If i keep sinning am i not saved ?

[Guojing]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

Romans 5 will reassure you

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
=====

In the first place, it was not your sin that separated you from God. It was the sin nature you inherited from Adam. You now sin because you are a sinner.

Likewise, it was not your own acts of righteousness that reconciled you to God. It was Jesus's obedience to the Father, that granted you imputed righteousness.

Of course, that does not mean you should then go ahead and sin all you like. But its important to understand exactly why God sees you as righteous now. The Law was not given to the righteous man.

 

[Dansiph]

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I originally liked your post but I noticed you said "it was not your sin that separated you from God". What do you mean by that? I quoted the verse you started with which states "for that all have sinned".

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Hello BibleBeliever1611, how does God "punish sinners" on this earth and how do we know that He is doing so?

Well, there are all kinds of ways how God could punish you. He could cause you to lose your job, he could cause you to get a disease, he could cause you to have all kinds of problems, etc. The Bible teaches that once we are saved we have become children of God. Just like a loving parent punishes their children, God also punishes his children.

where does the Bible tell us that He does this?

Hebrews 12:6-7:
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

Proverbs 29:1:
"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy."

Proverbs 3:11-12:
"My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth."

you said that we can live however we want to as Christians (I'm assuming you mean that a Christian can continue living in a lifestyle of unrepentant sin?). Doesn't the Bible tell us otherwise

I said that we can still go to heaven. You will not lose salvation by living a sinful life, but of course God doesn't want Christians to live that way. If a child constantly disobeys his parents, are the parents still going to love that child? Of course. But a child like that is going to be disciplined and punished by his parents. So in the same way, if a Christian doesn't obey God's commandments, they will still remain God's child, but God is going to discipline them on this earth.

Here's a good sermon to listen to.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

I'd tell you that if it legitimately worries you, then you are probably saved. Salvation can be a weird state for humans to comprehend, especially Westerners. Most our lives we are told to earn what we get and if it's free it's not worth having. So when Jesus comes along and says hey this is completely free, we usually reply ok I'll pay you this much for it then act like we have to earn it. This in turn leads us to critique the nonsense out of everything we do, sin included. Jesus said if you believe you are saved, that is it. Yes, Christians should fight against the powers of the flesh, but As John wrote, if we sin we have an advocate with the Father and all we need do is confess. I'll finish with the story Jesus told Peter, Lord how many times should I forgive my brother, 7? No, 70 times 7. Jesus wasn't saying our forgiveness ends at 490 times, only that we should be willing forgive unconditionally. And if he expects that of us, believe that he is the same. So don't beat yourself up over sin, repent of it, ask Him for strength to overcome and next time the temptation comes around, pray like your life depends on it!

 

[tdidymas]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

Eph. 2:8-10 "By grace are you saved through faith, and that (grace, saved, faith) not of yourself, it is the gift of God; not of works (human effort), that no one can boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, that we should walk therein."

So then, we are saved from God's wrath through faith alone, by grace alone, by Christ alone. The good works we do are proof of redemption, not the cause. The idea is that we do what God commands (love our neighbor) while we are trusting God's Spirit to help us do it. This is the Christian way.

Hope this helps.
TD

 

[Guojing]

I originally liked your post but I noticed you said "it was not your sin that separated you from God". What do you mean by that? I quoted the verse you started with which states "for that all have sinned".

As Paul explained in vs13, sin was not imputed when there is no law. None of Adam's descendants could have eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil since mankind was banished from the garden.

So sin was never imputed to them, yet all of them die. The only logical explanation was they all have sinned "in Adam". Adam's disobedience was imputed to all of them. In that sense, Adam's sin was a "free gift" to all of us when we were born.

Only when you understand this, then you would understand how we were all imputed with the righteousness of Christ obedience, as the final Adam, once we received that likewise free gift.

 

[bmjackson]

Dear brother,

You are at a critical point in your walk with God. Which way will you go? Will you listen to others who took one way, after listening to others, or will you heed the Holy Spirit, with emphasis on the Holy, and allow Him to lead you?

Why would He give you a longing for something if it is not possible? And especially when you find it is scripture that we are to be holy as He is holy?

The broad way is very tempting and seems right.

 

[Dansiph]

As Paul explained in vs13, sin was not imputed when there is no law. None of Adam's descendants could have eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil since mankind was banished from the garden.

So sin was never imputed to them, yet all of them die. The only logical explanation was they all have sinned "in Adam". Adam's disobedience was imputed to all of them. In that sense, Adam's sin was a "free gift" to all of us when we were born.

Only when you understand this, then you would understand how we were all imputed with the righteousness of Christ obedience, as the final Adam, once we received that likewise free gift.

There's some inconsistency there. Paul also said

Romans 7:9 KJV
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

 

[dqhall]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

James wrote faith without works is dead.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. (WEB)

The law stoned people for working on the Sabbath. They wanted to make Jesus stop healing on Sabbath in a land that lacked good doctors. Paul figured out people are saved by faith in Christ, not that the law is perfect, nor did he recommend going against any goodness that might be found in the law. In Acts 15 there is a recommendation by the apostles to abstain from sexual immorality, meat sacrificed to idols, blood and the meat of strangled animals. I reckon premarital sex, porn, adultery, prostitution and homosexuality are all forms of sexual immorality to be avoided. The Romans already had laws against murder, theft and slander. The apostles did not need to repeat these.

You may need to pray for divine guidance as God knows how many hairs are on your head and when a bird falls from the sky. He can remind people of things they forgot. Love God.

 

[GraceBro]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

Nobody sins by accident. All sin is committed willfully. You will never stop sinning completely until you die. But, what you need to do is shift your focus off of yourself and your flesh and on to Jesus Christ. Yes, you are still saved. Nothing, including your sins, can separate you from God's love (Romans 8:35-39). God is no longer counting your sins against you because of the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19; Romans 4:8; 1 John 2:2; Hebrews 10:17-18; Romans 5:13, to name a few). What I would suggest you do is ask God, "Why am I not trusting you?" or "What is it that I believe sin is providing me that I do not believe I am receiving from you?" In addition, I would ask you, "What is your understanding of the Gospel?" Chances are you do not fully understand what it is and who you are through your faith in Jesus Christ. There is nothing wrong with God, but as with all of us, there is something wrong with our understanding of Him when we are struggling. Ask Him to teach you His truths all over again and allow Him to smooth out your rough edges. In time, you will see sin diminish in your life and the joy of your salvation will return. Grace and Peace to you.

 

[Guojing]

There's some inconsistency there. Paul also said

Romans 7:9 KJV
(9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The Law had been given since Mount Sinai. That is what Paul was referring to in Romans 5:14, from the time of Adam to the time of Moses.

So there is no inconsistency. From Adam right up to Moses, the only Law God gave was regarding the eating of the tree. Paul was born after the Law was given thru Moses.

In Romans 5

14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

One interesting thought experiment you might want to think about is, "Why didn't Satan tempt Eve to murder her husband?"

Why was it that the only temptation that could do the trick for Satan was to tempt Eve to break that specific law that was given to them?

If say Satan did tempt Eve to murder Adam, and Eve went ahead with that, would both of them still have sinned, in the eyes of God?

 

[DamianWarS]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

sin exists in the slightest hesitation, I don't think practically speaking anyone can be sinless except Christ.

 

[Phil W]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

Please allow these verses to help you realize the true answer to your question...
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)

Rebirth from God's seed instead of from Adam's seed produces love for our neighbors.
Love cannot produce sin.

 

[LER_Berean]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

Hey God is good777, I had this same struggle for years. There are a lot of verses in the Scripture that give a strong foundation for the belief of salvation by faith alone, and there are at the same time a lot of verses that makes us to question the previous ones because they clearly state that works are strongly related to salvation too! How to understand this apparent contradiction in the Word???

Everything settled in the right place and in harmony when I learned that there are two main subjects in the Scripture: Eternal life and the kingdom of heaven. They are not the same thing. All confusion is because almost every single believer thinks that they are the same thing and they are not. If you read all verses about the kingdom of heaven (or kingdom of God) knowing that if refers to the millennial kingdom of Jesus over the earth (that will happen before the eternal state, before the new heaven and new earth are created), everything will fit perfectly in place.

The criteria to be saved for eternal life is faith alone in Christ alone.

The criteria to enter in the millennial kingdom is through effort (works that come from the faith in what God has commanded).

Don’t you know that all believers will be judged based on what they have done? Good or bad? Rewards and punishments?

The participation in the millennial kingdom is a reward to the believers accounted worthy who will partake in the first resurrection. And to be left out is a punishment for the unwatchful believer.

See the great example that the Scripture shows to us through the Exodus generation of Israelites who came out of Egypt. They were redeemed people! Read Ex 14:31 and Ex 15:13. Read also how many times the Spirit of God registered to us in the first 3 verses of 1 Cor 10:1-11 the word “all”. All them were saved (eternal life), but only two entered in the Promised Land: Joshua and Caleb (plus the people under 20 years who did not have responsibility over the decision taken by the congregation). What was the error of the ones who died in the wilderness? Unfaithfulness! They did not do what God commanded them to do! Yes, there were giants in the land, but they had the promise that they would take over the land even without fight! God said he would send His terror in front of them, God would send wasps to make the enemies run away. But they did not believed, they walked by sight not by faith in what God said He would do...

Are we not the same?

The believer saved by faith who will be found not watching, I mean, not working through the Holy Spirit in their own sanctification when Jesus come back, will be left out of the millennial kingdom, as the Exodus generation was left out of the Promised Land. Although saved, the left out will have to wait 1,000 years to join Jesus and the saints, losing the reward of reigning with Christ.

I hope that this knowledge, which I suggest you seek confirmation in the Scripture, help you as it has helped me in all apparent inconsistencies throughout the Word.

 

[St_Worm2]

Didn't God punish David on this Earth? That's just one example.

Hello Aspzan, yes, there are examples of God punishing certain individuals, but where do we find the general principle of God doing so, especially in the NT following the Lord's death and resurrection? Does He punish every sin, or just certain sins?

He clearly disciplines all of us who are His own children .. e.g. Hebrews 12:7-11, but that happens with or without regard to a particular sin. It is, after all, His will that we grow in sanctification (that we become more and more Christlike, and that we learn to keep our eyes on Him and on our future life with Him, rather than on the things of this world), so it seems to me that He disciplines us for our good .. Hebrews 12:10, rather than punishing us because we've sinned (Jesus has already taken our punishment for us, yes, when He died on the Cross in our stead to atone for our sins?).

Isn't 1 John 3 talking about the Holy Spirit and not the flesh?

I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean? 1 John 3, at least the part of the chapter in question, speaks of/compares the saint and the reprobate in regards to sin, does it not? Here's the passage for reference sake.

1 John 3
4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin.
6 No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen Him or known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as He is righteous.
8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
​

--David

 

[DebbieJ]

Faith without works is dead.

Saying, "I love you" to someone when you have no feelings for them, is dead. There's no love and it will show. It's same with a politician who waves the Bible for the sake of his re-election, his faith is dead. It will show.

When a person has faith, he feels it within his heart. His brethrens will feel it. You're always communicating with the Lord, always praying. You crave his words. Your conscience is always bothering you when you sin and you ask for forgiveness. You strive to be a better version of yourself for the Lord while acknowledging your weaknesses and your full dependence on him for the forgiveness of your sins you commit daily. You humble yourself before the Lord, for without him, you're dead in your sins -- "Lord have mercy on me, for I'm a sinner and I can't help it! I need you!" When you spend time with the Lord, it automatically shows in your deed. There's a change in attitude. Faith without works is dead, just as love without feelings is dead.

Faith has nothing to do with charitable works -- you help the needy, visit the sick, helping an elderly carry his groceries, be a good boy and good girl, and etc. This is not evidence for faith. An atheist can do this as well. For if faith is by good deeds in order to be saved, you nullify grace.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

My belief is you only can possibly be not saved (or something along those lines) if you willingly sin. In my case I had a VERY bad porn addiction in the past. Now that I am better I still have a time where I may mess up and just look. Sometimes I am able to stop, other times God sends distractions that stop me. I am thankful for that.

So you can see progress. I went from looking endless times a day (and doing more if you know what I mean) to maybe looking once a month, maybe every few months I'd look. That's great progress so I know I am doing well and ok. Now if I was still looking every day, I'd doubt my salvation easily.

My mom on the other hand is a alcoholic whos goes into rage every day, lies, exaggerates, wants recognition, gets jealous, brings up the past...etc but still believes she is saved. I mean I am not to judge her of course because only God knows her heart. But looking at her 30 years ago and looking at her now, she hasn't made any progress. :/

 

[St_Worm2]

Well, there are all kinds of ways how God could punish you. He could cause you to lose your job, he could cause you to get a disease, he could cause you to have all kinds of problems, etc. The Bible teaches that once we are saved we have become children of God. Just like a loving parent punishes their children, God also punishes his children.

Hebrews 12:6-7:
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

Proverbs 29:1:
"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy."

Proverbs 3:11-12:
"My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth."

Someone else has already paid the price for our sins Why would God "punish" us for sins that the Lord Jesus has already been punished for in our stead?

There is no question that the Lord disciplines us for our good, but I don't believe that He punishes us for sins which have already been forgiven in Christ. You continue:

You will not lose salvation by living a sinful life........

The Bible .. e.g. 1 John 3:4-10, makes the point that those who "claim" to be Christians, but who continue in or quickly return to living the sinful lifestyle of a non-Christian, are children of the devil who never came to saving faith, not children of the living God (no matter what they claim or believe about themselves). A Christian who lives like a non-Christian is most likely not a Christian at all. They didn't lose their salvation, because they were never saved to begin with (which their continually sinful, unrepentant lifestyle demonstrates).

1 John 3
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God...
​

God changes us by giving us a new heart and a new spirit (and the Holy Spirit), by quickening us/making us alive (spiritually) and by causing us to be born again such that we become His workmanship as wholly new creatures in Christ .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; 1 Corinthians 2:12-16; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:1-5, 8-10. One of the principle things that characterizes God's new creations is that we are (typically) grieved by and abhor sin, and we want to repent and be forgiven as soon as the HS convicts us of it.

When we sinned as non-believers, we did so ~according~ to our old nature. Whenever we sin now, as believers, we do so ~against~ our new nature (which is why sin bothers and hurts us in a way that it never did prior to becoming a true Christian) .. e.g. Ephesians 4:22-24.

Finally, while I believe that it is possible to act out of character/against our nature for a time, in the end, what we do/how we live (how we act/speak .. and even how we think) demonstrates, to ourselves and to others, who we really are.

--David

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So basically im at a loss right now ive heard that if i keep sinning im not saved even if its not willful sinning. And ive heard that it doesn't matter if i willfully sin or not your still saved. Ive also heard that if its my own will to stop sinning, that means its not the holy spirit helping me which makes me someone who is basing Salvation on just my works not Jesus death and resurrection on the cross. Can anyone help explain because in the bible some verses make it seem like without works we aren't saved but that you dont need to have any works and your saved. Im just confused and need some guidance with this. Thank you all God bless.

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26).

 

[Basil the Great]

The "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine sounds very nice and is certainly reassuring. However, there is little evidence, if any, that many Christians accepted said belief until the past few centuries. Even today, the majority of the world's Christians do not profess such a belief. Now this does not necessarily mean that the doctrine is not sound. However, it should give all of us pause to wonder.....