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If I can't be saved, I think I may know why

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by Bob8102, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Bob8102

    Bob8102 Member

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    If I cannot be saved, I think I may know why. I won’t let go of myself and my pride. I’ve sought salvation for over ten years. I appreciate especially Idonjohn’s posts in response to my posts, because he says he has had the same struggle as me. He says he had several miserable years in which he would pray, then doubt, then pray, then doubt, in a repeating cycle. He would ask himself things like, ‘Did I really repent? Did I mean it when I told God I would serve Him the rest of my life?’ etc. It is the same with me. Idonjohn says that one night, he gave up seeking assurance of salvation and prayed to God, ‘Show me how to believe.’ He says that was the turning point. He says as he studied his Bible over the next couple of days, the Holy Spirit showed him that he was going to be saved by what Jesus did on the cross, not by anything he had done or could do. He says then he acquired the peace of God. That was over 40 years ago and he’s been at peace, since. He says he cannot explain or describe the peace of God to someone who does not have it.

    Idonjohn’s several miserable years make it seem like he had religious OCD, like I do. But OCD is a lifelong, neurological/physiological ailment and the experts who give advice on it say that sufferers should not expect it to go away, but should learn how to manage it. Idonjohn having been at peace for 40 years makes it sound like no way he has OCD.

    In my seeking of salvation, I have recently, among other things, gone over in my head what Idonjohn said. The part about asking God to show him how to believe and the Holy Spirit’s revelation to him. But going over that does not give me assurance of salvation any more than anything else I try. I have, on a number of occasions, decided, “This is it. I am now going to seek salvation all out, full time, to the exclusion of everything else, until I know I am in the Kingdom of God.” Then I plan to take all day or days or weeks seeking, until I find. This usually ends with my being sure I am saved. But after I get assured, doubt shortly creeps in again and I doubt I am saved. This is the OCD pattern. Grantley Morris has some websites for Christians with OCD. I have written to him and he has written me back a few times. One point at which I became temporarily assured of salvation was after reading an email from him on the 11th of this month. But, as always, the assurance did not last. Maybe I need to address this as an OCD issue, not a salvation issue. Or maybe I’m not really saved.

    Many people get saved in a moment. I’ve been at it for over 10 years and still can’t seem to get it right. One thing I theorize is that, in my heart of hearts, I am so tightly clinging to self and to pride that all of my seeking of salvation is really a sham. Maybe God sees me reading my Bible, praying, striving for that moment of salvation, including by repeating relevant Bible verses over and over, but maybe He also sees that at the center of my heart of hearts is an idol: me. That was what I read one time as an explanation for the rich young ruler’s problem. The guy who walked sadly away from Jesus.

    Because of my repeated doubts, I feel ready to set out to seek salvation full time again, to make sure I enter the Kingdom and never doubt again, afterward. If other people get saved in a moment, can’t I get saved in the next two hours? Or days? Or whatever? But I’ve set out on this quest at other times previous. The result is always the same, in the long run: doubt.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
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  2. Pillar Rose

    Pillar Rose New Member

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    Hello fellow fighter

    I once knew a person who had your struggles, and I pray he is still alive and well.

    From my take, it's not about whether you have salvation or not because you already are saved. The thing is that perhaps it's your heart, somewhere in your heart there were wounds left by certain teachings or anything that at this point made you question your salvation, and the wounds are open...there are things that can trigger religious OCD

    If you desire, you can search for Mark DeJesus on YouTube. I don't have answers to anything but I'll offer help the best I can.
     
  3. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +4,204
    Canada
    Baptist
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    Salvation is a Person - Jesus Christ - not a feeling of perfect certainty.

    1 John 5:11-12
    11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


    The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, comes to live within the person who has placed their trust in Christ as their Savior and Lord (Romans 10:9-10).

    Titus 3:4-7
    4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
    5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
    6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
    7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


    1 John 4:13
    13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

    1 Corinthians 6:19-20
    19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
    20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.


    John 3:5-8
    5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
    8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

    Jesus, the Savior, our Salvation, comes to live within every person who trusts in him, doing so in the Person of the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit takes up residence within, he acts upon the saved person to change them, revealing his presence within them in so doing, and certifying their redeemed condition. By the work he accomplishes within the saved person, he "bears witness with their spirit" that they are a born-again child of God. (Romans 8:16)

    What are signs of the Spirit within?

    1. Conviction of sin (John 16:8)
    2. Illumination of God's Truth. (John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16)
    3. Strengthening in times of temptation and testing. (Ephesians 3:16; Romans 8:13; Philippians 2:13; Philippians 4:13)
    4. Comfort in times of trouble and tragedy. (2 Corinthians 1:3-5)
    5. Transformation of character. (Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 5:9; Romans 8:29)
    6. Discipline. (Hebrews 12:5-11)
    7. Imparts a love of the Christian brethren. (1 John 3:14)

    God doesn't leave it up us to feel we are saved, to base our confidence in our salvation solely upon a subjective sense we are born-again. No, He acts in our lives in a direct, concrete, objective way, interacting with us Person-to-person in the manner described above.

    We humans are chronically, pathologically self-centered - even when it comes to our salvation. We want to make ourselves central to what God does in saving us from ourselves. How odd is that? And so, we position ourselves as the pivot point, the crucial crux, of our salvation, hanging the whole thing on our sincerity, on the strength of our belief, on our success in "living right," and so on. But, God comes to us and says very clearly, "You are too weak, to sin-sick, to contribute in any way to my saving of you." All we can do is receive, humbly, the work of the Great Physician in removing from us the "tumor" of sin.
     
  4. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

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    Over the years I believe much of the truth is found where Solomon says that we should fear the Lord and keep His commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14). The Lord adds a greater positive understanding to Solomon’s wisdom in that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments ( John 14:15-18). Note that God as Father, Son, & Holy Spirit is testified by the Lord in John:14:15-18). The Lord’s commandments ( for ex. Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10 etc.) are basically lived out in alms giving and prayer ( Matthew 6:1-15).

    I try to pray for myself and my neighbor while repenting of my sins daily as the Lord’s Prayer says. Also pray the Lord of the harvest for the salvation of others ( Matthew 9:36-38).I remember to set aside something from each paycheck for charity. While we are saved by grace through faith to do good works ( Ephesians 2:8-10), the Lord warns us that works are necessary but secondary ( see Luke 17:5-10, Luke 18:9-14).

    Understanding such truth has kept the hope of salvation alive for me and though I often sorrow, I do not despair.
     
  5. Irkle Berserkle

    Irkle Berserkle Member Supporter

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    You're imposing your own notions on God's promises. God doesn't promise you'll never doubt again. Irkle (me) promises you will. I had a startling born-again experience 52 years ago, but I still have doubts - about the reality of that experience, the existence of God, the whole ball of wax. I guarantee you, the Pope has the same doubts. Billy Graham had the same doubts. You're imposing a standard that is impossible to achieve. Simply take God at His word and live your life accordingly. Confess, repent and move forward with your life, accepting the inevitable doubts as the reality of life for all Christians. Those who claim doubt-free certainty are simply lying to themselves and pretending. I'm sure your OCD is a challenge, but it shouldn't keep you from having the same conviction in your salvation that other Christians have; you're getting in your own way, blocking what God can accomplish through you. In sports we call it paralysis through analysis.
     
  6. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    So you are not able to believe that anyone who trust in Jesus (The Messiah) for God's free gift of Eternal Life has received Eternal Life.

    I am curious why can you not trust in Jesus for Eternal life.
     
  7. Pillar Rose

    Pillar Rose New Member

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    In my own experience with a friend who questions his salvation from time to time. For people with any kind of OCD, including religious OCD, a person can't shake off intrusive thoughts easily compared to person without it.

    There are potentially backgrounds that enables our friend here to have such thinking, including the way he was taught in the past, perhaps, or sermons he listened to, or certain events that he can't seem to shake off....
     
  8. Pillar Rose

    Pillar Rose New Member

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    You look in the depths of your heart, if there is anything in your life, a father figure perhaps, that cause you to mirror The Lord as someone who can neglect you easily or take away your salvation, there is definitely something to be done.
     
  9. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    you can not obtain what is already yours ....
     
  10. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    I knew a person like this. he never had any confidence that he believed in The Messiah for Eternal Life. So i understand what you are saying. He literally worried himself to death.
     
  11. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

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  12. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    If it is your confidence that is the key to your salvation, then you, your feeling of being sure you're saved, is what saves you, not God. You are required to trust God, though, regardless of what you do or don't feel. God has said in His word that when you acknowledge your sinful rebellion toward Him, repent of a life not centered on Him and trust in Christ as your Savior and Lord, you will be saved. That's it. Trust Him. Not your feelings.

    Romans 10:9-10
    Ephesians 2:8-10.
    John 3:16
     
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