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If I do not repent, do not accept vicarious redemption then God will, according to almost every Christian on this thread, punish me for what I think.God will not punish you for the way you think. Don't you think God would show you that you are a sinner first and give you a chance to repent? You have to realize that you are dead in sins before you can become converted. If you genuinely have never felt like a sinner and no need to repent then heaven will be your home. If God has spoken to your heart and you continue to make up excuses then he will indeed punish you. He gives us all a chance.
Who are you to tell God what is ethical?Then, yes. Why put people in such a dismal existence? Annihilationism would be more ethical.
Also, a side question: Do you honestly believe that Muslims would believe that they "rejected good" (I'm actually not seeing any direct connection between accepting salvation and goodness. It is all about following orders and has nothing to do with morality. It is much more a self-serving action than anything else) and be in despair on the basis of "envy" and "jealousy"? Do you think God should have nothing for them for their own faith, their own convictions?
God will not punish you for the way you think. Don't you think God would show you that you are a sinner first and give you a chance to repent? You have to realize that you are dead in sins before you can become converted. If you genuinely have never felt like a sinner and no need to repent then heaven will be your home. If God has spoken to your heart and you continue to make up excuses then he will indeed punish you. He gives us all a chance.
Nonbeleiver314, after having debates with several atheists I learned that they really did not want an answer to their questions, but they ask their questions to draw Christians into a never ending debate that provides the atheists opportunity to show their contempt for Christians and God. Assuming you are genuinely looking for the truth about your question, I will simply ask you a question: "Are you willing risk your eternity on the opinions of others or will you seek the truth from the Bible?"
Yes, He has given you free will to speak to Him that way.Someone who has been given free-will to do so. He cannot expect his creation that he endowed with independent thinking to query anything especially anything regarding him.
Yes, He has given you free will to speak to Him that way.
So stop referring to ethics when they truly have no meaning. We all have different opinions about it and nobody's is any more ethical than any others. People who do not believe in God have zero reference to moral conviction. You all just throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks. It's all random, just like everything in existence.No-one. It is argued for and I am yet to see a good argument for why people deserve to be tortured for eternity for not being a Christian.
Then, yes. Why put people in such a dismal existence? Annihilationism would be more ethical.
Also, a side question: Do you honestly believe that Muslims would believe that they "rejected good" (I'm actually not seeing any direct connection between accepting salvation and goodness. It is all about following orders and has nothing to do with morality. It is much more a self-serving action than anything else) and be in despair on the basis of "envy" and "jealousy"? Do you think God should have nothing for them for their own faith, their own convictions?
Who told you that?There is no free will.
I do not believe said gift exists. Muslims do not believe said gift exists. They believe that another gift exists. Why did God offer this gift only to those who pledge him allegiance? Why did he offer nothing but despair and suffering for those too skeptical or too ignorant to notice it?It's nothing to do with following orders. Really it comes down to accepting a gift or not.
I said that moral arguments are argued for, not just decreed based on authority. I did not claim that ethics has no value or can't be understood or argued for - to the contrary - it can and no argument that has ever been presented has ever provided a sufficient justification for why all Non-Christians deserve to be tortured for eternity.So stop referring to ethics when they truly have no meaning. We all have different opinions about it and nobody's is any more ethical than any others. People who do not believe in God have zero reference to moral conviction. You all just throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks. It's all random, just like everything in existence.
What evil have I repaid people with? Why do I deserve to be tortured just for "not changing" or not changing in the appropriate way?seekingsolace said:There are people who no matter how much goodness you show to them, they will repay with evil. if a person will not change, how can you help them?
Like I said before you have to realize that you are dead in sins, dying and going to hell to be able to repent. It takes god to enlighten us that we are sinners. Christian or no, they can not determine someone else destination by what they think. God doesn't judge anyone by what they think. He will however let you live the way you want to live.. During your life he will indeed visit you and show you what kind of condition you are truly in, then it becomes your choice to seek knock and ask for forgivness. repentance..... If he never visits you and you die the way you are thinking then heaven will be your home...If he does visit you and you continue to reject his call, hell will be your home...If I do not repent, do not accept vicarious redemption then God will, according to almost every Christian on this thread, punish me for what I think.
And in the end, morality is all subjective. The justification for people who reject Christ not entering the kingdom of heaven is because the wages of sin is death, eternal death, regardless of what you believe. God has made a way for you not to suffer this death and you don't want it. That is your choice. That's it. It's that simple. You don't believe this. That's fine. I do, as do many others. Co-exist.I said that moral arguments are argued for, not just decreed based on authority. I did not claim that ethics has no value or can't be understood or argued for - to the contrary - it can and no argument that has ever been presented has ever provided a sufficient justification for why all Non-Christians deserve to be tortured for eternity.
I do not believe said gift exists. Muslims do not believe said gift exists. They believe that another gift exists. Why did God offer this gift only to those who pledge him allegiance? Why did he offer nothing but despair and suffering for those too skeptical or too ignorant to notice it?
So if I die as a Non-Christian what will he judge me on exactly?Like I said before you have to realize that you are dead in sins, dying and going to hell to be able to repent. It takes god to enlighten us that we are sinners. Christian or no, they can not determine someone else destination by what they think. God doesn't judge anyone by what they think. He will however let you live the way you want to live.. During your life he will indeed visit you and show you what kind of condition you are truly in, then it becomes your choice to seek knock and ask for forgivness. repentance..... If he never visits you and you die the way you are thinking then heaven will be your home...If he does visit you and you continue to reject his call, hell will be your home...
I don't believe in a God(s). There is no choice to me. This is all hypothetical and speculative to me. The objection I have here is that you are endorsing torture and thought-crime all the while calling yourself a citizen of a nation that finds them abhorrent.And in the end, morality is all subjective. The justification for people who reject Christ not entering the kingdom of heaven is because the wages of sin is death, eternal death, regardless of what you believe. God has made a way for you not to suffer this death and you don't want it. That is your choice. That's it. It's that simple. You don't believe this. That's fine. I do, as do many others. Co-exist.
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