If I told you that Jesus taught me how to open the Seven Seals, would you ask me to tell you?

[Steven Heiss]

Jesus is the Lamb of God and will open the seals at the appointed time. I don't think there are shortcuts.

What makes you think that this can not be that appointed time?

 

[Steve Petersen]

What are you claiming is the rider on the white horse's name?

Bruce.

 

[Steven Heiss]

Until you make specific connections with specific text in the bible, I am not going to waste any more of my time, looking at your presentation. You put together a start to finish timeline of the end times events, that makes some sort of discernible sense.

Then without further delay, I will show you the seals, just as they were shown to me.
Genesis (NIV)
10 The scepter will not depart from Judah,
until he to whom it belongs shall come
and the obedience of the nations shall be his.

On the surface, this looks like a broken prophecy (thus, no prophecy at all) to almost everyone who already knows that Israel declared independence from Judah and had their own king and kingdom.

This is what God calls a "stumbling block."

The answer to this problem begins in the very next verse.

11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch;
he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes.

There are 5 Seals on this verse alone.

Verse 14 identifies the donkey, and verse 22 identifies the vine.

14 Issachar is a raw-boned donkey...

22 Joseph is a fruitful vine...

These are similes, where you read this and think that. They are not like a donkey and a vine, they are a donkey and a vine, from here forward, all the way through Revelation.

The footnote on verse 22 says that the fruitful vine could also be rendered as a wild colt. This is a deliberate double-entendre, and both renderings apply. It confirms that the singular blessing of Joseph applies to both portions of Joseph (they received their blessings in private in chapter 48). The third Seal.

Verse 22 also includes the word branch, confirming that it is the branch of the vine in verse 11. And of the two portions, Ephraim received the greater portion of the blessings of prosperity and expansion (The Covenant and the Covenant Name, Israel). The fourth Seal.

So, with the proper identities in place, the first phrase of verse 11 should now read:

He (Judah) will tether Issachar to Joseph, Manasseh to Ephraim

The related symbols in the remainder of the verse form the fifth Seal.

11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch;
he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes.

What are wine and grapes, based on what we know so far?

Wine comes from grapes, which come from the vine, so the grapes are the men of Joseph, and the wine becomes the blood of the men of Joseph. In other words, Judah will rule over them as a blood-thirsty tyrant.

The sixth Seal is another double-entendre.

14 Issachar is a raw-boned donkey lying down among the sheep pens.

The "sheep pens" have a footnote saying this could also be rendered as Or the campfires, or the saddlebags. Campfires are councils and saddlebags are possessions, so if these two were intended, we have separate territories under separate leadership. This is what it should look like on a map. The structure of the verse implies that these are the two territories he has already been tied to, but if you stop and think about it, that would mean that both double-entendres refer to the exact same thing (Mannaseh and Ephraim) and point to each other as confirmation, like bookends.

So, what does Issachar do, lying between Ephraim and Manasseh? Judah, the king, put him there for a purpose: to rule.

Remember, we are trying to find out how Judah rules over Israel AFTER they declare independence from Judah. He rules by pulling and tying the reins of the donkey and the colt. Issachar carries the burden, while Judah pulls the strings from behind the scene.

The Seventh Seal:

17 Dan will be a snake by the roadside, a viper along the path,
that bites the horse’s heels so that its rider tumbles backward.

His objective is to cause the rider to tumble. So, who is the rider.
We must take a step back and think conceptually again. The rider can only be the only one referred to as the owner of mounts. Judah owns both a donkey and a colt, so He is the rider.

Snake and viper are synonyms for serpent, dragon, Satan. This is the spirit of the accuser established among Israel as one of the tribes. He persecutes Judah. He is the tribe of the anti-Christ.

So, what actually happened according to the narrative on the surface?

Judah betrayed Samson, the archetype of the anti-Christ, and Dan found an excuse to renounce Judah and his own inheritance. He was to have been the hedge between the vineyard and the garden that prevents either from encroaching upon the other. (Isaiah 5)

With no arbitrator to keep things in check, the Tribe of Ephraim’s blessing of prosperity brought with it political persuasion rivaling that of the king. The other tribes are given a choice between the king & priests, who are due taxes and tithes; or the tribe of Ephraim, whose prosperity trickled down unto all whom associated with them. The Israelites voted with their wallets, so to speak. Absent the Wisdom of Solomon, the nation of Israel (still in its infancy) is cut in two. On the surface, it appears that Jacob was wrong, but…

When Jeroboam’s heir begins to rule the newly-formed (Northern) kingdom of Israel, Baasha marches down from the territory of Issachar (immediately north of Manasseh) to the city of Shechem, in the territory of Ephraim (immediately south of Manasseh). There, he kills Nadab and all of Jeroboam’s blood relatives, then declares himself king, then retreats to, and rules from, the city of Tirzah, in the border country of Manasseh, next to Ephraim. (1 Kings 15 : 27-34)

After several more kings from Issachar rule Israel from Tirzah, Omri buys a hill across the border in Ephraim, and builds the permanent capitol where no city had been: Samaria. (1Kings 16: 16- 25). Then more kings from Issachar ruled from there, after him.

On the surface, it appears as though Judah's blessing to rule over Israel until Christ's return (Genesis 49:10) was broken early on when Israel declared independence from Judah, but we find that he is actually prophesied to rule over Israel through a surrogate or proxy. That is only possible if they cease to recognize Judah as their king.

As you can see, no smoke and mirrors, no blind faith, just faith of a child, wisdom of an adult, guidance of the Holy Spirit, and standard rules of grammar, logic, and reasoning. The tutorial even has an answer sheet to check your work as you go (the rest of the scriptures).

 

[chevyontheriver]

What makes you think that this can not be that appointed time?

Maybe it is. But I am expecting the Lamb to open them, not someone I do not know. So I wait

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Or would you think I was crazy?

I'd suppose you crazy.

 

[Steven Heiss]

I'm in. Let's do this thing. Not all at once though, let's just open the first one and see how it goes. The way you are displaying things with cycles it looks like they have already been out and about though.

It won't make any sense if you only open one, or two. They are woven into each other and you have to open most of them before you know what you are looking at, and all of them to get the whole picture. I'll try to be brief, and stop at four. That is enough to see that something important is happening.

First, the back-story, so that we are all on the same page. Some will be familiar, but you may have missed some of the details:

The blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were handed down through one son only, for the first two generations. Jacob had planned all along to bestow the Blessings of the Covenant upon Joseph, the firstborn son of his first and only true-loved wife, Rachel. He prepared everyone for this eventuality by giving Joseph two portions of whatever his brothers received.

Joseph’s older half-brothers sold him into slavery out of their jealousy, and his understanding of the symbolic nature of dreams is a significant component in what elevates him to prominence in the eyes of the Pharaoh. His wisdom, and confidence earned him the king's trust, and gained him the keys to the kingdom, as Joseph was tasked with carrying out his own advice: Storing up the surplus grain for the seven-year famine that he interpreted to come in seven years time.

Those same half-brothers were sent by their father to Egypt to buy grain during the famine that came. Joseph recognized them, but they had no clue who he was. As the leader of all Egypt, second only to the Pharoah, Joseph accused his half-brothers of being spies and ransomed his younger brother by the same mother to force his half-brothers to bring their father to him to prove their story.

Jacob came to Egypt fearing he had lost both of Rachel’s only sons, then discovered upon his arrival that they were not only both alive and well, but also, that Joseph had two sons of his own (had become two portions): Ephraim and Manasseh. They were born to the daughter of the Pharoah, introducing royal blood into the family and what would eventually develop into a dominant dynamic.

When Jacob [a.k.a. Israel (Gen 32:28)] adopts his newfound grandsons, he elevates them to equal stature with their uncles as tribal patriarchs. Jacob tells Joseph that any children born to him after them, will be reckoned (recognized or recorded) under the names of their brothers, and this is the Charter for the 13 Tribes of Israel:

5 “Now then, your two sons born to you in Egypt before I came to you here will be reckoned as mine; Ephraim and Manasseh will be mine, just as Reuben and Simeon are mine. 6 Any children born to you after them will be yours; in the territory they inherit they will be reckoned under the names of their brothers.
(NIV Gen. 48:5-6).

The “Tribe of Joseph” listed in Revelation is not another tribe along side of the tribes Ephraim and Manasseh. The rest of his children live among Ephraim and Manasseh. Jacob gives these boys his Covenant Name (Israel).

It is Ephraim who receives the greater portion of the blessings of God’s covenant with Abraham, even though Manasseh was the elder. Later on in the Scriptures we will find that this name, Ephraim, is given as interchangeable with that of Israel, ”because I am Israel’s father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son.” (NIV Jeremiah 31: 9)


Jacob blesses his natural sons (Gen. Ch.49). He divides up the birthright and the blessings among his heirs, and this is the cast of characters, and the symbols that will represent them throughout the Scriptures. This is also the script they will follow from that day forward, throughout history, as they repeatedly act out the tragedy of the dysfunctional family of Israel.

Judah is the central figure in the hidden intrigue, so let’s begin there. Gen. 49:9 tells us Judah is the lion, and verse 10 says that he is the rightful king over God’s chosen people Israel. (The birthright of leadership that belongs to the firstborn has been forfeit by his elder brothers for their transgressions).

For those who know that Israel declared independence, this presents a problem. How does Judah rule over Israel after Israel declares independence?

The answer begins in the very next verse.

11 “He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch...” (NIV)

As things that Jacob promised will happen in days to come, the blessings are presented as prophecy, but he speaks in riddles. The four symbols represent four identities. Who are the donkey, the vine, the colt, and the choicest branch?

Verse 14 names Issachar as the donkey, and verse 22 reveals that Joseph is the vine. Verse 22 also includes the word branch, confirming for us that choicest branch is indeed part of the vine. When we insert these identities given for the symbols back into verse 11, we find that: Judah will tether Issachar to Joseph, his colt to the choicest (part of Joseph). Ephraim received the greater blessing, so he is the choicest branch.

The fruitful vine can also be translated as a wild colt (see footnote in NIV). This is a deliberate double-entendre, confirming that the singular blessing of Joseph, the Vine, applies to both portions of Joseph: Ephraim and Manasseh, the choicest branch and the colt. With all of the proper identities in place, verse 11 should now read:

Judah will tether Issachar to Joseph, Manasseh to Ephraim...

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Or would you think I was crazy?

I'd say you might be a fan of Cheech and Chong.

 

[Tutorman]

Or would you think I was crazy?

Yes, yes you are.

 

[Douggg]

The “Tribe of Joseph” listed in Revelation is not another tribe along side of the tribes Ephraim and Manasseh. The rest of his children live among Ephraim and Manasseh.

The tribes listed are:
Juda Revelation 7:5 12,000
Reuben Revelation 7:5 "
Gad Revelation 7:5 "
Aser Revelation 7:6 "
Nepthalim Revelation 7:6 "
Manasses Revelation 7:6 "
Simeon Revelation 7:7 "
Levi Revelation 7:7 "
Issachar Revelation 7:7 "
Zabulon Revelation 7:8 "
Joseph Revelation 7:8 "
Benjamin Revelation 7:8 "

12 tribes listed totaling 144,000


Here are the direct sons of Jacob (listed in order, as Jacob blessed(?) them in Genesis 49)
Reuben mother Leah
Simeon mother Leah
Levi mother Leah
Judah mother Leah
Zebulun mother Leah
Issachar mother Leah
Dan mother Bihah
Gad mother Zilpah
Asher mother Zilpah
Naphtali mother Bilhah
Joseph mother Rachel
Benjamin mother Rachel

Dan and Ephraim (Jacob's indirect son - Joseph's son) are not included in the Revelation 7 list.

 

[keras]

Then without further delay, I will show you the seals, just as they were shown to me.

Steve, I read your interpretation of the Blessings given to the Tribes, esp Ephraim and Manasseh and what you say is good; facts that many prefer to ignore.
However, I disagree that they have anything to do with the Seals. You ignore that the first five Seals are open now, the Sixth is next and the Seventh Seal is a time gap.

The reality is; we will never fully understand these things until they come to pass. Isaiah 29:23-24, Isaiah 32:3-4

 

[Gottservant]

There is something amiss here, you are aligning "a scroll" with "the scroll".

There is One who knew how to open "a scroll" that was "a scroll", but "the scroll" as you point out has seven seals.

To open "the scroll" you need permission from the One with "a scroll" and that cannot happen: before the One is in Heaven, once again.

 

[Petros2015]

You ignore that the first five Seals are open now, the Sixth is next and the Seventh Seal is a time gap.

Hmm? Did the Apocalypse start and I didn't get the memo? The 4th seal is

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

I feel like that would be pretty hard to miss if it was open.

 

[brian57]

Or would you think I was crazy?

I would think that your crazy. Because Jesus has already opened the seals in the olivet discourse.

 

[Petros2015]

Opening the seals triggers events happening. If the events haven't happened, the seals haven't been opened. Only Christ is supposed to open these seals, because only he is worthy.

If someone else thinks they can start the Apocalypse ahead of time though, be my guest.

 

[brian57]

.

 

[Petros2015]

I feel like that would be pretty hard to miss if it was open.

Unless that was WWII... which *was* pretty big

 

[Steven Heiss]

Hmm? Did the Apocalypse start and I didn't get the memo? The 4th seal is

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

I feel like that would be pretty hard to miss if it was open.

One would think so, but people still missed it. History calls what the fourth represents the Holocaust. The third was the Great Depression, etc.

 

[Steven Heiss]

Unless that was WWII... which *was* pretty big

<bells, whistles, fanfare> We have a winner.

 

[Steven Heiss]

Opening the seals triggers events happening. If the events haven't happened, the seals haven't been opened. Only Christ is supposed to open these seals, because only he is worthy.

If someone else thinks they can start the Apocalypse ahead of time though, be my guest.

Apocalypse Now....

An apocalypse (Ancient Greek: ἀποκάλυψις apokálypsis, from ἀπό and καλύπτω meaning "uncovering"), translated literally from Greek, is a disclosure of knowledge, i.e., a lifting of the veil or revelation. In religious contexts it is usually a disclosure of something hidden, “a vision of heavenly secrets that can make sense of earthly realities".
Bart D. Ehrman, "How Jesus Became God", pg. 59, ISBN 978-0-06-177818-6

This is it, folks. The real deal. Pray and ask the Holy Spririt if this is so.

 

[Steven Heiss]

The tribes listed are:
Juda Revelation 7:5 12,000
Reuben Revelation 7:5 "
Gad Revelation 7:5 "
Aser Revelation 7:6 "
Nepthalim Revelation 7:6 "
Manasses Revelation 7:6 "
Simeon Revelation 7:7 "
Levi Revelation 7:7 "
Issachar Revelation 7:7 "
Zabulon Revelation 7:8 "
Joseph Revelation 7:8 "
Benjamin Revelation 7:8 "

12 tribes listed totaling 144,000


Here are the direct sons of Jacob (listed in order, as Jacob blessed(?) them in Genesis 49)
Reuben mother Leah
Simeon mother Leah
Levi mother Leah
Judah mother Leah
Zebulun mother Leah
Issachar mother Leah
Dan mother Bihah
Gad mother Zilpah
Asher mother Zilpah
Naphtali mother Bilhah
Joseph mother Rachel
Benjamin mother Rachel

Dan and Ephraim (Jacob's indirect son - Joseph's son) are not included in the Revelation 7 list.

There is no tribe of Joseph. That tribe was headed by Ephraim.
Read the blessings in chapter 48 again.

Dan does not receive an inheritance, because he refused to claim his allotment. There are no saints from the tribe of the anti-Christ.