If homosexuality is proven to be biological . . .

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Washington

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how do you think fundamentalist Christians will handle it?
 
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Washington

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It would still be a sin. You could say being violent is biological, but it's still a sin if you act on it.
How can one say being violent is biological?

If it was, then no amount rehabilitative efforts would have any effect, but the fact is, they do.
 
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angellica

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OphidiaPhile

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WatersMoon110

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I believe that there are far more people rehabilitated from violent behavior, who do not commit another violent crime; than there are who are "rehabilitated" from homosexuality. The majority of "success stories" for ex-gays are celibate. Also, trying to "make" people into ex-gays isn't considered valid therapy by the APA - but counseling for violent or angry people is, and has been shown to help in many cases.

I was under the impression that the majority do end up becoming ex-ex-gays and go back to dating people of their own gender.
 
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Washington

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Unfortunately, I no longer have the resource to quote, but it's been well demonstrated that the type of conversion indicated in your link occurs among bisexuals rather than outright homosexuals---those comparable to outright heterosexuals.

And because it's too soon to take the OP off topic with this side issue I ask that it not be pursued right now. Feel free to revisit it if you wish when the thread dies down.

Thank you and everyone else for understanding.
 
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WatersMoon110

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There has NEVER been a single homosexual person not on the payroll of a church that has said they were no longer gay.
To be fair, there aren't any homosexual people trying to be "ex-gay" (celibate) that aren't members of a conservative Christian church. It makes sense that those same churches would want to parade around the few that manage to become celibate (or the ones that marry someone they are not attracted to, poor things).
 
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WatersMoon110

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Unfortunately, I no longer have the resource to quote, but it's been well demonstrated that the type of conversion indicated in your link occurs among bisexuals rather than outright homosexuals---those comparable to outright heterosexuals.

And because it's too soon to take the OP off topic with this side issue I ask that it not be pursued right now. Feel free to revisit it if you wish when the thread dies down.

Thank you and everyone else for understanding.
What! You want use to address the OP? *shock* *grin*

Fine:
If homosexuality is proven to be biological. . . how do you think [Fundamentalist] Christians will handle it?
They'll either deny it, and continue to go on asserting that sexual orientation is a choice. Or they will claim it is a mental disorder and/or birth defect. Either way, they will certainly go on asserting that Homosexuals are sinning and advocating against Gay Marriage until the Supreme Court rules that even gay people should get equal rights. I assume that will end up quieting most of them after a while - just like people no longer listen to racists who were against legalizing interracial marriage.
 
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angellica

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Unfortunately, I no longer have the resource to quote, but it's been well demonstrated that the type of conversion indicated in your link occurs among bisexuals rather than outright homosexuals---those comparable to outright heterosexuals.

And because it's too soon to take the OP off topic with this side issue I ask that it not be pursued right now. Feel free to revisit it if you wish when the thread dies down.

Thank you and everyone else for understanding.
Okay, here's my answer to the OP. I would still believe that participating in homosexual activities is a sin. Whether the attraction is biological or not, the choice to participate in the activities is not, so I'd still think it was a sin.
 
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arizonasunset

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Wow peeps... interesting!! I certainly stand in agreement with Scripture concerning this issue.

However, homosexuality is a real and increasing issue. In my shortened amount of time on this planet, I have come to know several.

I find the interpersonal relationships interesting. The relationships are not unique to me in anyway. One always plays their own gender... that's always been curious to me.

I've also found homosexual relationships, more so female than male, are usually violent. Domestic violence is usually prevelant. It might because females are more wrapped up in emotionalism and intuitiveness. Whereas the male relationships seem to fine.

My step-daughter is a lesbian. She couldn't even begin to tell me she was born that way. It came out of her mouth but then she hung her head. Her significant other didn't have a problem with telling me, however, that she was born that way.

Does it matter that this woman I spent so much of my life investing in became a lesbian? Honestly in the beginning it very much did. To hate the sin and not the sinner took a lot to practice. Which brings this little dissertation to full circle.

Homosexuality is a prevelant problem in our society, in the churches throughout America. I know nothing of outside America so please forgive my insensitivity.

So after all these words what would fundamentalist think if it's proven to be genetic. The same thing they think of dancing and music.

For me personally I don't believe it and it won't be proven but it's worth trying.

After having spent time with a couple of ladies who so desperately wanted to put the same sex relationship behind them and start over, the struggle was horrible. And you're right the one ended up celebate. The other... her significant other murdered her. Yep she's dead.

My step-daughter and the significant other I met are no longer together. To much jealousy, financial problems, cheating, and eventually domestic violence.

The significant other found another and you know what? The same thing happened.

Hey the same thing is happening in my step-daughters "new" relationship.

This is a difficult subject, however, the church should wake up and learn how to properly deal with the situation. What a turn off "Christians" are when faced with this situation. Quoting Scripture... well how would you like if a very treasured loved one died and another came up beside you and said, "Well Scripture says The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Cheer up!"

Good luck all.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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What! You want use to address the OP? *shock* *grin*

Fine:
They'll either deny it, and continue to go on asserting that sexual orientation is a choice. Or they will claim it is a mental disorder and/or birth defect. Either way, they will certainly go on asserting that Homosexuals are sinning and advocating against Gay Marriage until the Supreme Court rules that even gay people should get equal rights. I assume that will end up quieting most of them after a while - just like people no longer listen to racists who were against legalizing interracial marriage.
They will say it is just part of the gay agenda to prove it is biological which proves it is not biological.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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Okay, here's my answer to the OP. I would still believe that participating in homosexual activities is a sin. Whether the attraction is biological or not, the choice to participate in the activities is not, so I'd still think it was a sin.
What does it matter what you or anyone else thinks of it being a sin, is that really enough justification for you to take away another human beings civil rights?
 
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WatersMoon110

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What does it matter what you or anyone else thinks of it being a sin, is that really enough justification for you to take away another human being's civil rights?
It shouldn't matter when it comes to laws.

But some people can justify their desire to keep certain rights from a minority using their religious beliefs, which lead them to believe that certain minority is sinful.

I think I heard that, during the Civil Rights (for Black people) movement, there were racists that felt justified keeping rights from Black people; because being Black was a punishment to the tribe of Ham (the son of Noah who "beheld his father's nakedness"). Those racists actually considered Black people to be disliked by God, so of course it was okay for them not to like those people.

I don't get it. If one believes that all people are equal, I don't see how one could justify trying to keep any people from getting the same rights they have/can get.
 
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angellica

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What does it matter what you or anyone else thinks of it being a sin, is that really enough justification for you to take away another human beings civil rights?
I don't view it as "taking away" someone's rights. I see it the same way I see single people not being able to take advantage of a friend's insurance, not being able to adopt a child with their friend, etc. Single people choose not to get married and therefore miss out on benefits, but it's their choice. Why should homosexuals views that homosexuality is okay force the definition of marriage to be changed?
 
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Washington

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Short of God coming down and saying "Hey, homosexuality is biological... I create people to be gay," I do not think there will ever be enough proof to satisfy true fundies that homosexuality is biological. We're talking about a crowd that doesn't believe there's any scientific backing for evolution, here... So obviously, it's going to take something beyond the rationed logic of science to get people to finally grasp that denying people rights, respect, and equality based on being gay is about as rational as denying people rights based on their hair color.
And I think you're absolutely correct. For such people the facts of science will never usurp the interpreted claims of the Bible. Such a thing is simply not allowed.
 
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WatersMoon110

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I don't view it as "taking away" someone's rights. I see it the same way I see single people not being able to take advantage of a friend's insurance, not being able to adopt a child with their friend, etc.
Most people do not wish to marry their friends. And single people can adopt. If a person wanted to marry a friend of the opposite gender, they could.

Single people choose not to get married and therefore miss out on benefits, but it's their choice.
But same sex couples want to get married.

Why should homosexuals views that homosexuality is okay force the definition of marriage to be changed?
Why should Fundamentalist's view that homosexuality is sinful be just cause to legally deny marriage to same sex couples?
 
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angellica

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Most people do not wish to marry their friends. And single people can adopt. If a person wanted to marry a friend of the opposite gender, they could.


But same sex couples want to get married.
Right, and a gay person could marry someone of the opposite gender, but they choose not to. They don't want to get married in the way that marriage is now - they want to change what marriage is.

Why should Fundamentalist's view that homosexuality is sinful be just cause to legally deny marriage to same sex couples?
Why should the homosexual's view justify changing the legal definition of marriage?
 
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Wow peeps... interesting!! I certainly stand in agreement with Scripture concerning this issue.

However, homosexuality is a real and increasing issue. In my shortened amount of time on this planet, I have come to know several.

I find the interpersonal relationships interesting. The relationships are not unique to me in anyway. One always plays their own gender... that's always been curious to me.

I've also found homosexual relationships, more so female than male, are usually violent. Domestic violence is usually prevelant. It might because females are more wrapped up in emotionalism and intuitiveness. Whereas the male relationships seem to fine.
So you believe a book written a few millenia ago over all modern biological,sociological and psychiatric science that it is indeed biological in nature, interesting.

And I live in Berkeley CA which has a very high number of gay people and they tend to be more loving and caring than the heterosexual couples I know and there is far less violence.

My step-daughter is a lesbian. She couldn't even begin to tell me she was born that way. It came out of her mouth but then she hung her head. Her significant other didn't have a problem with telling me, however, that she was born that way.
It should not be that difficult for a child to tell their parent who the are.

Does it matter that this woman I spent so much of my life investing in became a lesbian? Honestly in the beginning it very much did. To hate the sin and not the sinner took a lot to practice. Which brings this little dissertation to full circle.

Homosexuality is a prevelant problem in our society, in the churches throughout America. I know nothing of outside America so please forgive my insensitivity.

Why do you have to look at it as a problem and not just a variation of the human condition?
So after all these words what would fundamentalist think if it's proven to be genetic. The same thing they think of dancing and music.

For me personally I don't believe it and it won't be proven but it's worth trying.

After having spent time with a couple of ladies who so desperately wanted to put the same sex relationship behind them and start over, the struggle was horrible. And you're right the one ended up celebate. The other... her significant other murdered her. Yep she's dead.

Dancing and music are very natural human forms of expression just as being gay is very normal and naural.

My step-daughter and the significant other I met are no longer together. To much jealousy, financial problems, cheating, and eventually domestic violence.
Not things that I have ever experienced in gay couples here.



This is a difficult subject, however, the church should wake up and learn how to properly deal with the situation. What a turn off "Christians" are when faced with this situation. Quoting Scripture... well how would you like if a very treasured loved one died and another came up beside you and said, "Well Scripture says The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Cheer up!"

Good luck all.
It is not up to Christians to "deal" with it they just need to understand that everyone is different.
 
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