If Gods Law is Perfect, why is it called a curse if you cant keep it perfeclty?

[Steeno7]

I know people who personally do what Paul said he was able to do before he met Christ:

"I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." - Philippians 3:4-6

They do it with God's help. It's not hard.

There's no scripture about falling short of the law's demands.

IT's best to quote scripture exactly. You'll find it easier to do as God says if you follow HIS words exactly.

When we give OUR version of what we think scripture says, it gets a little muddled and misses God's true intent.

This is what has happened to the understanding of Paul's words.

We've muddled it very badly and have come up with something God never meant.

You mean the "righteousness" that comes through the Law and that Paul calls nothing more than a pile of stinkin' dung? Sure, you can have that.

Back to the question. You don't like "falling short", fine. How about perfectly? You know "many" who "keep the Law" perfectly??

 

[Steeno7]

Can you quote a scripture so we can examine what Jesus said word by word?

You mean you don't know the new commandment Jesus gave to Christians?? How can you then make a claim to know He never said anything new at all??

 

[Truthfrees]

You mean the "righteousness" that comes through the Law and that Paul calls nothing more than a pile of stinkin' dung? Sure, you can have that.

Back to the question. You don't like "falling short", fine. How about perfectly? You know "many" who "keep the Law" perfectly??

Can you quote a scripture and give it's address?

Let's deal with God's words, not our own.

We can fight all day about our own words, but we all have to bow a knee to God's words.

 

[Steeno7]

IF you guys want me to answer your questions, could you please do me the courtesy of answering mine?

Can you quote a scripture and give it's address?

Let's deal with God's words, not our own.

We can fight all day about our own words, but we all have to bow a knee to God's words.

We all have to bow a knee to He whom scripture testifies of, Jesus Christ.

John 13:34
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

 

[Truthfrees]

We all have to bow a knee to He whom scripture testifies of, Jesus Christ.

John 13:34
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

Awesome scripture.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." - John 13:34

Is that commandment really new?

"Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." - Leviticus 19:18

John says the love commandment is new but not new. Read 1 John 2:7-11 to see why an old commandment is now called new.

This kind of scripture study helps show why the Greek and Hebrew word "new" is really being made new, refreshed, renewed, coming alive.

Kinda like the difference between logos and rhema, letter of the law vs spirit of the law, etc.

Jesus never says the law is gone, or done away with, or even changed.

Jesus says to keep the law and teach others to keep the law. Matthew 5:19, Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42

"17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." -Matthew 5:17-19

 

[disciple1]

IF you guys want me to answer your questions, could you please do me the courtesy of answering mine?

Can you quote a scripture and give it's address?

Let's deal with God's words, not our own.

We can fight all day about our own words, but we all have to bow a knee to God's words.

I thought I'd post this again since it went over most peoples heads
Romans chapter 7 verse 4
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
Now what matters is what you do in love.

 

[Steeno7]

Awesome scripture.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." - John 13:34

Is that commandment really new?

"Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." - Leviticus 19:18

John says the love commandment is new but not new. Read 1 John 2:7-11 to see why an old commandment is now called new.

This kind of scripture study helps show why the Greek and Hebrew word "new" is really being made new, refreshed, renewed, coming alive.

Kinda like the difference between logos and rhema, letter of the law vs spirit of the law, etc.

Jesus never says the law is gone, or done away with, or even changed.

Jesus says to keep the law and teach others to keep the law. Matthew 5:19, Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42

"17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." -Matthew 5:17-19

Ummm, no. You missed what was new about it. Take off those blinders and look at it again. It’s not like it’s hidden.

 

[Truthfrees]

Ummm, no. You missed what was new about it. Take off those blinders and look at it again. It’s not like it’s hidden.

Gotta run. Be back later.

1 John 2:7-11
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

 

[Steeno7]

Can you quote a scripture and give it's address?

Let's deal with God's words, not our own.

We can fight all day about our own words, but we all have to bow a knee to God's words.

Those aren't my own words, if you knew your Bible you would know that.

The question is, You know "many" who "keep the Law" perfectly??

 

[Steeno7]

Gotta run. Be back later.

1 John 2:7-11
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Yep, there it is again. What is it that makes that commandment new??

 

[disciple1]

Gotta run. Be back later.

1 John 2:7-11
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
Romans chapter 7 verse 4
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
Now I think I'll go because now I see all who disagreed with the verses I posted are blind and they said it in because the darkness has blinded his eyes

 

[disciple1]

Yep, there it is again. What is it that makes that commandment new??

What do we do for these people they are blind from what I can find, how do you see it.
John chapter 3
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

[Steeno7]

What do we do for these people they are blind from what I can find, how do you see it.
John chapter 3
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

We can point them to Jesus.

 

[disciple1]

We can point them to Jesus.

John chapter 15 verse 20
Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

 

[Truthfrees]

How about we start here at the OP's primary question: "If Gods Law is Perfect, why is it called a curse if you cant keep it perfectly?"

PREAMBLE
This matches a few other questions. If we start here we can deal with several points 1 at a time, and end up discussing all the questions you each brought up.

IOW, I can prove EVERYTHING I've said with scripture, but right now we seem to be hopscotching all over the place in a shallow banter rather than a true deep scripture study.

Now, if we get into a true deep scripture discussion, you may be able to prove me wrong, which will cause me to change my mind. Nothing wrong with that. If I'm wrong, I'd like to correct my theology and get it right. It's also possible that I'll be able to prove you wrong.

I'm in no hurry to end this discussion. God's words are powerful. His laws are awesome, wise, profitable, good for training and godliness. A proper and deep understanding is important to us all.


MAY WE START HERE?
Show me a scripture that says you CAN'T keep the law perfectly?

Scripture says we DON'T keep the law because we don't want to. We want to do something different than what the law says. No surprise there, that's called the flesh, living by the flesh, etc.

But where's a scripture that says it's IMPOSSIBLE for everyone or anyone to keep the law blamelessly as Paul says he did before he met Jesus.

CF has an automatic Bible link to the ASV Bible, so if you at least write the address out properly, the whole scripture appears when you move the cursor over it.

MY EXPERIENCE
I know people who ARE keeping God's laws just as well as Paul said he was. I am learning to do the same as they are. All that stands in my way is LEARNING what God SAYS He wants us to do with food, Sabbath, morality, business, hygiene, sickness, crime, authorities, relationships, money, prayer, worship, etc, etc, etc:

"I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." - Philippians 3:4-6

So please show me a scripture that says what Paul claims to have done is AGAINST scripture.



PLAY NICE
Also, can we keep the discussion to the topic, not me. We're family, so please say nice things about me.

WEEKDAY DISCUSSION
I don't post on the weekends (late Friday afternoon-Sunday afternoon) because I choose to observe Shabbat like Jesus, Paul, and the other NT believers did. (Exodus 20:8, Deuteronomy 5:12, Matthew 24:20, Mark 1:21, Mark 1:32, Mark 6:2, Luke 4:16, Luke 6:6, Luke 13:10, Acts of the Apostles 13:14, Acts of the Apostles 13:42-44, Acts of the Apostles 16:13, Acts of the Apostles 17:2, Acts of the Apostles 18:4).

 

[Steeno7]

How about we start here at the OP's primary question: "If Gods Law is Perfect, why is it called a curse if you cant keep it perfectly?"

PREAMBLE
This matches a few other questions. If we start here we can deal with several points 1 at a time, and end up discussing all the questions you each brought up.

IOW, I can prove EVERYTHING I've said with scripture, but right now we seem to be hopscotching all over the place in a shallow banter rather than a true deep scripture study.

Now, if we get into a true deep scripture discussion, you may be able to prove me wrong, which will cause me to change my mind. Nothing wrong with that. If I'm wrong, I'd like to correct my theology and get it right. It's also possible that I'll be able to prove you wrong.

I'm in no hurry to end this discussion. God's words are powerful. His laws are awesome, wise, profitable, good for training and godliness. A proper and deep understanding is important to us all.


MAY WE START HERE?
Show me a scripture that says you CAN'T keep the law perfectly?

Scripture says we DON'T keep the law because we don't want to. We want to do something different than what the law says. No surprise there, that's called the flesh, living by the flesh, etc.

But where's a scripture that says it's IMPOSSIBLE for everyone or anyone to keep the law blamelessly as Paul says he did before he met Jesus.

CF has an automatic Bible link to the ASV Bible, so if you at least write the address out properly, the whole scripture appears when you move the cursor over it.

MY EXPERIENCE
I know people who ARE keeping God's laws just as well as Paul said he was. I am learning to do the same as they are. All that stands in my way is LEARNING what God SAYS He wants us to do with food, Sabbath, morality, business, hygiene, sickness, crime, authorities, relationships, money, prayer, worship, etc, etc, etc:

"I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." - Philippians 3:4-6

So please show me a scripture that says what Paul claims to have done is AGAINST scripture.



PLAY NICE
Also, can we keep the discussion to the topic, not me. We're family, so please say nice things about me.

WEEKDAY DISCUSSION
I don't post on the weekends (late Friday afternoon-Sunday afternoon) because I choose to observe Shabbat like Jesus, Paul, and the other NT believers did. (Exodus 20:8, Deuteronomy 5:12, Matthew 24:20, Mark 1:21, Mark 1:32, Mark 6:2, Luke 4:16, Luke 6:6, Luke 13:10, Acts of the Apostles 13:14, Acts of the Apostles 13:42-44, Acts of the Apostles 16:13, Acts of the Apostles 17:2, Acts of the Apostles 18:4).

That's not the way this works. We've already started, and you have questions asked of you that are still on the table that you need to address.

 

[disciple1]

How about we start here at the OP's primary question: "If Gods Law is Perfect, why is it called a curse if you cant keep it perfectly?"

PREAMBLE
This matches a few other questions. If we start here we can deal with several points 1 at a time, and end up discussing all the questions you each brought up.

IOW, I can prove EVERYTHING I've said with scripture, but right now we seem to be hopscotching all over the place in a shallow banter rather than a true deep scripture study.

Now, if we get into a true deep scripture discussion, you may be able to prove me wrong, which will cause me to change my mind. Nothing wrong with that. If I'm wrong, I'd like to correct my theology and get it right. It's also possible that I'll be able to prove you wrong.

I'm in no hurry to end this discussion. God's words are powerful. His laws are awesome, wise, profitable, good for training and godliness. A proper and deep understanding is important to us all.


MAY WE START HERE?
Show me a scripture that says you CAN'T keep the law perfectly?

Scripture says we DON'T keep the law because we don't want to. We want to do something different than what the law says. No surprise there, that's called the flesh, living by the flesh, etc.

But where's a scripture that says it's IMPOSSIBLE for everyone or anyone to keep the law blamelessly as Paul says he did before he met Jesus.

CF has an automatic Bible link to the ASV Bible, so if you at least write the address out properly, the whole scripture appears when you move the cursor over it.

MY EXPERIENCE
I know people who ARE keeping God's laws just as well as Paul said he was. I am learning to do the same as they are. All that stands in my way is LEARNING what God SAYS He wants us to do with food, Sabbath, morality, business, hygiene, sickness, crime, authorities, relationships, money, prayer, worship, etc, etc, etc:

"I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." - Philippians 3:4-6

So please show me a scripture that says what Paul claims to have done is AGAINST scripture.



PLAY NICE
Also, can we keep the discussion to the topic, not me. We're family, so please say nice things about me.

WEEKDAY DISCUSSION
I don't post on the weekends (late Friday afternoon-Sunday afternoon) because I choose to observe Shabbat like Jesus, Paul, and the other NT believers did. (Exodus 20:8, Deuteronomy 5:12, Matthew 24:20, Mark 1:21, Mark 1:32, Mark 6:2, Luke 4:16, Luke 6:6, Luke 13:10, Acts of the Apostles 13:14, Acts of the Apostles 13:42-44, Acts of the Apostles 16:13, Acts of the Apostles 17:2, Acts of the Apostles 18:4).

You want verses that show you can't keep the law perfectly here's two.
1 john chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point their guilty of breaking all of it.
So we're all guilty of every sin whether we've done them or not.
But I don't think I can help you, I think your blinded by the darkness as you've posted, I'm not saying that mean though, I just don't think I can help you.

 

[Hank77]

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." - John 13:34

Is that commandment really new?

"Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." - Leviticus 19:18

John says the love commandment is new but not new. Read 1 John 2:7-11 to see why an old commandment is now called new.

I would say that the commandment is older than Leviticus...much older.

Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Cain knew.

 

[Steeno7]

I would say that the commandment is older than Leviticus...much older.

Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Cain knew.

And I would say that you too have missed why it is New.

 

[Truthfrees]

You want verses that show you can't keep the law perfectly here's two.
1 john chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point their guilty of breaking all of it.
So we're all guilty of every sin whether we've done them or not.
But I don't think I can help you, I think your blinded by the darkness as you've posted, I'm not saying that mean though, I just don't think I can help you.

Awesome, thank you. Great scriptures.

1 John 1:8 is talking about sin.

IS breaking God's laws the ONLY way to sin?

I say this because Paul said he kept the law blamelessly, yet he also said he was a chief sinner. (Philippians 3:6, 1 Timothy 1:15)

This is what made me realize breaking the law must NOT be the only way to sin.

I went searching and found out what the Bible says SIN IS:

1. LAW BREAKING 1 John 3:4, 1 John 5:17. Breaking any commandment God gives.

2. REBELLING AGAINST GOD Deuteronomy 9:7, Joshua 1:8, Isaiah 14:12-15, Ezekiel 28:15, Ezekiel 20:8. Rebellion starts in the heart and may or may not act out, but God calls it sin from the first day it's discovered in the heart. Ezekiel 28:15

3. TURNING AWAY FROM GOD, FORSAKING GOD Hebrews 12:25, 2 Chronicles 12:5, 2 Chronicles 15:2, 2 Chronicles 24:24, 2 Chronicles 28:6, Jeremiah 2:13, Jeremiah 2:19, Jeremiah 17:13.

4. MISSING THE MARK Proverbs 10:5, Proverbs 24:9, James 4:17 This could be something as simple as talking too much, foolishness, not doing some good thing that you know you could do.

5. VIOLATING FAITH, ACTING WITHOUT FAITH Romans 14:23. God says acting without faith, or against faith is a sin. Why is that? I'm looking for the answer. Does anyone have the answer? Could it be because FAITH IS: "FAITH (a conviction that God exists and is the Creator and Ruler of all things, the Provider and Bestower of eternal salvation through Christ, and a leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness)." - Hebrews 13:7 AMP

Don't you think this is very interesting?

Don't you think this explains how Paul could say before he met Jesus he kept the law blamelessly AND could also say he was a chief sinner?

Isn't scripture a treasure trove of amazing wisdom, grace, and truth from God?

What are your thoughts on these various "sin" scriptures?