If homosexuality is proven to be biological . . .

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WatersMoon110

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Right, and a gay person could marry someone of the opposite gender, but they choose not to. They don't want to get married in the way that marriage is now - they want to change what marriage is.

Why should the homosexual's view justify changing the legal definition of marriage?
Because the 14th Amendment states that all US Citizens should be granted equal rights.

Homosexuals do not have the right to marry the consenting adult they love. The only reason anyone wants to prevent them from getting this right is religious in nature. Therefore, there is no valid ethical reason to oppose this; and it needs to be legal.

Don't you believe all humans equal?
 
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angellica

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Because the 14th Amendment states that all US Citizens should be granted equal rights.

Homosexuals do not have the right to marry the consenting adult they love. The only reason anyone wants to prevent them from getting this right is religious in nature. Therefore, there is no valid ethical reason to oppose this; and it needs to be legal.

Don't you believe all humans equal?
The definition of marriage is not being able to marry a consenting adult that they love, it's being able to marry a consenting, unrelated (in most states) adult of the opposite sex.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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I don't view it as "taking away" someone's rights. I see it the same way I see single people not being able to take advantage of a friend's insurance, not being able to adopt a child with their friend, etc. Single people choose not to get married and therefore miss out on benefits, but it's their choice. Why should homosexuals views that homosexuality is okay force the definition of marriage to be changed?
Why should your uneducated view that it is not acceptable trump the viewd of the Psychiatric and scientific communities that have time and again it is normal and natural? And yes it is a single persons CHOICE to not get married but you are taking away that very CHOICE from homosexual couples and the only thing you use is a book written millenia ago that has no bearing on determining the rights of the citizens of this country.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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Right, and a gay person could marry someone of the opposite gender, but they choose not to. They don't want to get married in the way that marriage is now - they want to change what marriage is.
And again and again you spout unjustified opinions that have proven to be impossible in reality. Gay people cannot love or be attracted to someone of the opposite sex in the way they need to be to for marriage but you have proven that you do not care about the mental health or happiness of those involved nor of the fcat that said marriage would be a sham.

Why should the homosexual's view justify changing the legal definition of marriage?
There is no set legal definition of anything, definitions are fluid and change with the times they are in.
 
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angellica

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Why should your uneducated view that it is not acceptable trump the viewd of the Psychiatric and scientific communities that have time and again it is normal and natural? And yes it is a single persons CHOICE to not get married but you are taking away that very CHOICE from homosexual couples and the only thing you use is a book written millenia ago that has no bearing on determining the rights of the citizens of this country.
Please to not resort to personal attacks.

As far as I know, it is still in debate whether being gay is purely genetic. There are cases where one identical twin is gay and the other is not, just as an example of evidence contradicting the purely genetic aspect.
 
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WatersMoon110

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The definition of marriage is not being able to marry a consenting adult that they love, it's being able to marry a consenting, unrelated (in most states) adult of the opposite sex.
The definition of marriage used to be two people, no closer than about 2nd cousins, of the same race and opposite genders could marry. But then we figured out as a country (after the Supreme Court finally agreed) that it wasn't constitutional to deny this right to interracial couples.

The definition of marriage needs to change, because it is currently not equal and that it unconstitutional. The only reasons people oppose this change is religious in nature - and we do not (or at least, should not) base US laws only on religious beliefs.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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The definition of marriage is not being able to marry a consenting adult that they love, it's being able to marry a consenting, unrelated (in most states) adult of the opposite sex.
The churchs definition maybe but not secular society who ultimately determine what is right or wrong for society as a whole.
 
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Beanieboy

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how do you think fundie Christians will handle it?

My guess is that they would say something like, "Alcoholism is biological, but that doesn't mean that you have to become an alcoholic."

Some will probably blame the "homosexual agenda" for trying to convince scientists that it is biological, and still claim that it is a choice.

Some will say that Downs Syndrome is biological, being born deaf or blind is biological, and something that one can work around, as if being homosexual was a kind of deformity.

Some will quote:
Mathew 19:12
2For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

However, researching eunuch in wikipedia, one will find the origins during religion:
Among the earliest records of human religion are accounts of castration as an act of devotion, and sacred eunuchs are found in spiritual roles. Archaeological finds at Çatalhöyük, a large Neolithic town of southern Anatolia, suggest that such practises were common in the worship as far back as 7500 BC of a goddess similar perhaps to the Cybele of historical records.[citation needed] The Galli, later Roman followers of Cybele, also practiced ritual self-castration, known as sanguinaria. The practice is said to have continued throughout Christian times, with many of the early church castrating themselves as an act of devotion, although the extent and even the existence of this practice among Christians is controversial.[11][unreliable source?]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

I don't think anyone will say, "So, we were wrong. It's not just a choice, or a lifestyle choice, or someone who is heterosexual just performing same-sex sex acts."

The most disturbing thing that I heard on conservative radio (it's good to know one's enemies), is that they were insistent that homosexuality was not biological. After being adamant about that claim, they said, "and even if they did find a gay gene, then we could irradicate it."
Like cleansing the population.

I think it will also put such people in a quandry. What do they do now about religious conversion therapy, if they know the person is naturally homosexual? Can one really blame a homosexual for having same-sex attractions, the same way that heterosexuals have opposite sex attractions? Do homosexuals actually fall in love with same sex people? Why would God create homosexuals? If homosexuals are biological, should they be granted minority biological status?

Do verses like,
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

really apply to biological homosexuals, since they aren't turning against their nature, but acting on it? (One has to ask if it speaks of homosexuals at all, since it was referring to people who

In my personal opinion Paul was referring to same sex sexual acts committed in idolatrous worship by people he regarded as heterosexual. Even the most conservative theologian can only give their opinion as to what type of same sex acts Paul was referring to. No one can state that God clearly condemns all homosexuality activity based upon these verses. It is just too vague.
http://whosoever.org/bible/romans.shtml

There was a funny letter to the editor from a pastor of a church. He was asking the congregation to welcome homosexuals to worship at the church, because they are God's children as well. And old woman came up to him as he greeted everyone after the service. She asked him to reconsider, and the pastor asked her if a gay person came to the church, and Jesus was at the door, would he welcome him, or tell him to go away. She answered, "Well, He would probably let the gay man in, but He would be wrong!"

And I think that sums up what I think. Jesus himself could appear, and tell everyone that homosexuality as we understand it today is not what anyone was talking about in any of the passages listed in the bible, and people would still believe what they wanted to about it, mostly because it is easier to focus on the "sins" of others, and ignore your own. I also allows you to dehumanize the person, and justify not loving your neighbor as yourself, because they are somehow lower than you, and undeserving of your love, and some even tell themselves that even God doesn't love them.

When one goes to that extreme, hating in the name of God, and quoting scripture to support it, one doesn't know God, according to I John 4:7-8, so I don't think it has anything about doing what is right, or upholding morality, but being superior, and the swan song of scapegoating a minority for all the world's ills, and find yourself often agreed with and congratulated, the way a racist would be agreed with by other racists.

A lot of it is because times have changed a lot. My grandparents, who were very religious, would look at each other back in the 70s when ever a black person, like Flip Wilson, came on TV, and giggle, "Darkies" or some other slur, and thought that it didn't conflict with their Christianity at all.
 
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arizonasunset

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And as we all know, violence and domestic abuse isn't at all prevalent in heterosexual relationships. In fact, I don't think heterosexuals ever have domestic abuse issues. :doh:


They're all the same sugar :)


Gosh, I don't know why your daughter would ever have a problem admitting to somebody with your opinions that she was, from the beginning, destined to be something you find detestible and disgusting.


Didn't say that. I'm glad she was open about it.


It's less prevalent than the problem of heterosexuality.


No it's not. And that's the point.

And my previous post's point is proven.






Again, because we all know that people never have bad breakups as heterosexuals, never have horrible divorces, never have horrible relationships they just want to put behind them and start over, they never struggle over breaking up, they never get so upset they embark on a period of celibacy, and they never, ever, EVER get murdered by their current or previous significant others. Just ask Laci Peterson. Or Nicole Brown Simpson. Or the late wife of the Santa massacare murderer. Never happens.

Which is again the point that it's the same thing. No difference between the two types except personal choice.





Again, issues completely unique to homosexual relationships. The jealous, adulterous, violent heterosexual lover? Doesn't exist. And as we know, the current "down turn" and rash of credit issues, foreclosures, and bankrupcys is a strict homosexual-only problem.

And again. Choice.




Gosh... And the only common denominator there is the homosexuality, not the participants and their choices in lovers.


Wow and again choice.



Yes, there must be a better way to sugar coat "we hate what you do and who you love and your practice will cement your future being forever tortured in hell." If only Christians would express such judgment in a nice way, homosexuals would be so much more accomidating to their systematic oppression in a nation supposedly built on equal rights and opportunities for all, regardless of what goes on in the bedroom. :doh:


This must go for everyone as well. BTW direct is not an option anymore in the political correct society we live in... what a misdirected concept from a nation who must be pampered, wined, and dine. Actually the word should be whined.

So far I see choice in this situation not genetics.

Not to mention social sturcture.

And all the happy nonsense that makes it possible for one person to redirect a company. Where the company complies to the demand of an employee who insist that no one wear the color orange. The reason? Because her mother died in a car accident and the color of the car that killed her was orange.

Still Scripture calls it an abomination to the Lord God Almighty. There are no rights for them in the court we all stand in front of for judgement.

There is no political correctness in the court of Adoni. And praise God for that. :)


 
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WatersMoon110

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As far as I know, it is still in debate whether being gay is purely genetic. There are cases where one identical twin is gay and the other is not, just as an example of evidence contradicting the purely genetic aspect.
But identical twins are far more likely to be of the same sexual orientation than not.

I agree though that sexual orientation doesn't seem to be only biological in nature. But it certainly seems to have genetic components to it, from what I have read and learned.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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Please to not resort to personal attacks.

As far as I know, it is still in debate whether being gay is purely genetic. There are cases where one identical twin is gay and the other is not, just as an example of evidence contradicting the purely genetic aspect.
It is not a personal attack, you are not educated scientifically or psychologically on the issue therefore that is the definition of uneducated as to the topic at hand.

There are also twins where one has blue eyes and the other brown eyes, that is genetic. Genetics can comprise one allele on one gene or multiple alleles on multiple genes so it can be far more than just a simple recessive trait.
 
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angellica

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It is not a personal attack, you are not educated scientifically or psychologically on the issue therefore that is the definition of uneducated as to the topic at hand.

There are also twins where one has blue eyes and the other brown eyes, that is genetic. Genetics can comprise one allele on one gene or multiple alleles on multiple genes so it can be far more than just a simple recessive trait.
You actually don't know whether I'm more educated than you or less educated than you. Just because you think you are right doesn't make you more educated. I think I'm right, but I have no idea which one of us has read more on the issue.
 
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WatersMoon110

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Still Scripture calls it an abomination to the Lord God Almighty. There are no rights for them in the court we all stand in front of for judgement.

There is no political correctness in the court of Adoni. And praise God for that.
The Bible does not ever mention homosexuality as we have it today - two adults of the same gender who romantically love one another.

And the God that I know and love does not condemn anyone for requited love. You seem to forget that it is only for God to judge us, not for us humans to judge one another.

Let us only act out of love, and remember to love each other as we love ourselves, and as we love God.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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This must go for everyone as well. BTW direct is not an option anymore in the political correct society we live in... what a misdirected concept from a nation who must be pampered, wined, and dine. Actually the word should be whined.

So far I see choice in this situation not genetics.

Not to mention social sturcture.

And all the happy nonsense that makes it possible for one person to redirect a company. Where the company complies to the demand of an employee who insist that no one wear the color orange. The reason? Because her mother died in a car accident and the color of the car that killed her was orange.

Still Scripture calls it an abomination to the Lord God Almighty. There are no rights for them in the court we all stand in front of for judgement.

There is no political correctness in the court of Adoni. And praise God for that. :)
Well my job is as a geneticist and there have already been many biological variations found that are exhibited solely by gay people which of course proves it is biological in nature.

You should read and understand what science says, not just the bible before you form an opinion since ultimately science and not religion determine the course of law in this country.
 
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angellica

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We should start denying rights to fundi Christians. You know, forbid them the right to have a legally binding marriage, then as a result, the right to get benefits under the law. Fundementalism is destructive, and the repulsive practice, which I find highly personally offensive, is something that is a choice and not a biological need... And hey, if they don't like it, they can convert to another faith. I don't see why an entire government and it's people should have to change the definition of marriage under the law to accomidate people that believe something I find personally repugnant just because they make the choice to adhere to their beliefs.
I feel the same way about gays.
 
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Beanieboy

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Right, and a gay person could marry someone of the opposite gender, but they choose not to. They don't want to get married in the way that marriage is now - they want to change what marriage is.

Why should the homosexual's view justify changing the legal definition of marriage?

You approve of homosexuals marrying someone of the opposite sex?
Would YOU marry a gay guy?

Homosexual couples simply want the same LEGAL rights as heterosexuals, such as property rights, my partner making life and death decisions for me because he is considered next of kin, etc.

And that bothers you?
 
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keith99

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But identical twins are far more likely to be of the same sexual orientation than not.

I agree though that sexual orientation doesn't seem to be only biological in nature. But it certainly seems to have genetic components to it, from what I have read and learned.

There is more to biological then genetics. There is not so new research that indicates sexual orientation is strongly influenced by hormonal levels when in the womb.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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You actually don't know whether I'm more educated than you or less educated than you. Just because you think you are right doesn't make you more educated. I think I'm right, but I have no idea which one of us has read more on the issue.
I work in a well known research lab and have a PH. D in Genetics, I would say I am more educated on this topic.
 
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angellica

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You approve of homosexuals marrying someone of the opposite sex?
Would YOU marry a gay guy?

Homosexual couples simply want the same LEGAL rights as heterosexuals, such as property rights, my partner making life and death decisions for me because he is considered next of kin, etc.

And that bothers you?
I believe marriage is between a man and woman. If that means that two men in love lose out on property rights, then maybe they should try to change the property rights.
 
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