If Jesus died for the whole world why isn't the whole world saved?

[mkgal1]

I can agree with that. People poorly taught, it is all about "them" RECEIVING something for nothing.

I would honestly say, most people calling themselves "Christians", and other people calling people "Christians" have very little understanding of the Christian Religion, let alone the understanding of the Word of God.

Well.....right now all we really have mostly is hearing of Him.....until we actually see Him in His glory--away from a corrupted society--I don't believe we can all actually respond properly.

Agree. The book is FULL of KNOWLEDGE, however the Wisdom and Understanding comes from God TO "His people".

When I wrote, "we're not to the end of the story yet" I meant that God isn't done with us--all of humanity-- yet (you'd said not every one has chosen Him). That's what I meant by "don't close the book just yet".....a metaphorical book.

IOW.....don't give up on hope.

 

[Andy centek]

Interesting responses.

Did Jesus say that he died for the entire world? Of did He say that He died for the remission of sin? He told His disciples not to go to the Gentiles when they were preaching in Judeah. That means that the Gentiles had not been offered spiritual salvation at that time.

Jesus said that He came unto His own, the people of Judeah, not all of Israel, for the northern kingdom of Israel had been dispersed throughout the world at that time.

Another things that has caused so many problems in the CHURCHES of today is, churches. If the Body of Jesus Christ is the true church, then why so many churches today? Because man seeks to do things their way instead of following the teaching which Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul to give to the Gentile world, as well as the converted Jews.

What was written to the Jews belongs to the Jews. What was written for the Gentile world by Paul belongs to all today who are called into the true church, the body of Christ.

Jesus nor Paul ever taught Denominations! Man created them for his own use.

Andy Centek

 

[Buzz_B]

Interesting responses.

Did Jesus say that he died for the entire world? Of did He say that He died for the remission of sin? He told His disciples not to go to the Gentiles when they were preaching in Judeah. That means that the Gentiles had not been offered spiritual salvation at that time.

Jesus said that He came unto His own, the people of Judeah, not all of Israel, for the northern kingdom of Israel had been dispersed throughout the world at that time.

Another things that has caused so many problems in the CHURCHES of today is, churches. If the Body of Jesus Christ is the true church, then why so many churches today? Because man seeks to do things their way instead of following the teaching which Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul to give to the Gentile world, as well as the converted Jews.

What was written to the Jews belongs to the Jews. What was written for the Gentile world by Paul belongs to all today who are called into the true church, the body of Christ.

Jesus nor Paul ever taught Denominations! Man created them for his own use.

Andy Centek

I agree with what you have said concerning denominations. They serve as proof of a divided Christ per 1 Cor chapter 1.

When we get into questions like, 'When were the gentiles offered salvation?' it is a matter of perspective. In reality all men were offered salvation from the beginning of the world when it was founded in sin by Adam's transgression. But with respect to God's unfolding his plan of salvation to the world in a way in which the world could understand it, it was first to the Jew and second to the gentile. This is why we see that the offer was first given by promise to the Jews even before they could secure it. For it took Christ's death for anyone to secure it. Thus we see that what was done with the Jews was for the purpose of pointing all men toward the one in whom the promise of salvation could be realized, even the Law being a tutor leading to Christ that all who put faith in him could be saved. All men of all races. A pondering of Galatians chapter 3 highlights that Christ came from the beginning to save all and not just the Jews.

 

[SBC]

Well.....right now all we really have mostly is hearing of Him.....until we actually see Him in His glory--away from a corrupted society--I don't believe we can all actually respond properly.

I believe Scripture reveals a great deal of Knowledge about Him, and not sure everyone can learn all of Scripture about Him, or try to.

But as far as Knowing Him; I don't believe I have to SEE Him to Know Him.

Seeing Him, certainly shall be Grand, which also means, our own bodies shall be glorified.

When I wrote, "we're not to the end of the story yet" I meant that God isn't done with us--all of humanity-- yet (you'd said not every one has chosen Him).

That's true. There are MANY, not yet naturally born, that are part of fulfilling prophecy.

That's what I meant by "don't close the book just yet".....a metaphorical book.

IOW.....don't give up on hope.

I believe:
All People will believe.
But not All People will be Saved.
But that All of Gods People will be Saved.

It's an in depth study.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[mkgal1]

But as far as Knowing Him; I don't believe I have to SEE Him to Know Him.

Seeing Him, certainly shall be Grand, which also means, our own bodies shall be glorified.

That's not really what I meant (that we need to see Him to know Him). Let me see if I can clarify. In our world right now.....there ARE "rewards" (to a certain degree) for those that walk all over others in order to get what they want (especially if they are covert about it).....there is also the hurt from others that make responding perfectly from a place of love a challenge.

However...I believe there will be a day where His righteousness will reign.....and the overall system will be one where love, mercy, compassion, self-control, etc will be valued....and THEN we can properly respond to Him.

 

[Ron Gurley]

God draws / calls the SPIRITs of ALL mankind to a “free will” decision about the voluntary blood sacrifice by Jesus the Divine Messiah, the God-Man FOR all sins FOR all men FOR All time.
Acceptance => Salvation and eternal spiritual heaven lies.
Rejection => Separation and eternity in the “lake
Of fire”.

Calvinistic doctrine of salvation only for the “elect” is a FALSE doctrine!!

 

[SBC]

That's not really what I meant (that we need to see Him to know Him). Let me see if I can clarify. In our world right now.....there ARE "rewards" (to a certain degree) for those that walk all over others in order to get what they want (especially if they are covert about it).....there is also the hurt from others that make responding perfectly from a place of love a challenge.

However...I believe there will be a day where His righteousness will reign.....and the overall system will be one where love, mercy, compassion, self-control, etc will be valued....and THEN we can properly respond to Him.

It did not sound like that to me.
I was not speaking of AFTER glorification, to know Him because we see Him.

I was speaking of now. Men who desire to KNOW Him, can KNOW Him without SEEING Him.

And some men can only KNOW ABOUT HIM, via hearing / reading ABOUT HIM.

What irked God, Ex 32:9
was a People agreeing
to Trust to Believe His Word, BY ONLY hearing HIS WORD, (while NOT SEEING HIM)
Ex 24:3
and then challenging to Trust His Word.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

That's not really what I meant (that we need to see Him to know Him). Let me see if I can clarify. In our world right now.....there ARE "rewards" (to a certain degree) for those that walk all over others in order to get what they want (especially if they are covert about it).....there is also the hurt from others that make responding perfectly from a place of love a challenge.

However...I believe there will be a day where His righteousness will reign.....and the overall system will be one where love, mercy, compassion, self-control, etc will be valued....and THEN we can properly respond to Him.

Okay, I get your point.

I still have a bit of disagreement...
Yes agree, in a day, pure righteousness, always present in God, shall also be present in all who dwell ON the earth, in His Kingdom.

But NOW, BY Gods Power, and Gods Standard, there are men acceptably righteous.

Granted, We judge harshly, by what WE SEE and observe, but Gods Works, and Acceptance and Judgements are not the same as ours.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[mkgal1]

But NOW, BY Gods Power, and Gods Standard, there are men acceptably righteous.

Granted, We judge harshly, by what WE SEE and observe, but Gods Works, and Acceptance and Judgements are not the same as ours.

I fully agree

 

[mkgal1]

I was speaking of now. Men who desire to KNOW Him, can KNOW Him without SEEING Him.

And some men can only KNOW ABOUT HIM, via hearing / reading ABOUT HIM.

I was speaking of now as well.

I first brought up the typical definition we hear of "being saved" (the whole...."say a prayer and ask for forgiveness and then you're 'in'....but others who don't are 'out') and how I don't think that's good theology. I don't believe there's an expiration period on our chance to respond to Him (nor do I really believe we can simply call ourselves "saved" --as if it's an event....I think it's more appropriate to say "we are BEING saved" .......it's a process, I believe....we get to know Him over time....purging parts of ourselves that are NOT of Him along the way). That was my point. Does that clarify things?

 

[SBC]

I was speaking of now as well.

I first brought up the typical definition we hear of "being saved" (the whole...."say a prayer and ask for forgiveness and then you're 'in'....but others who don't are 'out') and how I don't think that's good theology. I don't believe there's an expiration period on our chance to respond to Him (nor do I really believe we can simply call ourselves "saved"....I think it's more appropriate to say "we are BEING saved" as an event.......it's a process, I believe....we get to know Him over time....purging parts of ourselves that are NOT of Him along the way). That was my point. Does that clarify things?

Inanutshell, how what IS being taught, fails at the gravity of what it fully means?

That is pretty much my perspective.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[mkgal1]

Inanutshell, how what IS being taught, fails at the gravity of what it fully means?

That is pretty much my perspective.

God Bless,
SBC

Well.....yes, but I was trying to be a bit more specific.

 

[DominicBaptiste]

For most of my Christian walk I believed that Jesus died for the elect a.k.a his sheep as said in John 10:7, John 10:11, , John 10:15, and John 10:26. Also in John 17 in Jesus's prayer to the Father he talks about saving the sheep and not the whole world. But there are other verses in the bible that begin to bother me like 1 John 2:2 where it says:

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

and John 3:16-17 where it says

" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

Well if Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why doesn't everyone go to be with Jesus when they die? Why is it only the elect that enter heaven? It makes more sense that Jesus died for all who he foreknew would come to him to salvation doesn't it? Only Jesus's sheep are saved in the long run all others are not. All Christians can agree on this. So, why die for the whole world when the whole world can't be saved? Only those who come to Jesus for salvation can be saved and God knew ahead of time who would and who wouldn't come to Jesus for salvation so it makes the most amount of sense that Jesus died for his sheep doesn't it? After all, why would Jesus say in most of John 10 "I die for my sheep" if he didn't die for his sheep?. So, I don't understand it. If it is the truth that Jesus died for the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why do people still go to hell and why are only Jesus's sheep saved? It doesn't make any sense to me. Not at all. That sounds a lot more unfair to me personally then to say that Jesus died for everyone who he foreknew would come to him for salvation. I mean, that doesn't say that Jesus chose people for hell it says that Jesus chose every single person on the Earth that could possibly be saved.

I mean, predestination is something taught in Ephesians 1:4 and 1 Peter 1:20. So, why does some parts of the Bible seem to teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world? The bible can't contradict itself can it?

It's not my family tradition to make a determination about whether a person is going to Heaven or not. It is our tradition to believe in Jesus and that because of that we go to heaven, but what happens to others is really between them and God. My personal belief is that if you die in less than a state of grace, you will spend some time in Purgatory before your soul can be brought back to a state of Godliness needed to enter the eternal Kingdom of Heaven with the rest of the Celestial Court. As far as Hell, the first Hell is when you are still physically alive on earth and in a state of separation from God. That is what is described as a "living Hell." The second Hell is an eternal place of disgrace where you go if you choose to walk in the opposite direction of God and Jesus, but I really don't think many people actually go there. Most people walk a very bumpy road toward God and end up in Purgatory and eventually in Heaven. Anyway, this is a video about Satan with a nice picture of Hell. These guys were from Northeast Alabama. Your post made me think of it. ;^)

 

[Ron Gurley]

RE: post# 73
Is your family tradition based on RCC doctrine / dogma ?

 

[DominicBaptiste]

RE: post# 73
Is your family tradition based on RCC doctrine / dogma ?

My family are mostly Baptist. We founded that movement as a breakaway from the Anglican Church in colonial times and from breakaways also from the RCC. I have Scottish, English, and French Protestant family history from colonial times. Baptists are a diverse group of people because there is no official doctrine. It's just what ever families have made up since they quit the Church of England or the RCC many years ago. By the way, most all of Western Christianity is based off of the RCC because most people's family history from the 1500s and earlier would have been Catholic. Also, I just like some of the Catholic ideas. I'm sure there are people who have anxiety attacks at the mention of Mary or Purgatory, but that's just what I like, and it really is what I believe. One of my great grandmothers also believed in Purgatory.