholes, falling objects, goofy ideas, temptations, etc.