if Harry Potter were real he would be going to hell

[LittleLambofJesus]

We aren't supposed to consult mediums or do divination/follow omens or astrology, we aren't supposed to mutter magic words to perform spells/enchantments/sorcery -- whether or not we would do so in connection with a pagan deity or whether we did so merely as a technical experiment.

Do not practice divination or sorcery (Leviticus 19:26).

Tis true

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I've came to this thread rather late.

The Harry Potter movies share many similarities with the Narnia movies; magical beings, magical things, and struggles between good and evil; yet there was little debate of this nature regarding Narnia.

I think that this may be because the author of Narnia is a noted Christian Apologist who wrote many books and papers devoted to orthodox Apostolic theology. Could it be that because of who wrote Narnia and his other works, we look at it through a "positive" Christian "filter"; whereas without this point of reference, some of us look at Harry Potter through a "negative" Christian "filter"?

BTW, Alice in Wonderland was written by a Clergyman I believe, and it's just plain weird.

 

[Leah]

I'm surprised at how dull parents are, thinking that witchcraft is make believe, certianly Harry Potter movies push you into believing witchcraft is fantasy, but ask any real witch how much fantasy is there is in real witchcraft and you would be amazed. The bible tells you sorcery is an abomination, yet when young Harry does it, and your kid mimics Harry's sorcery you just smile and say "its make believe", I don't understand why anyone would want Harry Potter or any of the twilight actors to be your kids idols, or to be fans of these portayals of characters, that stand against everything God is against. Drinking blood, performing rituals of witchcraft, I don't understand if someone says "I love Jesus and want to please Him", and then they love these shows and movies, which are in complete contradiction to the behavior and character of Christ. How is this possible? is there no discernment between good and evil, because Harry is considered a good sorcerer, right! and in Gods eyes there are no good sorcerers, they all are evil

God bless you for speaking out so boldly against this and many will fight against what you've said, if they haven't already.

What's worse is that fact that there are christians who watch Harry Potter movies and say that somehow, they found God in them or a godly principle to live by. No, witchcraft is not of God now nor will it ever be, but is sure enough an abomination. Therefore, we (christians) are to reject that which is such to Him and not try to find some common ground in it when there is none. This is not a suggestion or something that's open for open opinion or discussion, but its a command from God.

If we want to have godly principles to live by, just read the bible. You won't find anything godly in Hollywood movies because most (if not all) Hollywood actors and actresses reject God and practice their own 'religion'.

 

[abysmul]

BTW, Alice in Wonderland was written by a Clergyman I believe, and it's just plain weird.

I think he was an Anglican deacon.

 

[RETS]

Frank, one question-

If Harry Potter goes to hell because he practices witchcraft, and that's the end according to you...


How do you explain those people who've come back from death, who were not at all Christians at the time of death? Did God forget to keep them bound? Or is it possible that there's more to life, and what comes after, than you or I can even attempt to know?

 

[prophecyistrue]

I think he was an Anglican deacon.

And just imagine Judas was an apostle hand picked by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and he was a devil

 

[Leah]

And a word of advice Frankleespeaking, watch out for rabbit trails and red herrings that are meant to sidetrack and derail the heart of the matter, even from those who say they're christians.

 

[FullyMT]

God bless you for speaking out so boldly against this and many will fight against what you've said, if they haven't already.

What's worse is that fact that there are christians who watch Harry Potter movies and say that somehow, they found God in them or a godly principle to live by. No, witchcraft is not of God now nor will it ever be, but is sure enough an abomination. Therefore, we (christians) are to reject that which is such to Him and not try to find some common ground in it when there is none. This is not a suggestion or something that's open for open opinion or discussion, but its a command from God.

If we want to have godly principles to live by, just read the bible. You won't find anything godly in Hollywood movies because most (if not all) Hollywood actors and actresses reject God and practice their own 'religion'.

If I said I found God in a sunset, would you say that is wrong? It is possible to find God in all things (whether that thing be sinful or not). That does not mean we must embrace it in its entirety or at all. For example, a sinful behavior can eventually lead a person towards God -- see Augustine and how, looking back, he saw God guiding him.

Harry Potter has Christian principles and values within it. It is entirely possible for a person to come to God through the book and become better Christians. They are not going to start doing sorcery and whatnot, but rather, through the books, have a better understanding of the Paschal mystery in some way that they did not before and have begun to appreciate the what Jesus did for us. (A similar appreciation can be gathered from Aslan in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe).

To the Original Post, from long ago, perhaps he would have. But that would not be for me to decide. We all could end up going to Hell! Only God gets to make the decision, and it is up to his love, mercy, and justice to decide that. Only God knows what grace He has offered us and whether or not a person has ultimately rejected Him.

 

[RETS]

I think he was an Anglican deacon.

That's correct.


There have been a few discoveries of late which cast the widely accepted version of the story's beginning in a new light- Or shadow, depending.

If these other accounts are to be believed, this story originated from a much darker place, and for a much darker reason.

 

[RETS]

And a word of advice Frankleespeaking, watch out for rabbit trails and red herrings that are meant to sidetrack and derail the heart of the matter, even from those who say they're christians.

Oh, absolutely. Also, watch out for those who would attempt to keep you inside a box.

That can be just as dangerous.

 

[ToBeInChrist]

The Harry Potter movies share many similarities with the Narnia movies; magical beings, magical things, and struggles between good and evil; yet there was little debate of this nature regarding Narnia.

This article, from The Christian Guide to Fantasy, talks about various literary devices used or not used in Narnia, Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter, which create 'literary hedges' around the magic found in such series. The author raises concerns about the Potter series as compared to the others, which have more of these literary hedges.

http://www.christianfantasy.net/sdg1.html

An excerpt:

"But is there equally no risk of young Harry Potter fans developing an unhealthy infatuation with the idea of magic, and in particular with the idea of studying and learning magic? Might not such infatuation, at some later date, in the absence of adequate parental guidance, be one factor influencing a child to respond more positively or with greater tolerance toward everyday occult phenomena? Might it be one factor influencing a child to respond with greater interest or tolerance to Wicca, or the Kabbalah?

"These seem to me reasonable concerns; and Christian parents may want to be aware that Rowling, unlike Tolkien or Lewis, doesn't seem to share them. Consequently, greater parental guidance is required to avoid the pitfalls of the use of magic in the Harry Potter books than in The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia.

I don't mean to suggest that the absence of these literary safeguards in Rowling automatically makes her work inherently unacceptable, harmful, or even necessarily morally inferior (though I do in fact think on other grounds that it is somewhat morally inferior). But I think that Christian readers, and particularly Christian parents, should be aware, first, of the pitfalls that always attend the use of magic in literature; and second, that Rowling has not given them the safeguards present in Tolkien and Lewis; and that if their children do read the Harry Potter books they may need extra guidance to avoid these pitfalls, which would not be the case with respect to The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia."

But more importantly:

"When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God. The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so. The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him." (Deut. 18:9-15)

 

[Leah]

If I said I found God in a sunset, would you say that is wrong? It is possible to find God in all things (whether that thing be sinful or not).

No, that's called panentheism.

That does not mean we must embrace it in its entirety or at all. For example, a sinful behavior can eventually lead a person towards God -- see Augustine and how, looking back, he saw God guiding him.

Harry Potter has Christian principles and values within it.
It is entirely possible for a person to come to God through the book and become better Christians. They are not going to start doing sorcery and whatnot, but rather, through the books, have a better understanding of the Paschal mystery in some way that they did not before and have begun to appreciate the what Jesus did for us. (A similar appreciation can be gathered from Aslan in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe).

Sooooo....rather than reading the bible, we can watch movies full of and that glamourize witchcraft to find God? Hebrews 1 (that's in bible) says that in these last days, God has spoken to us through His Son, Jesus Christ.

To the Original Post, from long ago, perhaps he would have. But that would not be for me to decide. We all could end up going to Hell!

We all deserve to go to hell. But thank God through Christ Jesus that He has provided the way for us to be forgiven of our sins and saved.

Only God gets to make the decision, and it is up to his love, mercy, and justice to decide that.

Upon repentance and faith, both of which God grants to the contrite sinner. God also draws people to Himself.

Only God knows what grace He has offered us and whether or not a person has ultimately rejected Him.

If someone is willfully doing something that is abominable to Him and lives a lifestyle of that sin (whether its done in ignorance or knowledge) without any intention of stopping and in fact celebrates that sin, then I think it'd be a fair assessment to say that he/she rejects Him.

 

[FullyMT]

This article, from The Christian Guide to Fantasy, talks about various literary devices used or not used in Narnia, Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter, which create 'literary hedges' around the magic found in such series. The author raises concerns about the Potter series as compared to the others, which have more of these literary hedges.

http://www.christianfantasy.net/sdg1.html

An excerpt:

"But is there equally no risk of young Harry Potter fans developing an unhealthy infatuation with the idea of magic, and in particular with the idea of studying and learning magic? Might not such infatuation, at some later date, in the absence of adequate parental guidance, be one factor influencing a child to respond more positively or with greater tolerance toward everyday occult phenomena? Might it be one factor influencing a child to respond with greater interest or tolerance to Wicca, or the Kabbalah?

"These seem to me reasonable concerns; and Christian parents may want to be aware that Rowling, unlike Tolkien or Lewis, doesn't seem to share them. Consequently, greater parental guidance is required to avoid the pitfalls of the use of magic in the Harry Potter books than in The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia.

I don't mean to suggest that the absence of these literary safeguards in Rowling automatically makes her work inherently unacceptable, harmful, or even necessarily morally inferior (though I do in fact think on other grounds that it is somewhat morally inferior). But I think that Christian readers, and particularly Christian parents, should be aware, first, of the pitfalls that always attend the use of magic in literature; and second, that Rowling has not given them the safeguards present in Tolkien and Lewis; and that if their children do read the Harry Potter books they may need extra guidance to avoid these pitfalls, which would not be the case with respect to The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia."

An issue with your quote:
Narnia and Lord of the Rings have existed for a number of decades, whereas Harry Potter is recent. Also, Lord of the Rings has a very strong cult following, which is similar to Harry Potter -- Harry Potter having a stronger base due to the simpler writing and faster plot.
Also, LotR and Narnia have, almost entirely, black and white situations (LotR exception being Smeagol). Harry Potter, on the other hand, has a number of characters in situations which are clearly not black and white, and, in my opinion, show the importance of conscience development and factors which can go into their development.
Harry Potter, especially the last four books books, are NOT for children under the age of 14, in my opinion, simply due to the over-arching theme of the book's gravity (death and love). Also, in book five, there is a lot of teenage angst and hormones, which may be difficult for a pre-teen reader to understand. Narnia does not have all of these things (okay, death and love is in the first), and Lord of the Rings requires a higher reading level (8th grade or higher). My Aunt would read Harry Potter to my cousins, but would pre-read the chapters and leave out some of the more...sad?, difficult? passages out. If pre-teens read the earlier books, yes, they may get caught up in the fantasy, but once they reach adolescence, they will realize it is just that, fantasy.

Also, just to point out, the article does NOT state that parents cannot or should not allow their parents to read Harry Potter books, but rather that they should make it clear that it is fiction and that practicing magic (not illusions for entertainment) is sinful.

 

[ToBeInChrist]

Also, just to point out, the article does NOT state that parents cannot or should not allow their parents to read Harry Potter books, but rather that they should make it clear that it is fiction and that practicing magic (not illusions for entertainment) is sinful.

I thought the article was useful as an example of a literary study of how these different series handled the subject, and how Harry Potter lacks most of the literary hedges that both Tolkein and Lewis used.

When considering how we should handle what the world calls entertainment, and how we should raise up our Children in God's way, we should consult the full counsel of Scripture. The opinions and recommendations found in such articles are not the word of God.

 

[FullyMT]

No, that's called panentheism.

No, I have noticed that God has created the world, and the sunset has helped me recognize God's existence and gradeur. I am not saying that God IS the sunset. I am not worshipping the sun. Rather, I am recognizing God's creation, and that God's beauty can be found in nature. Likewise, we can find God in a work of art or literature. We do not worship that thing, but rather come closer to God and the Gospel. Again, see the story of Augustine.

Sooooo....rather than reading the bible, we can watch movies full of and that glamourize witchcraft to find God? Hebrews 1 (that's in bible) says that in these last days, God has spoken to us through His Son, Jesus Christ.

So, do you read the newspaper, or watch the news? Do you listen to a pastor? If so, you are breaking your own rule. With my example, are you also saying that you would not allow your child to read from The Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings? If so, then I commend you on being consistent; if not, then there is, somewhere, a flaw in the logic.

We all deserve to go to hell. But thank God through Christ Jesus that He has provided the way for us to be forgiven of our sins and saved.

Amen!

Upon repentance and faith, both of which God grants to the contrite sinner. God also draws people to Himself.

Amen!

If someone is willfully doing something that is abominable to Him and lives a lifestyle of that sin (whether its done in ignorance or knowledge) without any intention of stopping and in fact celebrates that sin, then I think it'd be a fair assessment to say that he/she rejects Him.

Unless that person was never offered the gift of faith. If somebody full of hate is preaching the gospel to me, I'm probably not going to accept the gospel from that person. Faith is a gift from God, which God gives to whom He wishes. God, being just, would not judge somebody for something He has not given them (we may disagree on this point, and it is not the purpose of the thread, just throwing it out there).

 

[ToBeInChrist]

The more a work of literature is in accord with sound Scriptural counsel, and the more safeguards it has against the possibility of encouraging various sins and errors, the better.

The less a work of literature is in accord with sound Scriptural counsel, and the less safeguards it has against the possibility of encouraging various sins and errors, the more I'd have to be careful to guard my heart.

In any case, if I am seeking entertainment, it would be best if my heart was being entertained by something God loved, rather than by something that God hated.


"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" (Isaiah 5:20-21)

 

[FullyMT]

The more a work of literature is in accord with sound Scriptural counsel, and the more safeguards it has against the possibility of encouraging various sins and errors, the better.

The less a work of literature is in accord with sound Scriptural counsel, and the less safeguards it has against the possibility of encouraging various sins and errors, the more I'd have to be careful to guard my heart.

In any case, if I am seeking entertainment, it would be best if my heart was being entertained by something God loved, rather than by something that God hated.

Again, it's fiction. If you know that, and you are not tempted to practice magic (all of the magic in the books being impossible, since they require things that do not exist), then by all means. If you think it's going to tempt you to do something you shouldn't, then don't watch it. But, the movie and book series is not pure evil and does not need to be condemned as such. Those with the ability to recognize fiction from reality should have no problem with this.

 

[ToBeInChrist]

I'm trying to keep the following in mind, and to guard my heart, accordingly, that I would love what God loves, not to love sin or be entertained by sin.

Prov 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Psalm 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Matt.5.28 'But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.'

Matt.15.8 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me...'

Matt.15.18-19 'But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.'

 

[prophecyistrue]

It appears this is sort of the frog in the pot scenario, even in past TV shows we see the decline in morals, to where we are today. we have gone from bewitched, to full blown witches, and since the former was accepted as humorous and funny, nobody noticed the pot begin to boil, today TV glamorizes all types of sinfulness, from the days of I love Lucy, where they slept in separate beds, to now one bed with numerous lovers......and nobody notices the water getting hoter and hoter......even to the point where self proclaimed Christians defend hero's who participate in all forms of what God declares sinful and abominable, and detestable.......yes we all know there not real, there only fictional characters, I think anyone who has seen how television and books are slowly getting more depraved, more accepting of blatant condemned sinfulness, it becomes all to apparent, easier for the older crowd, completely hidden from younger folks, but the water is boiling right out of the pot, not sure why any Christian would prefer to stay

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between 'magic' and what Jesus did by healing people, turning water into wine, and coming back from the dead?