If I'm an Atheist and I am not a bad person, will I go to hell?

GillDouglas said:

So one day you woke up and just stop believing in what you had learned?

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Being a Christian for 40 years, no, you don't just wake up one morning and not believe (speaking for myself). It was a process, of accumulating new knowledge, that caused me to evaluate my beliefs and over a period of time, recognize that I was wrong.

Have you ever changed your mind about something, after you acquired new knowledge, that changed your position?

bhsmte said:

Then what is it based on?

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That is a difficult question to answer, and you know that. There is no way for us to determine His reasons for choosing one over another. Why does my kid put mayonnaise on her french fries (yuck!)? Because she wants to.

GillDouglas said:

You would be mistaken. Those who believe like I do, should not and do not have a place to judge others. Our only responsibility is to present the idea of God, not convince you or convict you. It's God's responsibility to change your heart.

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I can appreciate that, but my experience with Christians in real life and many on this board, includes a lot of judgment.

When a poster states you are already in hell and am not a Christian because I reject God and want to sin, that is not only judgment, but it displays a certain arrogance in claiming to know how others think.

bhsmte said:

Being a Christian for 40 years, no, you don't just wake up one morning and not believe (speaking for myself). It was a process, of accumulating new knowledge, that caused me to evaluate my beliefs and over a period of time, recognize that I was wrong.

Have you ever changed your mind about something, after you acquired new knowledge, that changed your position?

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Archaeopteryx said:

Yes, I suppose the process leading up to it is somewhat systematic, insofar as it consists of a pattern of questions. But don't confuse the process with the outcome. Atheism is not a process.

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Of course I've changed my mind about things. I was once an unbeliever, who did not believe in God though I knew of Him. The difference between us though is that my coming to truly know Him was not my doing. I didn't seek Him out, He found me and He changed my mind.

Both the Old and New Testaments teach that none of us are good:

Psa 53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Psa 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

This is one of the cornerstones of the Christian faith - that we are saved by grace and not because we are any "good":

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

How do we then get "saved" as we seem to have no control over it ? That is actually right. We realise our "lostness" and repent of sins and turn to God as the only hope. The following will in some way reflect this:

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Hope this helps a bit.

nonbeliever314 said:

It's not necessarily a rant, it's more of a short essay on my thoughts about all this. I'd just like a general response to the points I brought up. For the sake of discussion. Please.

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nonbeliever314 said:

I deny Jesus as a savior of mankind, but I do think historically speaking, he was a real person. I find it extremely unlikely there is a God of any kind, even more unlikely a god that actually "loves" his creation and for some reason cares so much if people love him back. And to make it clear too, I don't believe in the devil either. I'm an honest and caring person, I've never done an "evil" thing my entire life. With that all said, would I go to hell?

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Well, let's look at your "essay" then.

1/ "I deny Jesus as a savior of mankind, but I do think historically speaking, he was a real person."

You have denied Christ, He will deny you. Therefore, you will not be saved from hell.

2/ "I find it extremely unlikely there is a God of any kind, even more unlikely a god that actually "loves" his creation and for some reason cares so much if people love him back."

Point number two is a statement of your belief. Sorry to see you feel this way but, hey, your a non believer so I'm not surprised. I have no comment or discussion on this. Everyone is entitled to their belief.

3/ "And to make it clear too, I don't believe in the devil either."

See my response to point two.....Your choice. Nothing to comment on. I'm not going to argue with your right to believe what you believe.

4/ I'm an honest and caring person, I've never done an "evil" thing my entire life. With that all said, would I go to hell?

Short answer..... Yes, you will go to hell. Why? Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

It matters little, in fact it is absolutely nothing, in God's eyes, that YOU feel you have done no "evil" thing. You never pushed a little kid down when you were little, told a lie (ahem think hard on that one), took change from a teller when she gave you too much? Gave someone the finger, looked at someone elses car or boat or house or girlfriend or shoes or coat or body or computer and thought, hey I want that?

You see, man's idea of "evil" and God's idea of "evil" are a bit different. If you have done one thing, one little thing that is against the ten commandants, you are guilty of all of them. Man imposes penalties on the earthly crimes and assesses whether a person gets probation, a fine, life or death due to the magnitude of the crime in MAN's eyes.

For God, it's different. You took two cookies when your mom said you could have one. You just disobeyed your parent. Children OBEY YOUR PARENTS. Well one commandment down. Now, in God's eyes you are a sinner and unclean, impure, unrighteous.

Translation.... GAME OVER.

I hope this is not too blunt for you "nonbeliever314" However, you have been given many answers to your question, great answers and discussions that followed were equally enjoyable. You would not accept them and pushed for a breakdown of your essay. So, in all kindness, there it is.

You don't believe there is a devil so why believe there is a hell?

bhsmte said:

I can appreciate that, but my experience with Christians in real life and many on this board, includes a lot of judgment.

When a poster states you are already in hell and am not a Christian because I reject God and want to sin, that is not only judgment, but it displays a certain arrogance in claiming to know how others think.

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I think people let their emotions get the better of them, especially when these topics get heated. I agree, there are many judgmental people, not only professing Christians; that's an individual problem. Remember a lot of these people do care, take it as a compliment that they wish for you to receive good.

nonbeliever314 said:

I deny Jesus as a savior of mankind, but I do think historically speaking, he was a real person. I find it extremely unlikely there is a God of any kind, even more unlikely a god that actually "loves" his creation and for some reason cares so much if people love him back. And to make it clear too, I don't believe in the devil either. I'm an honest and caring person, I've never done an "evil" thing my entire life. With that all said, would I go to hell?

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Q: I'm an honest and caring person, I've never done an "evil" thing my entire life. With that all said, would I go to hell?
A: Yes.

If you were completely innocent, having never done anything bad, always acknowledging God, always obedient to him and what he requires of you then you would not yet deserve heaven because it is a gift that no creature can earn. The truth is that everything you are and everything you have is given to you by God so you can't earn anything from God as if he owed it to you. Nevertheless God is willing to give heaven to everybody who is in union with Christ Jesus the Lord by having faith in him.

RSLancastr said:

nonbeliever314:

I haven't read this whole thread (not by a LONG shot), and I myself am Agnostic, but here is my understanding of the Christian take on your question:

Whether a person ends up in Heaven or in Hell after they die is NOT based on whether or not they had been a "good" or "evil" person in life (despite what novels and films have told us for centuries or more). No, it is simply based on whether or not the person "accepted Jesus Christ as his or her Personal Savior" before the person died.

So, assuming this is correct, neither you nor I is currently bound for Heaven when we die, but that can change if and when we "accept Jesus Christ as our Personal Savior" before we die.

The reasoning is this:

1. NOBODY (other than Jesus) has lived a life without sin.

2. Thus, NOBODY - no matter how "good" they have been in their life, deserves to be in Heaven, in the presence of God, where sin cannot exist.

3. Jesus - in part, due to His having lived a sinless life - was able to die on the cross, thus taking the blame for all the sins of mankind (Substitionary atonement).

4. But a person's sins are only taken away - the slate wiped clean, if you will - if they choose to receive that gift, by accepting Jesus as their own personal Savior, at which point all of their sins are absolved and are placed upon Jesus. Their sins no longer being in them, they are then able to be in the presence of God, and so, will be accepted into Heaven when they die.

...At least, that is my understanding of how Christians believe on the matter, gleaned mostly through my having attended a Baptist church regularly with my wife for the past four years or so.

-RSL

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Yes but I don't repent and live in wilfull sin I don't go to heaven. Faith without works is dead.

bhsmte said:

I can appreciate that, but my experience with Christians in real life and many on this board, includes a lot of judgment.

When a poster states you are already in hell and am not a Christian because I reject God and want to sin, that is not only judgment, but it displays a certain arrogance in claiming to know how others think.

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I can't argue with you there. The hardest people to get along with are other Christians. People tend to misunderstand this notion about Christians somehow becoming immediately 'Holy' and 'Righteous' upon conversion. As you well know this is simply not the case. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that there are some nicer atheists compared to these judgmental Christians. They are a poor example of a follower of Jesus.

Make no mistake, I don't claim to be any better. While I work hard to live my life for Christ and follow in His footsteps, I still mess up, a lot.

I only read the first page, but does anyone else feel that op's question would be better served with a google search (or perhaps by reading the bible/Quran/Torah/insert text) instead? He already stated his lack of belief in any god or hell. If he was looking for specific info from a certain religion (no matter what that may be), wouldn't the original source be best? If he is looking for evidence through a certain religion, again, original source? And the comment about having never done evil is debatable no matter who you talk to.

Thread feels like troll bait.

seekingsolace said:

I think people let their emotions get the better of them, especially when these topics get heated. I agree, there are many judgmental people, not only professing Christians; that's an individual problem. Remember a lot of these people do care, take it as a compliment that they wish for you to receive good.

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...and when someone relentlessly presses them for some judgment, it doesn't make much sense to then complain about being given an opinion as was requested.

seekingsolace said:

I think people let their emotions get the better of them, especially when these topics get heated. I agree, there are many judgmental people, not only professing Christians; that's an individual problem. Remember a lot of these people do care, take it as a compliment that they wish for you to receive good.

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It isn't every Christian where judging others is second nature, but there are good many of them.

Never fear, it is something that I fully understand the personal motivation behind it, for those that use the tactic. Doesn't mean I won't point it out though, because I will.

You know, the whole; take the log out of your own eye thing, seems to be lost on a lot of Christians.

BayouAngel said:

I only read the first page, but does anyone else feel that op's question would be better served with a google search (or perhaps by reading the bible/Quran/Torah/insert text) instead? He already stated his lack of belief in any god or hell. If he was looking for specific info from a certain religion (no matter what that may be), wouldn't the original source be best? If he is looking for evidence through a certain religion, again, original source? And the comment about having never done evil is debatable no matter who you talk to.

Thread feels like troll bait.

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The same could be said for a lot of issues raised on this board.

bhsmte said:

It isn't every Christian where judging others is second nature, but there are good many of them.

Never fear, it is something that I fully understand the personal motivation behind it, for those that use the tactic. Doesn't mean I won't point it out though, because I will.

You know, the whole; take the log out of your own eye thing, seems to be lost on a lot of Christians.

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Indeed, you also need to understand that believers will be very defensive when the object of faith is mocked openly.

bhsmte said:

The same could be said for a lot of issues raised on this board.

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Fair enough. Just seems like beating a dead horse, especially if Christianity is the faith op is most concerned with as the bible is very clear on the subject.

seekingsolace said:

Indeed, you also need to understand that believers will be very defensive when the object of faith is mocked openly.

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Yes, most will get defensive when their position is mocked, if that is actually occurring.

In my observations though, some Christians seem to be proactive with the judgment of others, with no mocking necessary.

seatpost12 said:

If there is life after this life, what form will it take because we all know that wherever it is, the human body is not going since it is dead. That can only mean the next life is spiritual.

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Why can this "only mean" that? Why couldn't the next life be...intellectual? or electrical, or chemical... (the list goes on and on)?

For that matter, we haven't even established that there IS "life after this life", so speculating on its nature seems rather pointless until THAT much can be established.

I see no mocking here.