If men are justified by faith alone (Sola Fide)...?

[Albion]

Justification by faith does not equate justification by faith alone.

That's a question.

But it certainly does not equate to Faith plus (fill in the blank) does it?

Lack of evidence for the labels "transubstantiation" and "purgatory" does not prove your position.

That's why I did not use such an argument. Neither existed (nor did other examples that could have been used as well such as Papal Infallibility or the Assumption). So I was referring to the beliefs, not just to the terms.

Here I quote evidence to support my position:
""Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

There are innumerable references to be found to the doctrine of the Real Presence. It was to Transubstantiation that I referred.

"The concept of an after-death purification from sin and the consequences of sin is also stated in the New Testament in passages such as 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 and Matthew 5:25–26, 12:31–32.

None of which even come remotely close to the doctrine of Purgatory. (As a matter of fact, you virtually admit it by referring me to an article entitled The Roots of Purgatory. Not to Purgatory, but to the "Roots" of Purgatory.)

 

[Thursday]

I called it a strawman argument for good reason. No one says that a dead faith saves--not Luther, not the Reformation, not anyone posting on this thread, no one.

So knock that idea down if you wish, but there's almost no one to be refuted by it.

Then why do you say that salvation is by faith alone? It clearly is NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

 

[Albion]

Then why do you say that salvation is by faith alone? It clearly is NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Salvation IS by Faith Alone. There are other things that affect Faith. For example, it's possible only because there is a God. Only sentient beings are capable of having Faith. Faith produces works. And so on.

But when it comes to what the active factor is--it's Faith and it only. We do not earn salvation by going to Communion or helping the poor or becoming monks, or by anything else we do. None of it can put away God's righteous judgment against sin. Our only avenue of escape from sin is to appropriate the good that Jesus did, the price he paid for sin, and that is done by Faith.

An argument can be made that all those other things are good in themselves, are beneficial, are Godly, are just or what Jesus would do, etc. But when it comes to salvation, it's only by the sacrifice of Jesus that God and Man are reconciled.

 

[DRobert]

That's a question.

But it certainly does not equate to Faith plus (fill in the blank) does it?



That's why I did not use such an argument. Neither existed (nor did other examples that could have been used as well such as Papal Infallibility or the Assumption). So I was referring to the beliefs, not just to the terms.


There are innumerable references to be found to the doctrine of the Real Presence. It was to Transubstantiation that I referred.


None of which even come remotely close to the doctrine of Purgatory. (As a matter of fact, you virtually admit it by referring me to an article entitled The Roots of Purgatory. Not to Purgatory, but to the "Roots" of Purgatory.)

My first question is are you EVEN interested in the claims of the Catholic Church on the matter or will you just dismiss anything that differs from your view? Here are two links that you may find helpful on the subject of Purgatory.

Purgatory | Catholic Answers

Is Purgatory in the Bible? | Catholic Answers

You won't find the word "Trinty" in Sacred Scripture, however the doctrine of the Trinity draws upon Sacred Scripture and is a doctrine of faith. Likewise, there is also a biblical basis for Purgatory and the Catholic belief in the real presence in the Eucharist.

 

[Albion]

My first question is are you EVEN interested in the claims of the Catholic Church on the matter or will you just dismiss anything that differs from your view?

You talk as though no one who is not a card-carrying member of the Roman Catholic Church can possibly know the first thing about the Catholic Church, its teachings or history!!

That might be amusing--and the gratuitous instructions for me to turn to "Catholic Answers" as though that site even spoke officially for the Church--except that I realize this idea is taught in Catholic circles. Anyone who takes exception to any Catholic teaching must be uninformed about it. Right?

So just state your case and respond to my comments like any discussion would involve.

You won't find the word "Trinty" in Sacred Scripture

Didn't I point out in the previous post that I was not referring to the term but to the belief(s)? Yes, I did. So this is the third time of my explaining that to you.

 

[AvgJoe]

1. Jesus said we must do the will of the Father.

For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day (John 6:40).

2. Faith alone did not save the goats; Jesus said he never knew them.

The goats never had faith. They were unbelievers, condemned and lost. Jesus knows who are His (John 10:14) and Jesus never knew the goats so they were never His, were never believers and never had faith.

3. James says faith without works is dead.

Albion has already given a thorough explanation for this one.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Faith Alone...

FAITH does not "knock on doors". It is given as a spiritual Gift from God. Ephesians 2.

Spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF is where Man's Spirit, called and drawn by God's Grace, leads to salvation.

Objectively, FAITH stands for the sum of truths revealed by God in Scripture and tradition and which the Church presents (RCC)

Subjectively, FAITH stands for the habit or virtue by which we assent to those truths.(RCC)

(Saving) FAITH without (spiritually guided and following good ) WORKS is DEAD (judged spiritually useless)...paraphrase of James

To me, "Belief" and "Faith" as used in the New Testament are almost identical in meaning and synonymous.

"Believe" occurs 152 times in 140 verses in the NASB...mostly in the NT.

G4103 pistos (pe-sto's) = ~faithful, believe, believing, true, faithfully, believer, sure

G4100 pisteuo (pe-styü'-o) = ~believe, commit unto, commit to (one's) trust, be committed unto, be put in trust with, be committed to one's trust, believer

John 1:12 (NASB)
...But as many as RECEIVED Him (spiritually!), to them He gave the right to become children of God ,
even to those who BELIEVE (G4100) in His NAME

"Faith" occurs 250 times in 232 verses in the NASB ...all but 4 verses in the NT.

G4102 pistis (pe'-stes) = ~faith, assurance, believe, belief, them that believe, fidelity

Ephesians 2:8 (NASB)

For by GRACE (unmerited favor) you have been SAVED through FAITH (from eternal death by BELIEF in Jesus the God-Man)
and that (faith) not of yourselves (human "belief"),
it is the (spiritual) GIFT of God ;

I believe / rely on an excellent Bible scholar's statement:

"The CONDITION(S) for SALVATION...
Salvation is conditioned solely on spirit-led FAITH / (BELIEF) in Jesus The Christ. ("repentance" may be a SYNONYM when understood to be a "re-thinking and a "turning around")
Nearly 200 times spirit-led FAITH /BELIEF is stated as the single condition in the New Testament.
That FAITH must be placed in Jesus the Christ, the Divine Messiah as one's substitute FOR and Savior FROM sin (/sins)...

There have developed several FALSE additions to FAITH, E.G....1. ritual water baptism 2. worthiness/purification by works 3. public confession 4. dedication: LORD and savior 5.ETC (see my list in other threads!)
REF: Ryrie Study Bible...expanded NASB...p. 2073 with my comments

John 6: 27-29 (NASB)...Jesus on WORKS = BELIEF
Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, (salvation!)
which the Son of Man will GIVE to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

Therefore they said to Him,

"What shall we do, so that we may WORK the WORKS of God?"

Jesus answered and said to them,
"This is the WORK of God, that you BELIEVE in Him whom He has sent."
Matthew 9:13 : Mark 2:17: Luke 5:32

But go and learn what this means:
‘I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to CALL the righteous, but sinners."

Matthew 22:14
For many are CALLED, but few are chosen."

John 10 : 2-4, 7, 9, 11, 27-30 (NASB)...Jesus: Parable of the Good Shepherd / The Door
But he who enters by the "door" (God the Son, Jesus) is a shepherd of the sheep (believers).
To him the doorkeeper (God the Father) opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he CALLS his own sheep by name and leads them out.(salvation)
When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep FOLLOW him because they know his voice. (sanctification)...

So Jesus said to them again,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep...I am the door;
if anyone enters THROUGH Me,
he will be SAVED, and will go in and out and find pasture....

"I am the good shepherd;
the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep...
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
and I GIVE eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." (spiritual essence)

Hebrews 11 (NASB) ...Biblical examples of The Triumphs of FAITH
Now FAITH is the (spiritual) assurance of things HOPED for,
the CONVICTION of things (+ truths) not seen.(nor proven!)
For by it (faith) the "men of old" (OT heroes) gained approval. ( AND mankind today gains salvation)

Hebrews 11:6
And without (spirit-led) FAITH it is impossible to please Him,
for he who comes to God must (spiritually) BELIEVE that He IS
and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through FAITH in Christ Jesus,
even we have BELIEVED in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by FAITH in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Romans 3: 21-32...Justification by Faith
...22 even the (imputed) righteousness of God through FAITH in Jesus Christ for all those who BELIEVE; for there is no distinction;

1 Peter 1 (NASB)
20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
21 who through Him are BELIEVERS in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory,so that your FAITH and hope are in God.

Acts 16... Paul and Silas Imprisoned and the supernatural release!
29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

The Jailer Converted

31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Romans 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

[Ron Gurley]

James 2:22 (NASB)
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, aith was perfected;(matured)

Romans 3:20
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight;for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified (saved) by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works,
he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Romans 4:13,16
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was NOT through the (Mosaic)Law, but through the righteousness of faith....
For this reason it is by faith,
in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants,
not only to those who are OF the Law,
but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

 

[hedrick]

Then why do you say that salvation is by faith alone? It clearly is NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Please guys, get it right. *Justification* by faith alone, not salvation by faith alone.

 

[AvgJoe]

It is true that salvation is given to whoever believes in Him,

Sounds like we're saying the same things, with this first part being justification. We are justified, declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation. Justification does not make us righteous, but rather pronounces us righteous. Our righteousness comes from placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. His sacrifice covers our sin, allowing God to see us as perfect and unblemished. Because as believers we are in Christ, God sees Christ's own righteousness when He looks at us. This meets God's demands for perfection; thus, He declares us righteous—He justifies us.

but when we correctly understand what we should be believing about Him, then it involves our obedience. In other words, we can't believe that Jesus is Lord without submitting to him as Lord. Likewise, when we correctly understand what grace is, then it also involves our obedience. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and being trained to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful. We can not be fully saved from sin if we continue to do the things that God has revealed to be sin, so our salvation necessarily must involve being trained to obey God by grace through faith. As Ephesians 2:8-10 is saying, we have been saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but we are made new creations in Christ for the purpose of doing good works by grace through faith.

This 2nd part being the lifelong process of sanctification that begins the moment one is saved/justified. Sanctification is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one’s life. It is the same as growing in the Lord (2 Peter 3:18) or spiritual maturity. God started the work of making us like Christ, and He is continuing it (Philippians 1:6). This type of sanctification is to be pursued by the believer earnestly (1 Peter 1:15; Hebrews 12:14) and is effected by the application of the Word (John 17:17). Prior to salvation, our behavior bore witness to our standing in the world in separation from God, but now our behavior should bear witness to our standing before God in separation from the world. Little by little, every day, “those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14, ESV) are becoming more like Christ.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

If men are justified by faith alone (Sola Fide) then what does James 2:24mean when it says, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”?

"Martin Luther ADDED words to the Bible that were not there. When he was confronted with this sin of adding to the Bible he replied: "Bacause Dr. Martin Luther will have it so!"

"faith Alone" (Sola Fide) Should we believe in Martin Luther a man who admitted to adding the word "Alone" in Scripture which no man can add or subtract? or should we Listen to James 2:24?

Who do you and your church listen to, Martin Luther or James 2:24?

The Five Solas (note there are five so none are truly "alone") were like a Reformation creed, a summary interpretation; it was never intended to be regarded as scripture itself. So Luther and the other Reformers did not add anything to scripture.
Here is a reconciliation of James and Paul:

Grace yields faith yields works.
Real faith acts on what it believes—which turns the faith into works. The works themselves do not save, but real faith is always accompanied by works. It is the evidence of real faith. Anyone can say they have faith, but only God knows if it is real. Even Jesus told his disciples that they would know the tree by its fruit. Over time, faith will tell—by how a person lives. Is there love, peace, joy, kindness, endurance, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control? (see Galatians 5:22-23)

Then they asked Him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered and said to them, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” (John 6:28-29, NIV)

Human hubris and the temptation to pride (even spiritual pride) are so prevalent that, like the Pharisees, Christians can point to their publicly done good deeds and pat themselves on the back. Many of these, I believe, in the Last Analysis will turn out not to have been Christians at all.
This is why Paul emphasized the grace and sovereignty of God, God’s transforming power, and our faith in Christ (not faith in our works, but works coming from our faith). For works done for the wrong motivations (self-promoting) are never really “good” works. “Good” originally meant “of God.”
Works don’t save. Works are just signs (sometimes not even good signs because they can be so easily faked) of the faith that does save. Only God knows who is truly obedient and who does things for show; only God knows who loves Him and who is only gaming the ecclesiastic system for personal gain.
If you are focusing on obedience and works rather than relationship with Christ, then you might be a Christian Pharisee. Faith and intimacy with Christ changes us, empowers us with His grace to do truly good works. Grace yields faith ... which yields works. You cannot get these out of order without significant error.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The goats never had faith. They were unbelievers, condemned and lost.

Unbelievers because they didn't do as they were expected to do....the works.

Otherwise why wasn't the parable about unbelievers period? Why bother with all the going on about feeding the poor? While instead it was about the details that rendered them not true beleivers, as they clearly thought they were believers.

Let's simplify this... can you make it to heaven with no works/not taking care of the poor?

 

[Kenny'sID]

31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.

Define "believe" as in "Believe in the Lord Jesus". What does the term actually mean in that context?

 

[AvgJoe]

Unbelievers because they didn't do as they were expected to do....the works.

Otherwise why wasn't the parable about unbelievers period? Why bother with all the going on about feeding the poor? While instead it was about the details that rendered them not true beleivers, as they clearly thought they were believers.

Let's simplify this... can you make it to heaven with no works/not taking care of the poor?

In the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, we are looking at man redeemed and saved, and man condemned and lost. A casual reading seems to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. The “sheep” acted charitably, giving food, drink, and clothing to "the least of these". The “goats” showed no charity. This seems to result in salvation for the sheep and damnation for the goats.

However, Scripture does not contradict itself, and the Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that salvation is by faith through the grace of God and not by our good works (see John 1:12; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22-24; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 7:24-25; Romans 8:12; Galatians 3:6-9 & Ephesians 2:8-10). In fact, Jesus Himself makes it clear in the parable that the salvation of the “sheep” is not based on their works—their inheritance was theirs “since the creation of the world” (Matthew 25:34), long before they could ever do any good works!

And who are “the least of these” anyway? Many assume that they are the poor and marginalized people of the world. But are those who Jesus is really talking about? Matthew 25 gives few clues as to who “the least of these” are. They’re described only as hungry, thirsty, homeless, naked, sick, and imprisoned.

A common practice of biblical interpretation is this: If we don’t understand something in a specific passage, we need to study the surrounding text—whether it be the immediate chapter or the larger book. So who else in Matthew went hungry, thirsty, homeless, naked, sick, and imprisoned? We find such a group in Matthew 10:1–42, where Jesus sends out the 12 disciples to preach about the kingdom.

Parallels abound between Jesus’ words in Matthew 10 and the description of “the least of these” in chapter 25. In chapter 10, the disciples had no money, bag for food, or drink (vv. 9–10; compare to the hungry and thirsty in ch. 25). They had no extra clothing (v. 10; the naked in ch. 25), and they had no home to stay in (vv. 11–14; the strangers in ch. 25). Jesus said they would often be arrested (vv. 17–20; the prisoners in ch. 25). Even the order of these circumstances is a near match. Also recurring is the idea that one’s response to Jesus’ representatives is a response to Jesus himself: “Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me” (10:40). And the rewards language in chapter 10 is conspicuously similar, “And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward” (v. 42).

The parallels between the two passages are no accident and make a strong case that the same group is in mind. The “least of these my brothers” are the disciples, followers of Jesus who carry his message. Jesus’ “brothers” in the Gospel of Matthew are always his disciples (12:48–50; 28:10). That specific language is used of no one else.

This understanding not only has biblical warrant, but also avoids placing unseemly tension between Jesus and Paul regarding salvation. If “the least of these” are the poor and marginalized people of the world , then according to Jesus, individual salvation depends on works. It’s difficult, therefore, to reconcile those readings of Matthew 25 with Paul’s teaching: that we are saved by God's grace, through faith, not by anything we do (Ephesians 2:8–9).

However, if “the least of these” are Jesus’ messengers, then one’s salvation is dependent upon his or her response to the proclamation of the gospel, which accords with Paul’s teaching. It is, therefore, ultimately a question of their relationship to Jesus himself.” We don’t have to be terrified that our salvation is at risk if we pass by a poor person on the street. And traveling full circle, while Scripture doesn’t identify “the least of these” as the poor and needy, in no way does it diminish the biblical mandate to care for the marginalized and underprivileged. Our actions matter, but they do not contribute anything to our salvation.

 

[Albion]

Define "believe" as in "Believe in the Lord Jesus". What does the term actually mean in that context?

It's an important question, so I'm glad you asked it, Kenny. "Believe in" here means to really trust in the Lord as the Messiah and one's Savior.

It does not mean merely to assent to him and let it go at that. This is another of those words that we use these days in a more casual sense than our predecessors once did, but many people misunderstand the meaning for that reason.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It's an important question, so I'm glad you asked it, Kenny. "Believe in" here means to really trust in the Lord as the Messiah and one's Savior.

It does not mean merely to assent to him and let it go at that. This is another of those words that we use these days in a more casual sense than our predecessors once did, but many people misunderstand the meaning for that reason.

I think there are a few reasons it's misunderstood, but yeah, I agree. To believe would be to believe in all that Christ is about and all he says to to, not just enough to feel we're getting by.

 

[Kenny'sID]

In the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, we are looking at man redeemed and saved, and man condemned and lost. A casual reading seems to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. The “sheep” acted charitably, giving food, drink, and clothing to "the least of these". The “goats” showed no charity. This seems to result in salvation for the sheep and damnation for the goats.

However, Scripture does not contradict itself, and the Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that salvation is by faith through the grace of God and not by our good works (see John 1:12; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22-24; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 7:24-25; Romans 8:12; Galatians 3:6-9 & Ephesians 2:8-10). In fact, Jesus Himself makes it clear in the parable that the salvation of the “sheep” is not based on their works—their inheritance was theirs “since the creation of the world” (Matthew 25:34), long before they could ever do any good works!

And who are “the least of these” anyway? Many assume that they are the poor and marginalized people of the world. But are those who Jesus is really talking about? Matthew 25 gives few clues as to who “the least of these” are. They’re described only as hungry, thirsty, homeless, naked, sick, and imprisoned.

A common practice of biblical interpretation is this: If we don’t understand something in a specific passage, we need to study the surrounding text—whether it be the immediate chapter or the larger book. So who else in Matthew went hungry, thirsty, homeless, naked, sick, and imprisoned? We find such a group in Matthew 10:1–42, where Jesus sends out the 12 disciples to preach about the kingdom.

Parallels abound between Jesus’ words in Matthew 10 and the description of “the least of these” in chapter 25. In chapter 10, the disciples had no money, bag for food, or drink (vv. 9–10; compare to the hungry and thirsty in ch. 25). They had no extra clothing (v. 10; the naked in ch. 25), and they had no home to stay in (vv. 11–14; the strangers in ch. 25). Jesus said they would often be arrested (vv. 17–20; the prisoners in ch. 25). Even the order of these circumstances is a near match. Also recurring is the idea that one’s response to Jesus’ representatives is a response to Jesus himself: “Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me” (10:40). And the rewards language in chapter 10 is conspicuously similar, “And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward” (v. 42).

The parallels between the two passages are no accident and make a strong case that the same group is in mind. The “least of these my brothers” are the disciples, followers of Jesus who carry his message. Jesus’ “brothers” in the Gospel of Matthew are always his disciples (12:48–50; 28:10). That specific language is used of no one else.

This understanding not only has biblical warrant, but also avoids placing unseemly tension between Jesus and Paul regarding salvation. If “the least of these” are the poor and marginalized people of the world , then according to Jesus, individual salvation depends on works. It’s difficult, therefore, to reconcile those readings of Matthew 25 with Paul’s teaching: that we are saved by God's grace, through faith, not by anything we do (Ephesians 2:8–9).

However, if “the least of these” are Jesus’ messengers, then one’s salvation is dependent upon his or her response to the proclamation of the gospel, which accords with Paul’s teaching. It is, therefore, ultimately a question of their relationship to Jesus himself.” We don’t have to be terrified that our salvation is at risk if we pass by a poor person on the street. And traveling full circle, while Scripture doesn’t identify “the least of these” as the poor and needy, in no way does it diminish the biblical mandate to care for the marginalized and underprivileged. Our actions matter, but they do not contribute anything to our salvation.

Your first Paragraph would indicate it's read as good works alone...to be clear, that is not how I read it, or what I think. And the "faith" you mention entails more than just talk, it's more than just saying I have faith. We have faith in Christ, we believe him, we believe him then we do what he says, lest we end up a Goat and where the Goats were sent. I don't see how he could have possibly been more clear there. But alas, it will be rejected nonetheless fro reasons I already mentioned.

But in the end, my question remains, and if I missed your answer to it, I apologize.

Can we make it to heaven without doing the good works Christs speaks of in the Sheep/Goats scripture, or not?

 

[geiroffenberg]

If men are justified by faith alone (Sola Fide) then what does James 2:24mean when it says, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”?

"Martin Luther ADDED words to the Bible that were not there. When he was confronted with this sin of adding to the Bible he replied: "Bacause Dr. Martin Luther will have it so!"

"faith Alone" (Sola Fide) Should we believe in Martin Luther a man who admitted to adding the word "Alone" in Scripture which no man can add or subtract? or should we Listen to James 2:24?

Who do you and your church listen to, Martin Luther or James 2:24?

Martin luther never denied works. He denied works as part of receving rightouesness, but faith is then naturally proved by works as fruit.
The passage in james comfirms as it points to abraham who was declared rightoues by faith and then much later was proven to be rightoues because of his unusale work of obedience trough the sacrifice of isak. Thats an example of this concept. Without having the faith unto rightouesness he would not be able to see god as the lifegiver that would raise isak to life again. The contradiction between james definition of faith and protestantism is a myth. Luther at a time didnt like the letter of james, specifically because it didnt mention christ almost at all. But he did acknowledge it as part of his bible and did call it a fine epistle. Its so silly to make a "luther or the bible" accusation against our churches. No one said luther was right in everything, and if you know of a man who can explain evereything in the bible exactly right, then congratulations....you are seduced! Its not luhter or james, its the doctrine of "rigthouesness by faith without the works of the law" and that is not a quote from luther or james, but from paul. And that is a doctrine that god used, among others, martin luther to slam upon earth so hard we still are reeling from it.

 

[Albion]

Martin luther never denied works. He denied works as part of receving rightouesness, but faith is then naturally proved by works as fruit.

You're right of course, and the airy putdowns of Luther we read all the time show little evidence of the speaker having much knowledge of the situation in the early 1500s.

On this matter of faith and works, the belief was that you really could save yourself by doing works, especially religious acts. That's not helping the poor or distributing food or anything like that. I refer to saying certain prayers at certain places, etc., making a pilgrimage to a shrine, or the like. And if you did this, you were given an actual certificate like a bank note. Of course, contributing to the church's work was considered to be a good deed, so to purchase such a certificate was considered to be a good work in itself.

Anyone today who doesn't appreciate how far from Apostolic Christianity this stuff had gotten, or who thinks that no reform was needed in the Church, or who addresses the issue of Faith and Works as an abstract concept hasn't come to grips with the real facts of the matter.