If God manifested himself, how would you know that it was God?

[Ken-1122]

A wrong hypothesis cannot ever be proven anyway, so what you hypothesize will not happen with true believers of God. Any error, to be recognized and corrected, needs to be counteracted by absolute truth. That is my answer.

So what absolute truth would it take for you to recognize that you were never a true believer of God; but were worshipping something else; a fraud all this time? And would you be willing to accept this "absolute truth"? Or would you reject the truth because you've invested too much of your life in a lie?

Ken

 

[WoundedDeep]

So what absolute truth would it take for you to recognize that you were never a true believer of God; but were worshipping something else; a fraud all this time? And would you be willing to accept this "absolute truth"? Or would you reject the truth because you've invested too much of your life in a lie?

Ken

I believe in the absolute oneness of truth. Lies can have many versions, but the truth only has one version. For something to be absolute truth, it must surpass everything else that claims to be truth and prove them completely false. Anything short of this will not convince me.

 

[Ken-1122]

I was an atheist and I was convinced later on by my experiences and the reality around me that God is who He claims to be in the Bible. Some people refuse to be convinced because they have pride or stubbornness in their heart. As much as God gives the ability to understand Him, God also does not forbid resistance to His counsel. No truth can be forced on someone in denial or stubbornness, and this is not God's fault.

You have not refuted my point. All I said was if God can do anything, he can convince a non believer of the truth. Now if the non believer chose to ignore, reject, or refuse to follow God, that is his choice; but he can be made aware of who God is assuming he existed.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

I believe in the absolute oneness of truth. Lies can have many versions, but the truth only has one version. For something to be absolute truth, it must surpass everything else that claims to be truth and prove them completely false. Anything short of this will not convince me.

And how are you supposed to recognize this "absolute oneness of truth" when you have been believing a lie all this time?

Ken

 

[lesliedellow]

"Science will explain it one day," is the central tenet of a new atheist's faith, and it would trump all, no matter what happened.

 

[Hezekiah Holbrooke]

Were it not the way it is, you would be very unhappy. You need something to gripe about and someone to blame in order to occupy your time.

 

[WoundedDeep]

You have not refuted my point. All I said was if God can do anything, he can convince a non believer of the truth. Now if the non believer chose to ignore, reject, or refuse to follow God, that is his choice; but he can be made aware of who God is assuming he existed.

Ken

God already offered that awareness through the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is now recorded in the biblical canons. There have not been a single men in history who did not become aware of God despite earnestly seeking to know Him. In fact, biblical accounts are full of records of non-Israelites who were considered believers because of faith. No doubt these people can't have faith without actively seeking the truth since they didn't even have Moses' Law or the OT.

 

[WoundedDeep]

And how are you supposed to recognize this "absolute oneness of truth" when you have been believing a lie all this time?

Ken

A lie will always be exposed as false, one day or another. Absolute truth will always stand the test of time and by testing it you will know it.

 

[Ken-1122]

God already offered that awareness through the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is now recorded in the biblical canons.

Those are just unsubstantiated claims with zero credibility.

There have not been a single men in history who did not become aware of God despite earnestly seeking to know Him.

Have you asked every man in history? Then how do you know this? More unsubstantiated claims with zero credibility.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

A lie will always be exposed as false, one day or another. Absolute truth will always stand the test of time and by testing it you will know it.

So when your lie has been exposed as false, how are you supposed to recognize the truth? What system do you use to verify what you are being told is the truth?

Ken

 

[RDKirk]

So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?

He would speak the words of Jesus, do the deeds of Jesus, and give all glory to the Father like Jesus.

 

[RDKirk]

You have not refuted my point. All I said was if God can do anything, he can convince a non believer of the truth. Now if the non believer chose to ignore, reject, or refuse to follow God, that is his choice; but he can be made aware of who God is assuming he existed.

Ken

Interestingly, scripture indicates that if a person truly does not want to believe, God then gives him what he wants: An utterly convincing delusion.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Those are just unsubstantiated claims with zero credibility.


Have you asked every man in history? Then how do you know this? More unsubstantiated claims with zero credibility.

Ken

My claims are in fact substantiated.

1) For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. (Romans 1:20)

2) You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:13)

3) The LORD is good to those who wait for Him, to the soul that seeks Him. (Lamentations 3:25)

4) No foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD should say," The LORD will exclude me from His people"; and the eunuch should not say," Look, I am a dried-up tree." For the LORD says this:
“For the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
and choose what pleases Me,
and hold firmly to My covenant,
I will give them, in My house and within My walls,
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters.
I will give each of them an everlasting name
that will never be cut off.
And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD
minister to Him, love the name of Yahweh
and become His servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold firmly to My covenant —
I will bring them to My holy mountaing
and let them rejoice in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be acceptable on My altar,
for My house will be called a house of prayer
for all nations.” (Isaiah 56:3-7)

Edit: Let me therefore add that God has never hidden Himself from men. Those who are diligent and sincere in trying to know who He is will not be rejected. It has been God's stance since OT even to non-Israelites, it remains so that God rewards those who seek Him with all their hearts.

 

[Ken-1122]

Interestingly, scripture indicates that if a person truly does not want to believe, God then gives him what he wants: An utterly convincing delusion.

we were talking about if God is capable of convincing a skeptic of his existence; not about if someone refuses to believe or not.

k

 

[Achilles6129]

He would speak the words of Jesus, do the deeds of Jesus, and give all glory to the Father like Jesus.

Wouldn't a false Christ (Mt. 24:24) also do that?

 

[Achilles6129]

we were talking about if God is capable of convincing a skeptic of his existence; not about if someone refuses to believe or not.

I think that it's ultimately impossible to convince anyone of anything because there's always an alternate explanation, so no matter how much evidence is given it just wouldn't matter. People could claim that it was an alien with super-advanced technology that we just couldn't understand or something like that and no-one would be able to refute it.

So you can't be convinced by something through the five senses. The convincing has to come from the inside.

 

[Achilles6129]

I don't think you could know it was God.

I would certainly agree that externally it's quite possible that there would be no way to tell.

It wouldn't be able to prove it created the universe, but if it can seem omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and good, then does it matter if it made the universe?

An alien race with incredibly advanced technology could come across as all of those things. Actually, it's quite possible to interpret the Bible as mankind's encounter with extra-terrestrials (I don't do this, obviously).

If there is a God, is religious reverence right, or should God be considered fundamentally our equal? I think the latter might be best.

I guess that depends on your point of view.

 

[bhsmte]

I think that it's ultimately impossible to convince anyone of anything because there's always an alternate explanation, so no matter how much evidence is given it just wouldn't matter. People could claim that it was an alien with super-advanced technology that we just couldn't understand or something like that and no-one would be able to refute it.

So you can't be convinced by something through the five senses. The convincing has to come from the inside.

For some at least:

When one explanation has enough evidence to support it, the other explanations tend to be given less credence.

 

[juvenissun]

I disagree! If God knows all things; he will know what it will take to convince an atheist, a skeptic, or any doubter of who he is. If he is unable to do that; why call him God???

K

You are not arguing on the issue of the OP.

 

[quatona]

So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

What do you mean - "God"?